Prospect Info: Team Board Mock Draft

[majormajor]

Fans never put much stock into the risk factor since they have no real skin in the game.

That and there's a strong tendency to overestimate how easy it is to improve consistency of work ethic and drive, or rather an underestimation of just how much work ethic and drive you need to become a great NHLer. For example, suppose there are two long-term projects with somewhat similar scoring results at lower levels:

player A is a consistent effort guy with some sloppiness in his puck handling and needs a lot of refinement.

player B is more of a natural talent, can score in bunches, but also takes a lot of games off.

Who will be the better NHLer? Considering that both have a long way to go, you go with the guy with the most capacity for self-improvement. It's a little bit different at the very top of the draft. Lafreniere for example also takes games off. He's also already good enough to be a high-end NHL talent. Gunler isn't. Gunler's evaluation would rest more on whether his inconsistencies are being exaggerated somewhat, and I can't speak to that.

 

[Edge]

That and there's a strong tendency to overestimate how easy it is to improve consistency of work ethic and drive, or rather an underestimation of just how much work ethic and drive you need to become a great NHLer. For example, suppose there are two long-term projects with somewhat similar scoring results at lower levels:

player A is a consistent effort guy with some sloppiness in his puck handling and needs a lot of refinement.

player B is more of a natural talent, can score in bunches, but also takes a lot of games off.

Who will be the better NHLer? Considering that both have a long way to go, you go with the guy with the most capacity for self-improvement. It's a little bit different at the very top of the draft. Lafreniere for example also takes games off. He's also already good enough to be a high-end NHL talent. Gunler isn't. Gunler's evaluation would rest more on whether his inconsistencies are being exaggerated somewhat, and I can't speak to that.

Player B is also how I classified Bourque in our board mock draft.

 

[Trxjw]

That and there's a strong tendency to overestimate how easy it is to improve consistency of work ethic and drive, or rather an underestimation of just how much work ethic and drive you need to become a great NHLer. For example, suppose there are two long-term projects with somewhat similar scoring results at lower levels:

player A is a consistent effort guy with some sloppiness in his puck handling and needs a lot of refinement.

player B is more of a natural talent, can score in bunches, but also takes a lot of games off.

Who will be the better NHLer? Considering that both have a long way to go, you go with the guy with the most capacity for self-improvement. It's a little bit different at the very top of the draft. Lafreniere for example also takes games off. He's also already good enough to be a high-end NHL talent. Gunler isn't. Gunler's evaluation would rest more on whether his inconsistencies are being exaggerated somewhat, and I can't speak to that.

Very well said.

 

[NYR425]

Helge Grans outproduced Boqvist, Broberg and Söderström at the same age and is a big defenceman mostly praised for his defensive ability. He will go top 20 for sure and is a good contender here. Went Gunler for scoring upside though.

This is from Redline Report. he is their #77 Ranked Prospect

Helge Grans — Malmö Jrs. RD
Slick skating Swedish d-man had an up and down season with mixed performances. Played his best against men in the SHL, where he looked poised and determined. Loves to handle the puck and skate with it. Can make brilliant home run passes through the neutral zone. Smooth skater for his size and covers lots of ice in a single stride. Sometimes plays soft in own zone and seems not to care. During his SHL stint was so much more engaged - finished checks and showed a willingness to battle hard to win the physical battles. In juniors, he relied on stripping the puck away instead of using the body. Gambles a lot in the passing game and times his own attacks badly, either losing the puck in vulnerable areas or ending up in the corner. Has a nice package of size, strength and physical ability that he needs to start using more effectively and consistently. Must raise his effort level.
Projection: Skilled puckhandling, mistake prone 3rd pair.
Style compares: Mike Matheson

 

[Hasbro]

Would anyone not voting for Grieg or Gunler please change their vote for their choice of the 2, so we can avoid taking time on a run off?

 

[AB13]

This is from Redline Report. he is their #77 Ranked Prospect

Helge Grans — Malmö Jrs. RD
Slick skating Swedish d-man had an up and down season with mixed performances. Played his best against men in the SHL, where he looked poised and determined. Loves to handle the puck and skate with it. Can make brilliant home run passes through the neutral zone. Smooth skater for his size and covers lots of ice in a single stride. Sometimes plays soft in own zone and seems not to care. During his SHL stint was so much more engaged - finished checks and showed a willingness to battle hard to win the physical battles. In juniors, he relied on stripping the puck away instead of using the body. Gambles a lot in the passing game and times his own attacks badly, either losing the puck in vulnerable areas or ending up in the corner. Has a nice package of size, strength and physical ability that he needs to start using more effectively and consistently. Must raise his effort level.
Projection: Skilled puckhandling, mistake prone 3rd pair.
Style compares: Mike Matheson

He is being heavily underrated by them. He can definately be a top pairing guy if he reaches his potential and there is no way he doesn’t go in the first.

 

[Hasbro]

Win for Grieg. Thanks everyone and extra thanks for breaking the tie.

 

[eco's bones]

He is being heavily underrated by them. He can definately be a top pairing guy if he reaches his potential and there is no way he doesn’t go in the first.

From what I've seen from various media or video scouting reports Grans seems to be all over the map. There are absolutely some who see him as 1st round material but there are also some that would put him in the 2nd or 3rd. I would probably put him and Wallinder somewhere between 25 and 35. My tiers of defensemen go kind of like this: Drysdale, Sanderson/Guhle, Schneider//Grans, O'Rourke, Wallinder, Kuznetsov// but then there are guys like Andrae, Niemela, Jurmo, Kleven, Faber, Powell, Barron, Hunt who could possibly jump into the mix as well as Poirier and Cormier who I would avoid altogether but someone will probably take at least by the mid-third.

 

[AB13]

From what I've seen from various media or video scouting reports Grans seems to be all over the map. There are absolutely some who see him as 1st round material but there are also some that would put him in the 2nd or 3rd. I would probably put him and Wallinder somewhere between 25 and 35. My tiers of defensemen go kind of like this: Drysdale, Sanderson/Guhle, Schneider//Grans, O'Rourke, Wallinder, Kuznetsov// but then there are guys like Andrae, Niemela, Jurmo, Kleven, Faber, Powell, Barron, Hunt who could possibly jump into the mix as well as Poirier and Cormier who I would avoid altogether but someone will probably take at least by the mid-third.

Swedish tv experts made a ranking that had Grans in the top 10, ahead of Sanderson, which was interesting ( I would not take him top 10). I would have Drysdale at 5, followed by Sanderson in at about 8-10, Grans shortly after than, then I would have Wallinder, Guhle, Andrae , Barron, and Schneider going from 15 to the late first. I don't know much about O´Rourke but he seems interesting too, but I have not watched any footage of him. Overall it seems like a bad year for defencemen, one of the worst in a really long time.

Why are you so high on Guhle? He seems to have very limited offensive upside and I am not sure about him being better defensively than the likes of Barron, Schneider,Wallinder and Grans. I have not seen anything of the CHL defencemen other than a draft dynasty video and a few international tournament games though.

I think Andrae might have the highest offensive upside of any defenseman in the class, his skill level and creativity is extremely impressive but his size and skating will be held against him by scouts.

 

[nyr2k2]

You all have now slept on Brisson twice. LOL.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

You all have now slept on Brisson twice. LOL.

Pornman's 7 round mock has him going to us at 22

full mock for NYR:

1: Alexis Lafreniere, LW, Rimouski-QMJHL
22: Brendan Brisson, C, Chicago-USHL
72: Ian Moore, D, St. Mark’s-US High School
92: Joel Blomqvist, G, Karpat-Jr. A. Liiga
103: Ryder Rolston, RW, Waterloo-USHL
134: Jacob Flynn, D, Connecticut-Hockey East
165: Artem Shlaine, C, Shattuck St. Mary’s-US High School
196: Pavel Gogolev, LW, Guelph-OHL
197: Reid Valade, RW, Kithchener-OHL
206: Elliot Ekmark, C, Linkoping-J20 SuperElit

 

[nyr2k2]

Pornman's 7 round mock has him going to us at 22

It's a smart pick. We talk about the disconnect between fans and front office-types and scouts when it comes to players--I have reason to believe Brisson is viewed higher by teams than by fans. I honestly wouldn't be at all surprised to see him gone by 22. We missed the boat in not taking Drury when he was there and I think, while not quite as polished in the defensive zone, Brisson is similar in terms of overall upside. And I really think he stays at C. I would be surprised if he makes it out of the first round and I think 22 is not an unreasonable spot to grab him.

 

[Mac n Gs]

You all have now slept on Brisson twice. LOL.

Do you have the Redline Report on him? I'm curious where they ranked him and what they view his ceiling as

 

[nyr2k2]

Do you have the Redline Report on him? I'm curious where they ranked him and what they view his ceiling as

I do not. Some rankings have him 30-40, but others have him higher--EP has him 14, TSN/Button at 22, McKeen's at 21, and EP's Consolidated Ranking is has him 23. I think it's a good spot for him. As I said in our board's mock, at 22 I think he's a good value. He has serious upside and I like him more than Bourque, who IDK if he'll stay at C and has those compete questions.

 

[Thirty One]

Red Line has Brisson 45.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

It's a smart pick. We talk about the disconnect between fans and front office-types and scouts when it comes to players--I have reason to believe Brisson is viewed higher by teams than by fans. I honestly wouldn't be at all surprised to see him gone by 22. We missed the boat in not taking Drury when he was there and I think, while not quite as polished in the defensive zone, Brisson is similar in terms of overall upside. And I really think he stays at C. I would be surprised if he makes it out of the first round and I think 22 is not an unreasonable spot to grab him.

I can totally see Brisson as the pick if they feel there's a tier and they want the center due to the position.

But I think the rest of us have focused on either a) Holloway/Greig for their style of play or b) Bourque/Gunler simply for liking them better as the high-end skill play.

Think it's as simple as that.

 

[Ghost of jas]

It's a smart pick. We talk about the disconnect between fans and front office-types and scouts when it comes to players--I have reason to believe Brisson is viewed higher by teams than by fans. I honestly wouldn't be at all surprised to see him gone by 22. We missed the boat in not taking Drury when he was there and I think, while not quite as polished in the defensive zone, Brisson is similar in terms of overall upside. And I really think he stays at C. I would be surprised if he makes it out of the first round and I think 22 is not an unreasonable spot to grab him.

Some of us are going by the information that we’ve gotten regarding the players the Rangers are said to like. Brisson has not come up as a name that has been connected to the Rangers.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Some of us are going by the information that we’ve gotten regarding the players the Rangers are said to like. Brisson has not come up as a name that has been connected to the Rangers.

Yeah, Pronman's the only one I've read who's mentioned his name as one he's heard tied to the Rangers... and then immediately goes on to say, "I’m skeptical of Brisson here because an undersized player with average skating and elite skill isn’t a typical high Rangers pick."

 

[Leetch3]

RLR calls Brisson the most overrated prospect...(also one of the best pure skaters) so they aren't fans

Black Book rates him an A and ranks him 19th with elite hockey sense and excellent skill...but says his skating is average and a concern.

kind of odd to see such drastically different views on his skate? maybe even more odd that the one that thinks his skating isn't great is the one that likes him more

 

[nyr2k2]

Some of us are going by the information that we’ve gotten regarding the players the Rangers are said to like. Brisson has not come up as a name that has been connected to the Rangers.

Yeah, not criticizing, but I don't get my insider information from anyone on the board here (with certain very specific exceptions). So I guess that's the disconnect.

 

[eco's bones]

Swedish tv experts made a ranking that had Grans in the top 10, ahead of Sanderson, which was interesting ( I would not take him top 10). I would have Drysdale at 5, followed by Sanderson in at about 8-10, Grans shortly after than, then I would have Wallinder, Guhle, Andrae , Barron, and Schneider going from 15 to the late first. I don't know much about O´Rourke but he seems interesting too, but I have not watched any footage of him. Overall it seems like a bad year for defencemen, one of the worst in a really long time.

Why are you so high on Guhle? He seems to have very limited offensive upside and I am not sure about him being better defensively than the likes of Barron, Schneider,Wallinder and Grans. I have not seen anything of the CHL defenc
emen other than a draft dynasty video and a few international tournament games though.

I think Andrae might have the highest offensive upside of any defenseman in the class, his skill level and creativity is extremely impressive but his size and skating will be held against him by scouts.

Actually I think Guhle, Grans and Wallinder have a lot in common--they all are big, good skaters, skilled but at the same they're raw--all putting their games together but pretty much about the same ceiling.

But as far as why I'm high on Guhle? Basically because there's more positive noise being made over here in North America than for Grans or Wallinder. But again they're a bit all over the map. I know the Hockey News had both Wallinder and Grans in their top 15. The Black Book has Wallinder at 45 and Grans at 65.

All that said I don't really see the need for the Rangers to draft a d-man at 22 unless that d-man is clearly better than all the forwards and I don't see that happening. The only two that I'd consider that way would be Sanderson and Drysdale.

 

[NYR425]

45. Brendan Brisson — Chicago LC

One of this year’s meteoric risers in our rankings. Gets pucks onto linemates’ tape for grade A scoring chances or finishes plays off himself. Competes at a high level and is just as effective without the puck as he is with it – an asset in all three zones. Terrific skater with east-west agility, breakaway acceleration and a top-end separation gear. Processes the game quickly and always plays with a great up-tempo pace. Thinks a step ahead, anticipates developing plays and goes to where the puck will be two seconds from now. Versatile and shifty; can power down with the puck on his hip and make opponents miss with elusive hands and ability to maintain possession through traffic. Size isn’t ideal but plays a big game and doesn’t shy away from the hard areas.
Projection: Speedy 2nd line centre for middle tier club.
Style compares to: Cam Atkinson

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

speak of the devil