Speculation: Taylor Hall contract talk (part II)

[NJDevs26]

So was Larsson, if you recall.

Larsson was never deemed as untouchable. He was unlikely to be dealt because he'd just signed an extension and because of the state of our D, it took something extraordinary to do it - Hall with four years of control was that. You can't possibly compare Hall with four years left (and four years younger) to Hall with .5 years left on his deal about to get a big payday though.

If you're hanging your hat on Hall signing an extension with the team that acquires him, sure that ups his value in theory but also probably limits the number of teams he would do that with 'if' he does it at all.

 

[Emperoreddy]

All signs point to Hall testing free agency as well. The team he is traded to should have the upper hand, especially if they have the space, but you simply are not getting a Stone situation here.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Hypothetically what would it take to actually get Byram? Starting with Hall for Byram 1 for 1? What do we need to add?

Perhaps Gusev if Colorado likes him.

Still maybe he's not as untouchable as people think. His point and goal totals are way down from last year and Makar is exceeding expectations.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I'm honestly not trying to be a prick

but can we please, PLEASE stop with the Byram stuff? That isn't even realistic. Unless you plan on adding something like Ty Smith to Hall.

 

[Tretyak 20]

Hilarious that Avs fans make every valuable asset "untouchable" and leave us to choose from the ~30th overall pick and some fringe prospects that may never become full time players. I'm assuming Sakic is more educated on the cost of an elite player, otherwise I would shop elsewhere. I have no interest in some grab bag combo of the Avs' late 2020 1st, Timmins, Kaut, or a 2nd round pick.

I understand Byram being untouchable for a rental (unless we add), but players like Zadorov and Newhook absolutely have to be on the table as part of a package.

That's my point. Fans love declaring this or that player untouchable, but I doubt it works that way.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

I'm honestly not trying to be a prick

but can we please, PLEASE stop with the Byram stuff? That isn't even realistic. Unless you plan on adding something like Ty Smith to Hall.

His point totals are down significantly. His goal scoring rate, which is what caused him to rise so far last year, is down even more. He's on pace for something like 10-12 goals where last year he had 26. Plus Cale Makar is playing like Scott Neidermayer right now.

Other than the fact that he was drafted fourth overall, which was almost found money for them to begin with, there is nothing about him that screams untouchable. Like tomorrow he could announce that he's quitting hockey and becoming a Tibtean monk and the Avalanche would be an organization that is still very much in great shape.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

His point totals are down significantly. His goal scoring rate, which is what caused him to rise so far last year, is down even more. He's on pace for something like 10-12 goals where last year he had 26. Plus Cale Makar is playing like Scott Neidermayer right now.

Other than the fact that he was drafted fourth overall, which was almost found money for them to begin with, there is nothing about him that screams untouchable. Like tomorrow he could announce that he's quitting hockey and becoming a Tibtean monk and the Avalanche would be an organization that is still very much in great shape.

I mean...using a completely ridiculous example that would NEVER happen to prove a point is silly...

 

[Setec Astronomy]

I mean...using a completely ridiculous example that would NEVER happen to prove a point is silly...

The point is that if he didn't get traded but never plays a game for the Avalanche for whatever reason, they would still be in great shape. If you need a reason for that happening that isn't facetitous, like he gets badly hurt (Olli Joellevi so it's not "completely ridiculous) then I just gave you one.

The point is that he isn't the surefire next Niklas Lidstrom and the future of the Avalanche organization is not riding on him. That is the sort of situation where a team could make that kind of deal.

 

[217 Forever]

The point is that if he didn't get traded but never plays a game for the Avalanche for whatever reason, they would still be in great shape. If you need a reason for that happening that isn't facetitous, like he gets badly hurt (Olli Joellevi so it's not "completely ridiculous) then I just gave you one.

The point is that he isn't the surefire next Niklas Lidstrom and the future of the Avalanche organization is not riding on him. That is the sort of situation where a team could make that kind of deal.

Teams still don't tend to give away highly rated prospects "just because they can" essentially.

 

[Blackjack]

Whatever ends up being possible, from the Friedman article it looks like Shero is trying to get the right pieces - top D prospects and 1st round picks. There are a bunch of teams interested, just gotta be patient and get the best deal possible. Shero is a really good trader, so forget Stone, Duchene, etc, each deal is unique.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Teams still don't tend to give away highly rated prospects "just because they can" essentially.

'
They would be getting Taylor Hall for a Stanley Cup run.

 

[NJDevs26]

Teams still don't tend to give away highly rated prospects "just because they can" essentially.

Well it depends on what team you're referring to. Sakic comes off to me as a lot more cerebral and patient than most fans. If you're talking about someone who's always in win-now mode (whoever hockey's equivalent of Dave Dombrowski is, trading every single prospect under the sun) that's another story.

 

[Blackjack]

'
They would be getting Taylor Hall for a Stanley Cup run.

I happen to agree that Colorado is well-enough positioned to win a cup that a deal including Byram might actually be possible, but keep in mind that it's been a long time since a price like that has been paid for a UFA, and Colorado fans feel about Byram the same way we feel about guys like Hischier and Hughes.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Just an FYI, but I don’t think any Avs fans think Newhook or Zadorov are untouchable.

I think some fans don’t want to move Zadorov because it simply creates another problem.

Newhook was mintly drafted and is player very well. Most Avs fans simply believe Sakic wouldn’t make the trade if he needed to be included.

It’s more a matter of not making sense. Not Avs fans declaring untouchable status.

 

[AfroThunder396]

If Ray manages to get Byram for Hall I'll buy a plane ticket to NJ, Uber to the arena, give him a handy in front of the Marty statue, and then walk back home to Florida.

I'll tell my friends I just went to the movies, but they'll all know I was lying.

 

[Blackjack]

Well it depends on what team you're referring to. Sakic comes off to me as a lot more cerebral and patient than most fans. If you're talking about someone who's always in win-now mode (whoever hockey's equivalent of Dave Dombrowski is, trading every single prospect under the sun) that's another story.

Sakic is patient, but I have to imagine he senses the opportunity here. Letting Hall go to another team could literally cost them a Stanley Cup. Not that that necessarily means he'd trade Byram, but even Newhook would be a bonanza.

 

[Ararana]

Hilarious that Avs fans make every valuable asset "untouchable" and leave us to choose from the ~30th overall pick and some fringe prospects that may never become full time players. I'm assuming Sakic is more educated on the cost of an elite player, otherwise I would shop elsewhere. I have no interest in some grab bag combo of the Avs' late 2020 1st, Timmins, Kaut, or a 2nd round pick.

I understand Byram being untouchable for a rental (unless we add), but players like Zadorov and Newhook absolutely have to be on the table as part of a package.

Avs fan coming in peace. You're right Avs fans can't sit here and say all our prospects are untouchable, because they're not. HFboards uses 'untouchable' way too much. McDavid is untouchable. If Sakic feels he could get Hall to sign and Sakic wanted him that badly I wouldn't be surprised to see any of Zadorov, Timmins, or Newhook in conversations.

According to both your Athletic beat writer and ours, NJ has been scouting the Eagles for weeks now. With Kaut and Bowers injured Timmins is really the only prospect worth a damn on that roster right now. My spidey senses are telling me Shero is eying Timmins.

Hypothetically what would it take to actually get Byram? Starting with Hall for Byram 1 for 1? What do we need to add?

If I'm Sakic the only thing in New Jersey that gets me to trade Byram right now is J. Hughes and that's a nonsense thought. J. Hughes and B. Byram were just selected three spots apart. Both teams were over the moon when they made their picks, they're not moving either of those players anytime soon.

Not trying to be a dick, just trying to meet you guys in the middle here. Avs fans can't sit here and say every prospect we have that has value is untouchable and at the same time you can't honestly expect Colorado to trade their brand new shiny top 4 pick, who just happens to be the best defensive prospect in hockey.

 

[Blackjack]

Just an FYI, but I don’t think any Avs fans think Newhook or Zadorov are untouchable.

I think some fans don’t want to move Zadorov because it simply creates another problem.

Newhook was mintly drafted and is player very well. Most Avs fans simply believe Sakic wouldn’t make the trade if he needed to be included.

It’s more a matter of not making sense. Not Avs fans declaring untouchable status.

The Zadorov thing never made sense to me, nothing against the player, just seems like he'd have more value to Colorado than NJ. Newhook makes sense, but I agree that it's an unusually high price to pay for a rental.

 

[217 Forever]

Well it depends on what team you're referring to. Sakic comes off to me as a lot more cerebral and patient than most fans. If you're talking about someone who's always in win-now mode (whoever hockey's equivalent of Dave Dombrowski is, trading every single prospect under the sun) that's another story.

I'll rephrase it. Most teams don't tend to trade (not give) away highly rated prospects just because they can spare him.

 

[Blackjack]

If I'm Sakic the only thing in New Jersey that gets me to trade Byram right now is J. Hughes and that's a nonsense thought. J. Hughes and B. Byram were just selected three spots apart. Both teams were over the moon when they made their picks, they're not moving either of those players anytime soon.

Not trying to be a dick, just trying to meet you guys in the middle here. Avs fans can't sit here and say every prospect we have that has value is untouchable and at the same time you can't honestly expect Colorado to trade their brand new shiny top 4 pick, who just happens to be the best defensive prospect in hockey.

That's fair, we're just dreaming over here. Timmins and Newhook both seem like fantastic pieces if Shero was able to swing them.