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Taylor Hall and Matt Duchene- Team Killers?

Wandering Cynic

Wandering Cynic

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Dec 2, 2011
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Both Hall and Duchene have played on several different teams, and the acquisition of both players have seemingly tanked every single franchise that they are a part of.

Hall:
Oilers- The team is a tire-fire when he is on the team, and suddenly makes the playoffs the year after he leaves.
Devils- Two first overall picks in the four years he was on the team. They had a horrendous start to this year as well.
Coyotes- The team has started to struggle after acquiring him in a trade.

Duchene:
Avalanche- The Avs were struggling mightily with Duchene for several years. MacKinnon didn't really break out until Duchene was traded.
Senators- Eastern Conference Finalists the year before they added Duchene. They suddenly collapse as soon as he joins the team.
Blue Jackets- They added Duchene at the deadline, made the playoffs, and were a second-round exit to the Bruins. They lost their top stars (Panarin, Bobrovsky), and are 7th in the Metro Division as of this post.
Predators- They were a top-end team for several years, and they have struggled in the first half of this season as well. They don't seem like the team that was feared in years past.

Is this some sort of fluke, or is there a reason behind all of this?
 
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Wandering Cynic said:
Both Hall and Duchene have played on several different teams, and the acquisition of both players have seemingly tanked every single franchise that they are a part of.

Hall:
Oilers- The team is a tire-fire when he is on the team, and suddenly makes the playoffs the year after he leaves.
Devils- Two first overall picks in the four years he was on the team. They had a horrendous start to this year as well.
Coyotes- The team has started to struggle after acquiring him in a trade.

Duchene:
Avalanche- The Avs were struggling mightily with Duchene for several years. MacKinnon didn't really break out until Duchene was traded.
Senators- Eastern Conference Finalists the year before they added Duchene. They suddenly collapse as soon as he joins the team.
Blue Jackets- They added Duchene at the deadline, made the playoffs, and were a second-round exit to the Bruins. They lost their top stars (Panarin, Bobrovsky), and are 7th in the Metro Division as of this post.
Predators- They were a top-end team for several years, and they have struggled in the first half of this season as well. They don't seem like the team that was feared in years past.

Is this some sort of fluke, or is there a reason behind all of this?
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You forgot O'Reilly. He was a huge part of that sucky Avs team as well and him being a huge malcontent led to the Sabres picking Dahlin at #1.
I am sure Sabres fans are really glad that they got a late 1st for that cancer....



So yeah. Your whole post is bogus. There is a case for Hall and Duchene not being the type of players you should want to build your team around. But its not their fault that a bunch of crappy teams couldn't build even a half decent roster to support them.
Also Duchene helped sweep what might have been the best regular season team of the last decade a few months ago. So he certainly can work on a good team.

There is an argument for Hall and Duchene not being great guys to have in your lockerroom on a faltering roster/franchise. They might both be overrated in general. But they certainly are not the reason for all of these teams being crappy. That falls on the respective GMs....
 
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JoemAvs said:
You forgot O'Reilly. He was a huge part of that sucky Avs team as well and him being a huge malcontent led to the Sabres picking Dahlin at #1.
I am sure Sabres fans are really glad that they got a late 1st for that cancer....



So yeah. Your whole post is bogus. There is a case for Hall and Duchene not being the type of players you should want to build your team around. But its not their fault that a bunch of crappy teams couldn't build even a half decent roster to support them.
Also Duchene helped sweep what might have been the best regular season team of the last decade a few months ago. So he certainly can work on a good team.

There is an argument for Hall and Duchene not being great guys to have in your lockerroom on a faltering roster/franchise. They might both be overrated in general. But they certainly are not the reason for all of these teams being crappy. That falls on the respective GMs....
Click to expand...

The mistake isn't in supporting Hall and Duchene. The mistake is thinking they're people to build around instead of scoring roleplayers you need at the right time who you lose to free agency after you have made your run.

Nobody was building around RJ Umberger but he was a key piece of a Flyers run to the ECF back in 2007. Nobody was building around Brian Campbell but he was a key piece of a few runs. Taylor Hall and Matt Duchene are slightly better versions of that type of a player. A scoring roleplayer.

Are they more talented? Sure. But then again so is Robbie Schremp.
 
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Daxi said:
The mistake isn't in supporting Hall and Duchene. The mistake is thinking they're people to build around instead of scoring roleplayers you need at the right time who you lose to free agency after you have made your run.

Nobody was building around RJ Umberger but he was a key piece of a Flyers run to the ECF back in 2007. Nobody was building around Brian Campbell but he was a key piece of a few runs. Taylor Hall and Matt Duchene are slightly better versions of that type of a player. A scoring roleplayer.

Are they more talented? Sure. But then again so is Robbie Schremp.
Click to expand...

I think scoring roleplayers is too negative.
They just shouldn't be your #1 option on offense.
Duchene was on the Avs. Only after he left Mac took over and exploded and Rants emerged. He also was on the Sens. He had success once he played with a better player in Panarin. Now he is arguably again the best forward depending on how you feel about Filip Forsberg and its again not looking great.

Hall was the #1 option on Edmonton till he got traded and 2nd year McD took the reigns. He clearly was the #1 on the Devils and now is the best forward on the Yotes. And again its not really working.

The truth is that these guys should be your second or third best forward if you want to contend. But all the teams have tried to make them the #1 option and it mostly hasn't worked. But thats not really on them (although I am not sure Hall/Duchene would accept that which might hurt my case). Its on their GMs for putting them into that position in the first place. Avs were a mess until Roy quit and Sakic took over, Edmonton were and are still a mess until Holland proves otherwise, the Devils clearly were not ready to be a good team when the Hall for Larsson deal fell into their lap and they couldn't say no, Ottawa got Melnyk'd hard and Dorion is a great scout but not a great GM, the Yotes were relying on out of the world goaltending to cover up their flaws and now Kuemper is out and Nashville simply is getting old (especially Rinne which is a huge issue) and their coach might have outlived his usefulness.

None of that is the fault of Duchene or Hall.
Pretty sure if the Avs or Oilers would have traded them to the Bruins, Pens or Caps the first time they got moved, we wouldn't have this conversation right now.
 
JoemAvs said:
There is a case for Hall and Duchene not being the type of players you should want to build your team around. But its not their fault that a bunch of crappy teams couldn't build even a half decent roster to support them
Click to expand...
All that needs to be said here really.
 
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Nashville is 3 points out with 3 games in hand they are not done yet. But these guys seem to lead you to right where you are. No big deal, ups and downs like everyone else other than the small handful of the who’s Who
 
...and the Oilers are a tire fire missing secondary scoring again. Thinking that moving Hall for Larsson got the Oilers to the playoffs was obtuse in 2017 and it's just pathetic now.

JoeThorntonsRooster said:


Do you sincerely believe that Taylor Hall has a severe negative influence on his team’s goal share when he isn’t on the ice?

Does anybody sincerely believe this ****, for that matter?
Click to expand...

I'm going to put this quote here from a different Hall bashing thread.

If you think Hall is a team killer you're being ignorant (and I say this as an Oilers fan).
 
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Well, let's actually look at things.

Avalanche sucked before he got there and sucked mostly while he was there.

Traded to Ottawa. Yes, the sens were a goal away from the cup finals, but that team was trash and they played like their true selves the next season.

Columbus was expected to be eliminated in 3 games against Tampa, but won.

Nashville wasn't really good last year and they're still not really all that good.

Nashville made the cup finals, but let's look at the teams they played.

Chicago - very impressive sweep with only 3 goals against, but Chicago hasn't made the playoffs since.

Nashville against St. Louis. An alright team, but at this point not good mainly because of questionable goaltending.

Nashville against Anaheim. Anaheim had their starter hurt, but the way they were playing with him they likely win. Anaheim got swept the next season and missed since.

Didn't exactly beat the best of the best.

Now, let's look at Hall.

Edmonton - yeah they sucked and still do aside from that one season.

New jersey - they suck.

Arizona - overrated team trying to stop being in the basement. They have more holes to fill, but going in the right direction. However, with Hall unlikely to re-sign there this trade seems kind of dumb, but Chayka is dumb, so it actually makes sense.

Not sure how either bring their team down, rather than being dealt not so favourable, or down right shitty hands
 
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Nothing could fix that Nashville team, they won't win with that core. Too many guys who would rather hit you in a back and yet shy away from the heavy contact areas. Hall just plays on a shit team every year. Like come on, now PHX? Guy can't catch a break
 
Daxi said:
What's your point? Cheechoo won a Rocket. Rick Nash won a Rocket. Flukes can happen even at the NHL level, especially when writers are involved.
Click to expand...

Man's got 540 points in 598 games, playing for teams so bad he saw five 1st overall players come and go during his time in Edmonton and Jersey. Hall is the real deal, you make him sound like Parenteau!
 
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Duchene in Columbus is a weird one to hang your hat on. They played well down the stretch after acquiring him and swept one of the most dominant regular season teams we've ever seen and then lost to a very good Boston team that went to game 7 of the SCF. After losing Duchene (along with a few others) Columbus is now average at best. That doesn't exactly go with the trend.
 
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The problem in Nashville isn't Duchene, it's that guy behind the bench and goaltending.

Lavi shuffles the lines for dang near every game, and then will shuffle them a million times during the game. Meanwhile he does nothing to adjust the defensive pairings nor his strategy.

When you continually bring in guys that are at least 60-70 point guys and they continually flounder something is off.

Oddly enough now that he finally put Granlund - Forsberg - Duchene back together those guys have started putting up points again.
 
What if Duchene and Hall were teammates, what happens to that team?
 
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