Online Series: Star Wars Andor on D+

[beowulf]

Click to read more...

 

[HanSolo]

The closer we get to its release, and the more I see Rogue One revisionism, the more I kept thinking about how/why Cassian/Rogue one bothered me so much.

I think with Cassian it's because he represented the most compelling part of Rogue One that was left a bit wanting for more development, that the war was ugly and the Rebellion wasn't exactly virtuous and noble in fighting it. That's the kind of subversion of expectations that's welcome and appropriate in Star Wars canon. The problem is, Rogue One had very little time to develop those threads and develop an entire cast of characters to build towards its climax. The last act of the film is, in my opinion, magnificent Star Wars filmmaking. The only downside is it was kind of hard to care too much about the deaths of the Rogue One crew because the first two acts of the film are a muddled mess of character development and erratic pacing.

And I could bitch about literally every single character except for Krennic (who in my opinion is the only one who got effective character writing), but it especially bothers me in the case of Cassian. And I'll try to quickly draw a comparison to my username as far as morally questionable heroes go.

Han never needed to be more complex than being a cocky, witty, and charming low level criminal who primarily looked out for himself in the vast and dangerous galaxy. His role as the reluctant hero works because over the course of A New Hope you see smatterings of Han's core values of doing the right thing come out over the persona he's built as a selfminded outlaw. You don't need to dig deeper than that. We didn't need the Solo movie (though I actually think it's the most fun Star Wars project in the Disney era so I personally give it a pass).

With Cassian, there's the foundation for one of the most compelling characters in Star Wars. A shadow agent for a rebellion fighting for freedom whose primary directive is to do the Rebellion's dirty work. An embodiment of the ends justifying the means in wartime. There's so much potential there. And it's even more compelling that they gave a taste of his back story that he'd devoted his life to the rebellion since childhood. His big character moment is defying direct orders and putting his life on the line for a cause that is just after a lifetime of obeying orders. It's not that it's wildly out of character it just happens so suddenly. His argument with Jyn in the middle of the movie is not convincing as a transformative moment. The guy either needed a prequel series or movie just about him before Rogue One to really flesh out the character more if they were insistent on having a cast of 6 heroes to root for in Rogue One. Give him some underlying foundation for recognizing what the right thing to do is even when your orders run contrary.

So I get why for some this series is probably the least interesting of the slate of future releases but I actually think if this show is done well, Cassian can have the opportunity to be a standout character in the Star Wars canon. Like I said, the foundation for something great was there. They just didn't have time/competency to flesh those elements out. It's an uphill battle but I'm interested to see how they do.

 

[HanSolo]

Anyway. Teaser looked good. The aesthetics of both Obi Wan and Andor look much improved over early Mandalorian, so its clear Disney is throwing more budget at this.

My worry from the teaser is it seems the scope of the show is less about the darker side of the rebellion, and more about its continued origin and the growth in influence of the Empire. Here it kinda feels like Disney is more concerned about filling in the space between Episodes 3 and 4 than they are on building what I talked about above.

 

[Hockeyfrilla]

Looks good. Love me some Stellan Skarsgård.

 

[Osprey]

I like that it looks dirty and relatively practical. The speeder crash at 1:31 looks better than the Technicolor moped sequences in The Book of Boba Fett.

I'm likely in the minority, but I'm probably more interested in this than Obi-Wan Kenobi, The Mandalorian Season 3 and the other series in production. This is a chance to do Star Wars storytelling without it being hindered too much by canon or laden with fan service. It's sort of the opposite of Obi-Wan Kenobi, and even if that's good, it could be refreshing to have something a little different next quarter.

 

[Osprey]

 

[HanSolo]

This has the feel of something simultaneously within the Star Wars universe and outside of it.

 

[beowulf]

Wow that was wow. Ok I have hope this will be good. I liked Rogue One so...

Now is it just me or did some of the rebellion have what looked like good old projective and not laser weapons?

So this is in essence a sequel to Revenge of the Sith and a prequel to Rogue One and A New Hope.

According to showrunner Tony Gilroy, the first of two seasons will take place five years before Rogue One, in the early days of the Rebellion. Season one, which will consist of 12 episodes, will cover a whole year’s worth of time. The second season of Andor will cover the other four years leading up to Rogue One, with events dovetailing directly into that film.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

The trailer is top notch, I hope the series delivers.

I had very little interest in the character, but the trailer sure made me care about the series.

 

[Power Man]

Did I see Valorum or am I way off?

 

[Hivemind]

That trailer looks exactly like the Star Wars show I've always wanted. You actually get a real taste of what the Empire is doing, and the odds against the Rebellion. Star Wars is often at its best with little or no Jedi involvement (and certainly no Jedi mysticism elements), so this is right up my alley.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Looks really good. Think a lot of Star Wars fans have been wanting a series like this for a long time. No Skywalker chosen one nonsense, no dumbing down and padding the corners for kids, and no gimmicky fan service.

A more complex story with more characters, factions, and planets that explores the Universe in more detail has been on my wish list for a while. Star Wars has a ton of hardcore fans, about time they reward them with something more developed and ambitious.

 

[Osprey]

That trailer looks exactly like the Star Wars show I've always wanted. You actually get a real taste of what the Empire is doing, and the odds against the Rebellion. Star Wars is often at its best with little or no Jedi involvement (and certainly no Jedi mysticism elements), so this is right up my alley.

I agree. In the OT, the Rebels win mostly because of teamwork, ingenuity and determination, not superpowers. The difference that the Force makes is actually rather small. The second Death Star is destroyed and the Battle of Endor is won without any help from Jedi. I want to see war in space between the outnumbered Rebels and the formidable Empire. It's part of why I liked Rogue One and why I'm looking forward to this series, even though the last two greatly disappointed me. I also like the practial look, cinematography and locations (no Tatooine!) and that there's some space action, it appears to be targeted at a slightly older audience and it has 12 episodes to, hopefully, tell a fuller story.

 

[Emperoreddy]

It's not shot on The Volume which is already a massive improvement

 

[Osprey]

It's not shot on The Volume which is already a massive improvement

I just looked it up and you're right (naturally). The Volume/StageCraft wasn't used at all. I love that they're going "old school."

Andor Doesn’t Use Star Wars’ Volume Video Wall: ‘We’re Old-School,’ Says Tony Gilroy – Exclusive Image

The video wall used in Obi-Wan Kenobi, The Book Of Boba Fett and The Mandalorian wasn't used on the Rogue One spin-off. Read more at Empire.

www.empireonline.com

Upcoming Rogue One prequel series Andor – telling the story of Diego Luna’s rebel Cassian Andor amid the rising rebellion in the five years running up to that movie – went predominantly practical with its environments. That meant building massive sets at Pinewood, heading out into the world to shoot on location, and leaving the video wall behind altogether. “Yep, we’re old-school,” chuckles series mastermind (and Rogue One alumnus) Tony Gilroy, in Empire’s major new Andor feature – coming soon in the House Of The Dragon issue. “We didn’t use StageCraft at all.” It’s a choice that looks set to add even more grit and earthiness to a series all about capturing that texture, set at a time when the Star Wars galaxy is a particularly dark and dangerous place to be.

 

[Beau Knows]

Weird character to do a show on. But I suppose the advantage is that he doesn't come with 40 years of baggage, they can do whatever they want with him.

With these types of shows I just hope for smaller scale stories that don't have a million old characters showing up all the time. I want them to have the confidence to tell their own stories without Dark Vader or R2D2 showing up to remind everyone that they like Star Wars.

The trailer makes it look like it should a step up visually from the Obi-Wan series which looked a little cheap.

 

[Habsfunk]

Weird character to do a show on. But I suppose the advantage is that he doesn't come with 40 years of baggage, they can do whatever they want with him.

I'm a fan of Diego Luna so it's nice he's getting the lead role in a Star Wars series. I also really liked Rogue One, so I'm happy their bringing back some of those characters for more. The trailers also look great. I do find it odd the show is named after Andor because from the trailers he seems like one part of an ensemble..

 

[RobBrown4PM]

YAYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Disney remembered Coruscant exists!

 

[MadDevil]

This does look much more cinematic than the other Disney+ Star Wars shows. In fact it's enough to get me more interested in this than I was before. I definitely liked Rogue One but didn't feel like I needed a Cassian Andor series.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

I'm super pumped for this one. I get why it's not the most promoted Star Wars show out there, honestly Andor gets lost in the shuffle a bit in Rogue One. But when you back and re-watch that movie it is just overall great movie. I do agree with @HanSolo a bit in his post above from May where the characters in Rogue One just weren't quite fleshed out enough which held it back just a tad. This will be an excellent opportunity to rectify that. My lasting impression of Andor was a scene in the middle of the movie where he tells Jyn something to the effect of "We all have our reasons for being here". And that's all we get on backstory on him, IIRC. So plenty of room for them to maneuver with this character.

This could be a really great spy thriller type of show. And it felt like Diego Luna had more talent that he was able to let on in Rogue One. Really fill an interesting niche in Star Wars Canon. IMO Star Wars has had more successes than misses in live action shows since D+ started to be a thing. Of course Star Wars fandom being what it is (honestly I rarely talk Star Wars anymore because the vocal minority of the fanbase is so freaking toxic) I'm sure it'll get ravaged but I love Star Wars, love Mandalorian, Obi-Wan was really solidly done, and even the mixed bag of Boba Fett had it's moments. Can't wait.

 

[Hivemind]

It's not shot on The Volume which is already a massive improvement

Not sure why there’s volume backlash in this thread of all places. The Mandalorian used it to tremendous effect, and the crew there knows how to set up additional props and lighting to make it look fully realized. While it’s not a perfect technology (Our Flag Means Death certainly shows it’s shortcomings), if there’s a production team that has demonstrated competence in using it superbly, it’s the visual effects team at Star Wars.

 

[Osprey]

Not sure why there’s volume backlash in this thread of all places. The Mandalorian used it to tremendous effect, and the crew there knows how to set up additional props and lighting to make it look fully realized. While it’s not a perfect technology (A Flag Called Death certainly shows it’s shortcomings), if there’s a production team that has demonstrated competence in using it superbly, it’s the visual effects team at Star Wars.

For whatever reason, Kenobi didn't look as good. "Cheap" is a common description. Perhaps it wasn't Disney's 'A' team (as the technology is used more, more people need to be trained in it). Perhaps COVID had an impact. Perhaps we're no longer impressed by it, like CGI. Perhaps we've become accustomed to it and even distracted by it. Regardless, no matter how good a stage looks, real world locations and sets always look better and more "cinematic." Natural lighting always looks far better than stage lighting, characters can interact with more of the environment and the camera isn't as limited to a narrow field of view. Imagine if GoT were shot exclusively on stages on the HBO lots. It wouldn't look nearly as cinematic and epic. What I think that a lot of us would like to see is show that's as impressively shot and produced as GoT, but in the Star Wars universe. The Volume is a great technology, but I don't want to see it replace real world filming and sets. Use it in places where the characters would otherwise be acting against nothing but a green screen, to get better performances out of them and look better for us. Don't use it simply because it's cheaper and easier. The same goes for other CGI. It's great and useful, but, if you can do something practically, do it and save the CGI for things that are impractical or impossible.

 

[RandV]

Not sure why there’s volume backlash in this thread of all places. The Mandalorian used it to tremendous effect, and the crew there knows how to set up additional props and lighting to make it look fully realized. While it’s not a perfect technology (Our Flag Means Death certainly shows it’s shortcomings), if there’s a production team that has demonstrated competence in using it superbly, it’s the visual effects team at Star Wars.

I don't know, but as someone who's not bothered by CGI the impression I have now is this is very video-gamey tech and the Star Wars shows using it all end up with a video game feel to their own detriment. Like Mandalorian sets down on a new planet and there's one video-game sized town where he has to complete one vide-game like quest before moving on. I wasn't able to get all the way through them but Boba Fett and Obi-Wan felt the same to me.

As cool as I thought the tech was when I first saw the video about it, it seems conducive to building the same types of setups just with different flavours. Props in the middle, surrounded by a circular CGI background. Perfect for a 'video game town'.

 

[Hivemind]

For whatever reason, Kenobi didn't look as good. "Cheap" is a common description. Perhaps it wasn't Disney's 'A' team (as the technology is used more, more people need to be trained in it). Perhaps COVID had an impact. Perhaps we're no longer impressed by it, like CGI. Perhaps we've become accustomed to it and even distracted by it. Regardless, no matter how good a stage looks, real world locations and sets always look better and more "cinematic." Natural lighting always looks far better than stage lighting, characters can interact with more of the environment and the camera isn't as limited to a narrow field of view. Imagine if GoT were shot exclusively on stages on the HBO lots. It wouldn't look nearly as cinematic and epic. What I think that a lot of us would like to see is show that's as impressively shot and produced as GoT, but in the Star Wars universe. The Volume is a great technology, but I don't want to see it replace real world filming and sets. Use it in places where the characters would otherwise be acting against nothing but a green screen, to get better performances out of them and look better for us. Don't use it simply because it's cheaper and easier. The same goes for other CGI. It's great and useful, but, if you can do something practically, do it and save the CGI for things that are impractical or impossible.

Generally speaking, calling any one technology better than another is generally a flawed approach. Each have their own advantages and limitations, and how skillfully a director, cinematographer, and VFX team can work around those limitations while maximizing those advantages will determine how good a show or movie looks. I don't think that filming "on location" is always guaranteed to look better, or that natural lighting is always preferred. Filming on location puts you at the mercy of the weather, daylight conditions, real-world clutter, and even just location scouting somewhere that matches the aesthetic the director is looking for (and obviously real world costs and logistical challenges). Even Game of Thrones augmented its outdoor shots with numerous soundstages and green screens.

The Volume enables both more dynamic lighting and interactivity (with still plenty wide field of view), while also giving the director control over lighting and background effects. It's not perfect, and many teams are still learning it, but when executed properly you'd never guess that things were shot on a volume. Take for instance The Batman, which heavily used the volume for a variety of shots and they looked immaculate. And many of those shots during the "golden hour" would have only given an on location film crew mere minutes to try and capture those shots each day (and if they missed it or the weather conditions didn't permit, they'd have no choice but to wait for a future day) - and would be straight up impossible to superimpose a fictional city's background upon (we'd get some very obviously "oh this is actually the New York skyline" shots instead).

You can definitely get things wrong in The Volume, but I can't really think of anything glaring in Obi Wan that I wished had been shot different. Stuff like Our Flag Means Death... yeah, that looks like a crappy soundstage. But, as with any VFX techonology, it often comes down to schedule, budget, and crew expertise more than it does the technology itself.

Do I want everything shot on the volume, or even the entirety of shows that use the volume to only use the volume? No. But I certainly don't think its a technology that should be lampooned or avoided.



Edit - this did remind me, Luke's green lightsaber in Episode VI is a byproduct of filming outdoors during the Jabba barge scenes. His blue saber didn't show up well against the blue sky, so they changed it to green. And because of that, we now have troves of lore about what different light saber colors mean

 

[Warden of the North]

New trailer looks great. Rogue One is the highlight of Disney's Star Wars films overall, so this has me very excited.