SSM Greyhounds Off-season Thread

[EON]

Final 2021-22 Season Thread: SSM Greyhounds 2021-2022 Season Thread (Part 3)

Prospects Tracker: SSM Greyhounds Off-season Thread

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[mag1600]

How can Coach Dean get across to his yearly teams the importance of discipline and consistency in play to be successful. You can have a skilled team but without these two success is hard to come by.

This is a area of weakness for Dean.

 

[DeletedAccountt]

How can Coach Dean get across to his yearly teams the importance of discipline and consistency in play to be successful. You can have a skilled team but without these two success is hard to come by.

This is a area of weakness for Dean.

I'm done with John Dean.

Imagine the message he sent to his forwards when they replaced Kartye with a Dman on the PP.

I also wouldn't mind seeing Raftis go.

 

[DWI Dale]

I'm done with John Dean.

Imagine the message he sent to his forwards when they replaced Kartye with a Dman on the PP.

I also wouldn't mind seeing Raftis go.

welcome to the darkside

 

[HockeyPops]

SSM PROSPECTS TRACKER - this post

2021-22 Season stats
I am going to try to keep this updated with our prospects and links to any current season stats that we can find on each. I would like to crowd source this information, so if you find a link to someone's stats please post below and I will update this post with it accordingly.

2006 Prospects
2022, 1st - Brown, Christopher L (C) - North York Rangers U16 (GTHL)
2022, 2nd - Miller, Landon L (G) - Vaughan Kings U16 (GTHL)
2022, 3rd - McConnell-Barker, Broden L (LD) - London Jr Knights U16 (Alliance)
2022, 3rd - Kostov, Alex R (RW) - Markham Majors U16 (GTHL)
2022, 4th - Virgilio, Matthew R (RD) - St. Andrews College (CISAA), Michigan commit ('24-'25)
2022, 5th - Vader, Tate L (C) - Huron Perth Lakers U16 (Alliance)
2022, 5th - Brentnell, Nate R (C) - Richmond Hill Coyotes U16 (ETA)
2022, 6th - Evans, Spencer L (LD) - Smiths Falls Bears U18 (HEO)
2022, 7th - Tavares, Justin L (LW) - Vaughan Kings U16 (GTHL)
2022, 8th - Shannon, Logan L (LD) - North Central Predators U16 (ETA)
2022, 9th - Russell, Brayden R (RW) - Hamilton Jr Bulldogs U16 (SCTA)
2022, 11th - Nicholson, Aiden R (RW?) - Toronto Nationals U16 (GTHL)
2022, 12th - Lilja, Elijah R (C) - Pittsburgh Penguins Elite 15s
2022, 13th - Hunka, Troy R (RW) - Cleveland Barons 15s
2022, 14th - Hopley, Andrew R (C) - Whitby Wildcats U16 (ETA)
2022, 15th - Roach, Evan L (D) - Soo Jr Greyhounds U18 (GNML)

2005 Prospects
2021, 1st - Cloutier, Justin R (RW)
2021, 2nd - Mignosa, Marco R (RW)
2021, 3rd - Montroy, Ethan L (LW)
2021, 4th - Gibson, Andrew R (RD) - Soo Thunderbirds (NOJHL)
2021, 5th - Scott, Blair L (LD) - Kitchener Waterloo Siskins (GOJHL)
2021, 7th - Lewinski, Charlie L (C) - Compuware AAA 16U, Connecticut commit ('24-'25)
2021, 8th - Campbell, Stephen R (C) - Hamilton Kilty B's (GOJHL)
2021, 9th - Ciaramitaro, Anthony L (LD) - Windsor Junior Spitfires AAA U18 (Alliance)
2021, 10th - Campbell, Ty L (LD) - Smith's Falls Bears (CCHL)
2021, 10th - Ziskie, Noah R (RD) - Oakland Junior Grizzlies 16U (HPHL)
2021, 10th - Clattenburg, Connor L (LW) - Renfrew Wolves AAA U18 (HEO)
2021, 11th - Fellinger, Austin R (RD) - Soo Greyhounds AAA U18 (GNML)
2021, 13th - Corte, Zack L (LW/RW) - Ajax-Pickering Raiders U18 (ETA)
2021, 14th - Shore, Owen L (LW) - Waterloo Wolves AAA U18 (Alliance)
2021, 15th - Paddington, EJ L (LW) - Thunder Bay Kings AAA U18 (GTHL)
2022I, 1st - Nordh, Noel L (RW)
2022U, 1st - Good, Dustin R (RW)
2022U, 2nd - Labelle, Caleb L (LD)

2004 Prospects
2020, 1st - McConnell-Barker, Bryce L (C)
2020, 3rd - Toms, Connor L (D)
2020, 4th - McGroarty, Rutger L (C) - USNTDP, Michigan commit ('22-'23)
2020, 5th - Carlisle, Caeden L (D)
2020, 5th - Schenkel, Charlie R (G)
2020, 6th - Bellwood, Jax L (LW) - Stouffville Spirit (OJHL)
2020, 7th - Allard, Owen L (C)
2020, 8th - Varner, Justin R (LW) - Youngstown Phantoms (USHL), MSU commit ('23-'24)
2020, 8th - Davis, Nathaniel R (RD) - Burlington Cougars (OJHL)
2020, 8th - Ballard, Harrison R (C) *trade* - Wellington Dukes (OJHL), UMass commit ('22-'23)
2020, 9th - Hookey, Landen R (RW)
2020, 10th - Spurrell, Justin R (RW) - Powassan Voodoos (NOJHL)
2020, 11th - Dunn, Nolan L (G) - Central Ontario Wolves U18 AAA (ETA)
2020, 12th - Ryan, Jackson (Jack) L (C) - Peterborough Petes U18 AAA (ETA)
2020, 13th - Van De Ven, Caleb R (RD) - Powassan Voodoos (NOJHL)
2020, 14th - West, Owen L (LD) - Jamestown Rebels (NAHL), MSU Commit ('23-'24)
2020, 15th - Muszelik, Tyler L (G) - USNTDP, UNH commit ('23-'24)
2021I, 1st - Kudryavtsev, Kirill L (RD)
2021I, 2nd - Lutz, Julian L (LW) - EHC München DEL ('21-'22)
2021U, 1st - Johnson, James R (RW)
2021U, 2nd - Donaldson, Colton L (G)
2021U, 3rd - Brandes, David L (RD)

2003 Prospects
2019, 1st - Holmes, Jacob L (D)
2019, 3rd - Boudreau, Marc L (F)
2019, 4th - D'Intino, Jordan L (C)
2019, 5th - Parsons, Owen R (RW)
2019, 6th - Brzustowski, Luc L (D)
2019, 7th - Taylor, Coulter L (G)
2019, 8th - Haymes, Luke L (C)
2019, 9th - Chiddenton, Rhys L (LW)
2019, 10th - Brown, Hunter R (D)
2019, 11th - Savard, Tyler L (LW)
2019, 12th - DiPasquo, Luca R (G), MSU Commit ('22-'23)
2019, 13th - Miller, Connor R (C)
2019, 14th - DeVries, Luke L (D)
2019, 15th - Heroux, Logan R (D)
2020U, 1st - Ivanov, Samuel L (G)
2020U, 2nd - Williamson, Cole L (LD)
2020U, 3rd - Brock, Henry L (C)

Note on junior leagues:
BCHL, CCHL, NOJHL, OJHL, SIJHL are Junior A leagues.
PJHL, GOJHL are Junior B leagues.
Tier 1 in the US is called USHL. HPHL is not junior - it's midget.

Here is our approximate depth Chart by position.

LW	C	RW		LD	RD		G
Savard L (03)	McConnell-Barker Sr. L (04)	Watson R OA (02)		Kudryavtsev L (04)	Thompson R OA (02)		Tynan L OA (02)
McMullen L OA (02)	Allard L (04)	Mignosa R (05)		Carlisle L (04)	Virgilio R (06)		Ivanov L (03)
Anselmini L (03)	D'Intino L (03)	Cloutier R (05)		Toms L (04)	Gibson R (05)		Schenkel R (04)
Montroy L (05)	Brown L (06)	Hookey R (04)		Halushak L OA (02)			Miller L (06)
				Brzustowski L (03)
Lutz L (04)	McGroarty L (04)	Nordh L (05)		Scott L (05)	Fellinger R (05)		Muszelik L (04)
Clattenburg L (05)	Ballard R (04)	Kostov R (06)		Campbell, T L (05)			Donaldson L (04)
Paddington L (05)	Ryan L (04)	Russell R (06)		Ciaramitaro L (05)			Dunn L (04)
Shore L (05)	Vader L (06)	Nicholson R (06)		McConnell-Barker Jr. L (06)
Tavares L (06)	Brentnell R (06)	Hunka R (06)		Evans L (06)
	Lilja R (06)	Good R (05)		Shannon L (06)
	Hopley R (06)	Corte L (05)		Roach L (06)
	Campbell, S R (05)			Labelle L (05)
				Van De Ven L (04)

2019-2020 Season stats - See Old Prospects Thread
2022 Development Camp Post

 

[HockeyPops]

Again, I think Raftis is executing the Lukenda vision. If you want to sell big at the deadline, I think Lukenda stands in the way.

 

[DWI Dale]

Lukenda's vision sucks or Raftis is failing. Or maybe both. But its not working.

 

[DWI Dale]

I'm not Dean's no.1 fan but he hasn't been given an elite, veteran laden squad with good goaltending yet either. I'll reserve judgment on him for when Lukenda and Raftis give him a contender.

 

[HockeyPops]

Anyone have any scoop about the development camp? Haven't heard anything.

 

[HockeyPops]

Lukenda's vision sucks or Raftis is failing. Or maybe both. But its not working.

Or is it? There were some dark times for this franchise in the 2000s. Attendance was not great. I think the vision is to avoid those dark times of multiple non competitive seasons in a row.

So what is the vision?
RECRUITING: Build a program that players and staff want to join. Check.
DEVELOPMENT: Be a launching pad for players to enter professional hockey careers. Check.
REVENUE: Win enough to draw a crowd and make some money. Check.
COMPETE: Be competitive enough to win post season series and generate excitement about the team. Check.
SUCCESS: Put some banners in the rafters. Check

Only one team can put THE banner in the rafters each year. The fact this team's management hasn't gotten over that hump yet is not an indication that it is not working.

 

[DWI Dale]

firstly i think we disagree on what constitutes a "competitive" team. imo we were "competitive" 2015 and 2018.

management and the more homer-ish elements of the fanbase seem to have detached themselves from hockey reality and are now trying to sell easy 2nd round exits as contenders. you can celebrate moral victories (see above) until you're red in the face but it doesn't make these teams legit contenders or get us closer to a cup.

if the vision is to be a mediocre playoff team but never bottom out then they have been successful.

if the vision is to pursue an OHL championship then we're 4 years removed from our last legit contender and have a tough season ahead of us to make it 5. to make matters worse, due to never rebuilding our management had to resort to spending a 2nd and a 3rd in future assets just to acquire a 2nd this year.

the 2021-2022 season turned out EXACTLY how I said it would it 2019. we built a mediocre team around o'rourke and didn't have the assets to land the big fish. 2024 is shaping up the same way. good, not great, no stockpile of picks to make a splash. argue with me all you want, the proof is in the results. you can have your moral victories. i want a cup.

 

[DWI Dale]

watching fans like yourself and Fischhaber continuously tell us how good we should be while the on-ice product indicates otherwise makes me suspicious that you both have ties to the organization. Mr Lukenda is that you?

 

[HockeyPops]

Lol.

Dale, you are absolutely bang on that we need to have well defined goals and well defined measurables to see if we are achieving those goals. The point I am attempting to make in my post above is that we do not know what those goals or measurables are. One of the goals should be to win a cup. But it is not the only goal.

We have won 10 playoff series in the last 10 years. That's 3rd best in the OHL - tied with Oshawa, behind only Erie (11) and London (12). And none of the remaining four teams can unseat us from that spot regardless of how the final two rounds shake out this year. It's too bad if you don't believe we've achieved any postseason successes under the current management, but I do not share that view.

I am proud of our organization. I believe it to be one of the best in the OHL. I believe if you polled the players and coaches and team staff of all the organizations you would find a similar result. So it does rankle me somewhat to find someone who claims to be a fan not give due credit.

This season I thought we would be either into the 3rd round, or push our second round opponent further than we did. I was wrong, and I have no problem saying that. You were much closer to your assessment of how far we would go. Congratulations.

Not sure how any of this warrants the "homer" moniker or the accusations of ties to the organization? I probably see some things through rose coloured glasses, sure, but I'm not sure how any fan doesn't? I don't claim to be an unbiased hockey analyst. Do you?

Anyway, I am still trying to decompress after a disappointing second round loss. However, this team punched well above their weight all season imo as I started the year thinking they would squeak into the playoffs and be an easy first round out.

Time to think about the off season.

 

[DWI Dale]

i apply the homer moniker to people who never criticize management and consistently over-value the talent we have. all the posters who touted 2019's team as a contender were the same people thinking this year's team was going somewhere. my question would be how many years of 2nd year exits or worse would it take to change your mind about the direction of the program?

10 playoff series wins in 10 years might make you feel warm and fuzzy but in that 10 years we had 2 actual contending teams contribute 50% of those series wins. stats like that are nothing without the context behind them. if you want a stat, how about ZERO cups in 30 years. that's the stat that is bothering me.

Oshawa is the most winningest franchise in the OHL and have an OHL championship and Mem Cup in 2015. London has an OHL championship in 2012, 2013, and 2016 with a mem cup in 2016. I'd love to one day be able to compare our franchise to that kind of success but we aren't even close.

 

[HockeyPops]

Everybody wants a cup. But it is not the only way to measure success. Winning playoff series does not require additional context. It means the team is having success. 2nd round appearances mean the team is doing something right, not doing something wrong. They are a tweak here, or an injury there, away from taking the next step. Management is learning, the players are learning, the fans are cheering, the seats are selling.

I have spent lots of years at the rink. These more recent years have been a lot more fun than those darker years in the 2000s. I see lots more kids getting passionate about the Greyhounds now than they were then. It was hard to cheer for a losing team. And being bad those years didn't bring a cup. You think selling and tanking will guarantee a cup? Teams tank every year and it rarely brings a cup.

It's a lot more fun to cheer for a winning team than a losing team. The Greyhounds have been doing a lot more winning than losing lately. And are you sure we are that far away from those franchises you so yearn to match? Neither team looks like they will be a contender next season. If neither wins next year they will each have won one cup in 10 years. We are one cup away from matching that.

Management has brought us lots of success. You can't see the forest for the trees, and I'm a homer for pointing this out?

 

[DWI Dale]

Sure sounds like something Mr. Lukenda would say.

If 2nd round exits are your measure of success then there isn't much I can say to change your mind. I too suffered through the Torrie years although it didn't result in my acceptance of mediocrity.

I was also a fan during "the Rising" Dubas years and he set the bar very high. I sure hope that wasn't the franchises high water mark but I have doubts our present philosophy will get us past the 2nd round.

 

[dirty12]

Sure sounds like something Mr. Lukenda would say.

If 2nd round exits are your measure of success then there isn't much I can say to change your mind. I too suffered through the Torrie years although it didn't result in my acceptance of mediocrity.

I was also a fan during "the Rising" Dubas years and he set the bar very high. I sure hope that wasn't the franchises high water mark but I have doubts our present philosophy will get us past the 2nd round.

The hounds need to re-tool this time around having traded away two of its’ top ‘03 for an attempt at a longer playoff run. The next realistic shot at a #2-3 seed is with the ‘06 born draft class, I think.

 

[DWI Dale]

our next run is supposed to be built sound the '04 class. in that draft we didn't have a 2nd rounder and wasted our 4th on Rutger McGroarty. it's a bold strategy Cotton. let's see if it pays off for'em.

 

[FireBird71]

our next run is supposed to be built sound the '04 class. in that draft we didn't have a 2nd rounder and wasted our 4th on Rutger McGroarty. it's a bold strategy Cotton. let's see if it pays off for'em.

It’s ok…I’ll enjoy Mcgroarty in Ann Arbor next season

 

[Houndzfan20]

i agree with both of you guys. but i am and always have been on the side of go all in every 3 or 4 years.

yes we have had some really good, above average regular seasons the last 10 years. We've had some unreal draft picks, developed some average draft picks into stars and finished first a ton.

but i've also been saying for the last 10 years that junior hockey is a cycle and i've always been a firm believer in giving it everything for a championship and rebuilding for the next 3 years. the 2018 season was so much fun. that playoff run was a treat to watch. i would have gladly spent 2 years in the basement if we would have traded frost and hayton the next year. those two would have set us up for years.

sure it looks great when you finish first in the regular season every year but i'd trade all of it to watch an exciting cup run like we did against hamilton.

but i will say that i think it seems like raftis has his hands tied. he does draft well and wins most trades. i have been a fan for the most part.

 

[DWI Dale]

the 2018 season was so much fun. that playoff run was a treat to watch. i would have gladly spent 2 years in the basement if we would have traded frost and hayton the next year. those two would have set us up for years.

YES!

It could have made the difference for us this season. If the point is to be "competitive every year" then why aren't we? Why does it look like we could be a team that scrapes by into the playoffs next year? Why are we spending multiple draft picks from 2 or 3 years down the road already just to recoup a 2nd round pick. The expression "robbing Peter to pay Paul" comes to mind. This is poor asset management (although I'm glad it appears we finally drafted a goalie).

Hamilton is likely headed for another finals and we could have set ourselves up for the rematch. Instead we are 4 years removed from a cup run, 2023 looks grim, and no guarantees our 2024 roster will be any better than this years team. Instead of 3 or 4 years between cup runs, does this "never selling" philosophy stretch our runs to being 8 years apart instead?

If this is Raftis' decisions then he should have to explain to fans why we went after Thompson on a team that wasn't a contender, or why we didn't have the assets to pursue a game-breaking forward like McTavish.

And if this is Lukenda's doing as many of you have asserted, then he needs to stop being a Eugene Melnyk and get out of the operations of the team because his meddling is hurting us in the short and long term.

 

[HockeyPops]

It's his team. Does he think it's hurting us? That's the question I do not have an answer to.

 

[DWI Dale]

interesting question...

if he wishes to have a contender every few years he might need to re-evaluate the program and his involvement.

if he wishes to generate 2 - 5 games of playoff revenue every season then maybe he's content with where things are at.

if it's the latter i hope that the meager 3000 fans in attendance at game 3 was an eye opener. without an on-ice product people believe in, attendance will not be as high as they might hope. 3000 fans at a 2nd round playoff game was the lowest i've seen.

 

[HockeyPops]

All the teams seem to be experiencing low attendance. Still a fallout from the pandemic? I think the Hounds were getting as good a turnout by % as anyone was

 

[DWI Dale]

All the teams seem to be experiencing low attendance. Still a fallout from the pandemic? I think the Hounds were getting as good a turnout by % as anyone was

i won't disagree that the pandemic played a factor as we didn't have anywhere near a sellout anytime this year. but the attendance for the 2nd round games was less than the attendance of the 1st round games so I feel like it's hard to blame the pandemic for that entirely. perhaps the weekday was a factor as well but 3000 attendance is pretty abysmal for a 2nd round playoff game in the Soo, especially in what were the final 2 games of the season. if we were up 2-0 in the series would attendance have been so low?