Speed of Prime Wayne Gretzky?

[grentthealien]

For those who watched Wayne night in night out what was your perception of both his straight line Speed and Acceleration? I recently stumbled upon this video on YouTube that does a Side by side comparison of him with McDavid and Crosby and while admittedly I’m taking it with a grain of salt and not coming to any precise conclusions about just how fast he was but I did find it interesting and can’t help but think his speed was underrated as it is hardly the first thing people talk about, especially on those older skates! When I have heard his skating mentioned by others it’s been more about his edges and elusiveness rather than explosive speed.

He was not faster than McDavid for sure and Probably not even Sid prime or present but it is still impressive how this footage seems to hold up side by side, although admittedly in a small sample size. Any thoughts from the HOHF on this topic and the footage below would be most appreciated

 

[MadLuke]

I’m taking it with a grain of salt and not coming to any precise conclusions about just how fast he was I did find it interesting and can’t help but think his speed was underrated as it is hardly the first thing people talk about, especially on those older skates!

I feel McDavid receive 2 stick here while Gretzky is fully clear and it is a single event comparison obviously, but yes, not just but speed but everything outside raw upper body strength tend to be grossly underrated by many when talking Gretzky, to the extreme I see sometime has if it was only his vision and brain of the game that stood him apart on a simply above average talent set, his incredible cardio is sometime less underrated but can often be an undervalued element for forward.

According to Jean Perron that was an assistant coach on team Canada, watching Gretzky just having fun during practice he had the most raw skill (puck handling, speed agility, tricks a la Datsyuk) of any player he ever saw, he was doing some dangle dazzle like the best ever, he just had usually better option on the ice during game.

There is a mix of his passing/play reading being so great, but also a large portion of his career being past a special speed.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Fast... there's this weird myth that Gretzky wasn't an exceptionally superb athlete and just jedi mind tricked people or something like that. No, Wayne was amazing in every aspect.

 

[JackSlater]

Gretzky was really agile, which makes his speed more functional than showy. The Cruyff quote about reacting earlier so that he seems faster than everyone else also comes to mind.

 

[McGarnagle]

Something to bear in mind is that McDavid and Makar are wearing custom molded lightweight plastic with carbon edge blades precision cut like a diamond, whereas at least in the early half of Gretzky's career they were basically wearing leather boots shelled with plastic and a stainless steel blade screwed onto the bottom that they'd rub against an old grinding wheel once in a while.

Give Gretzky modern equipment and he's probably just as fast as the top echelon of the league today.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Fast... there's this weird myth that Gretzky wasn't an exceptionally superb athlete and just jedi mind tricked people or something like that. No, Wayne was amazing in every aspect.

Gretzky was really agile, which makes his speed more functional than showy. The Cruyff quote about reacting earlier so that he seems faster than everyone else also comes to mind.

i really didn't start watching until mid-career LA gretzky. but i remember when they would show footage of young edmonton gretzky my eyes would pop out of my head at his footwork. all those weird button hooks and turns on a dime, he was magnificent.

older wayne was more subtle. more body positioning and misdirection to create space than just dancing and spinning like a maniac out there to open up the ice.

 

[Batis]

While his agility definitely was the most impressive part of his skating I do think that young Gretzky also was a more explosive athlete than he often gets credit for. A few years ago I watched the competition World Sports Masters from 1982 and the running speed of Gretzky really stood out to me. Here below is a repost of what I wrote in a "how many points would Wayne Gretzky or Mario Lemieux score in todays NHL" thread shortly after watching that.

Yesterday I watched a competition called World Sports Masters which was held in Sweden in 1982. It saw athletes from different sports compete against each other and when watching it I was very impressed with Gretzky. I personally believe that Gretzky was every bit as physically gifted as most of the NHL players of today. Again not in the strenght department but on a overall level when we factor in quickness, agility and so on.

Gretzkys most impressive performance in the competition was in my opinion that he ran the 60 meter dash in 7.24 seconds.



While Gretzkys 7.24 obviously not was a world class time I personally doubt that many of todays NHL players would outrun Gretzky in the 60 meter dash. 3 years later Ben Johnson won the World Indoor Championships with a time of 6.62. Obviously the 0.62 seconds difference is almost an eternity over 60 meters but I am still very impressed with Gretzkys performance. If we try to translate Gretzkys time in the 60 meter dash to the more established distance the 100 meter dash I have read that you can roughly translate a 60 meter time to a 100 meter time by multiplying it with two and then substracting 3 seconds. If we do that with Gretzkys 7.24 on 60 meter it would translate to 11.48 on 100 meter. Considering that Gretzky not was a world class sprinter it is likely that this translation is less effective with his time so lets say that Gretzkys 60 meter time would translate to somewhere between 11.50 and 11.75 on 100 meters. I have no idea how fast todays NHL players runs these distances but like I said I would be surprised if many would beat Gretzky.

Gretzky was not as impressive in the long jump but still performed an in my opinion very respectable result of 5.42 meters. This despite having a very unimpressive jumping technique. So he basically only reached that result because of his speed. Ingemar Stenmark who won the event jumped 6.03 meters. They only had two attempts each. Here is Gretzkys 5.42 jump.



Gretzky finished third overall in the World Sports Masters. Here is the final results if someone is interested.

World Sports Masters (1982-07-12)
1. Ingemar Stenmark 49 pts (26 years)
2. Kevin Keegan 44 pts (31 years)
3. Wayne Gretzky 39 pts (21 years)
4. Björn Borg 36.5 pts (26 years)
5. Stefan Persson 33 pts (27 years)
6. Vitas Gerulaitis 27.5 pts (27 years)
7. Sugar Ray Leonard 20.5 pts (26 years)
8. Pele 16.5 pts (41 years)

 

[MadLuke]

Gretzkys most impressive performance in the competition was in my opinion that he ran the 60 meter dash in 7.24 seconds.

To give some idea the woman world indoor 60m championship that year:

Rank	Name	Nationality	Time	Notes
	Marlies Göhr​	East Germany​	7.11
	Sofka Popova​	Bulgaria​	7.19
	Wendy Hoyte​	Great Britain​	7.27

Gretzky time if recorded correctly and if the indoor track are comparable, that a bronze medal. Mens were in the 6.6s

 

[Neutrinos]

Something to bear in mind is that McDavid and Makar are wearing custom molded lightweight plastic with carbon edge blades precision cut like a diamond, whereas at least in the early half of Gretzky's career they were basically wearing leather boots shelled with plastic and a stainless steel blade screwed onto the bottom that they'd rub against an old grinding wheel once in a while.

Give Gretzky modern equipment and he's probably just as fast as the top echelon of the league today.

Gretzky wasn't among the top speedsters in the league during his prime though

Coffey and Gartner used the same "leather boots shelled with plastic and stainless steel blade" that Gretzky was using, yet, they were noticeably faster than #99

 

[silkyjohnson50]

Something to bear in mind is that McDavid and Makar are wearing custom molded lightweight plastic with carbon edge blades precision cut like a diamond, whereas at least in the early half of Gretzky's career they were basically wearing leather boots shelled with plastic and a stainless steel blade screwed onto the bottom that they'd rub against an old grinding wheel once in a while.

Give Gretzky modern equipment and he's probably just as fast as the top echelon of the league today.

You can put McDavid and Makar in any era that ever existed with whatever technology was used at the time and they would still stand out as phenomenal skaters.

Was Gretzky ever considered the fastest/best skater of his era? If you’re not widely considered one of the fastest or best skaters of your era than how could one logically conclude that they would strap on newer technology and suddenly be as fast as the elite skaters of a later generation? I’m struggling to find the rational in that.

In fact, it’s Gretzky’s longtime teammate who is typically considered one of the best skaters of all time.

All of this not to say Gretzky wasn’t a good or great skater. But the idea that Gretzky would suddenly look like McDavid with today’s skates is just nonsense.

 

[mobilus]

I never saw Gretzky caught from behind on a breakaway, and given his transition and direction moves, seems like it was enough.

 

[MadLuke]

Not prime, Rookie Gretzky:
with the puck, movement, backward etc....speed


without puck strait/backward:

 

[Neutrinos]

It should also be noted that due to year-round training with an emphasis on plyometrics, the average skater is considerably faster than the average skater from Gretzky's prime

1980's NHL hockey looks like men's beer league compared to today's game

 

[Supreme King]

Gretzky had better then average speed in his prime, put a loose puck in front of him and he took that speed to another level.

That being said he just saw things even the great players don't see, his vision and anticipation on the ice was otherworldly.

 

[grentthealien]

While his agility definitely was the most impressive part of his skating I do think that young Gretzky also was a more explosive athlete than he often gets credit for. A few years ago I watched the competition World Sports Masters from 1982 and the running speed of Gretzky really stood out to me. Here below is a repost of what I wrote in a "how many points would Wayne Gretzky or Mario Lemieux score in todays NHL" thread shortly after watching that.

Yesterday I watched a competition called World Sports Masters which was held in Sweden in 1982. It saw athletes from different sports compete against each other and when watching it I was very impressed with Gretzky. I personally believe that Gretzky was every bit as physically gifted as most of the NHL players of today. Again not in the strenght department but on a overall level when we factor in quickness, agility and so on.

Gretzkys most impressive performance in the competition was in my opinion that he ran the 60 meter dash in 7.24 seconds.



While Gretzkys 7.24 obviously not was a world class time I personally doubt that many of todays NHL players would outrun Gretzky in the 60 meter dash. 3 years later Ben Johnson won the World Indoor Championships with a time of 6.62. Obviously the 0.62 seconds difference is almost an eternity over 60 meters but I am still very impressed with Gretzkys performance. If we try to translate Gretzkys time in the 60 meter dash to the more established distance the 100 meter dash I have read that you can roughly translate a 60 meter time to a 100 meter time by multiplying it with two and then substracting 3 seconds. If we do that with Gretzkys 7.24 on 60 meter it would translate to 11.48 on 100 meter. Considering that Gretzky not was a world class sprinter it is likely that this translation is less effective with his time so lets say that Gretzkys 60 meter time would translate to somewhere between 11.50 and 11.75 on 100 meters. I have no idea how fast todays NHL players runs these distances but like I said I would be surprised if many would beat Gretzky.

Gretzky was not as impressive in the long jump but still performed an in my opinion very respectable result of 5.42 meters. This despite having a very unimpressive jumping technique. So he basically only reached that result because of his speed. Ingemar Stenmark who won the event jumped 6.03 meters. They only had two attempts each. Here is Gretzkys 5.42 jump.



Gretzky finished third overall in the World Sports Masters. Here is the final results if someone is interested.

World Sports Masters (1982-07-12)
1. Ingemar Stenmark 49 pts (26 years)
2. Kevin Keegan 44 pts (31 years)
3. Wayne Gretzky 39 pts (21 years)
4. Björn Borg 36.5 pts (26 years)
5. Stefan Persson 33 pts (27 years)
6. Vitas Gerulaitis 27.5 pts (27 years)
7. Sugar Ray Leonard 20.5 pts (26 years)
8. Pele 16.5 pts (41 years)

Wow didn’t even know that was a thing! Wasn’t sure if it was worth me making this thread but this post alone justifies it for me hahaha Definitely going to have to watch some of that! Im suprised to see Pele finish so low although he was 41 at the time so in that respect still impressive.

 

[Batis]

Wow didn’t even know that was a thing! Wasn’t sure if it was worth me making this thread but this post alone justifies it for me hahaha Definitely going to have to watch some of that! Im suprised to see Pele finish so low although he was 41 at the time so in that respect still impressive.

Yes Pele had already been retired for 5 years at that point. In his prime he would certainly have done alot better in this kind of competition.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Prime Gretzky's straight ahead speed was above average, but his anticipation made him look even faster to loose pucks, steals, and interception chances. He was very agile and could turn and stop on a dime. He could also shift away from checks in full motion with the puck extremely well and embarrass players trying to engage him physically.

Another thing was that his endurance and recovery was legendary level, so as other players slowed down over the span of the game, Gretzky got relatively faster.

 

[The Panther]

This is a good one to show the speed of young Gretzky, who's only 22 in this clip:


Love how he strips the attacking player of the puck defensively, then plays it through another player's legs (!), then goes all-out down the ice to create a chance, before a nice heads-up play by Kurri finishes it off.

 

[Nathaniel]

Gretzky looked like he had a Piano on his back. When I think of great skaters he is far down the list relative to any erA

 

[Big Phil]

Blinding speed? No, that was Gartner, Coffey, Bob Bourne, etc. during his early days. But fast, quick and shifty? Yes. You know, there is "fast" and "quick". I feel there is a difference. Gretzky was quick. He was so smooth with the puck on his stick and so much smarter than the rest of the players that he always looked like he was skating past them. It was his anticipation that made him pounce on loose pucks and not get caught on a breakaway. But he still wasn't a plodding skater either. He was quick, even if he did have that hunched over skating style.

Quite frankly, he had this same sort of shiftiness well into the 1991 Canada Cup. Perhaps a slight, slight dip in his speed from the early 1980s, but not really noticeable. And if you watch 1991 Canada Cup footage he is still like a waterbug out there. The Suter hit sort of hurt his mobility.

 

[Leafshater67]

Gretzky was had above average speed, even better acceleration and world class agility and evasiveness. What separates him from many however is the fact that he was every bit as fast with a puck on his stick.

He was so good, people forget he was a good skater and very shifty.

 

[Overrated]

It should also be noted that due to year-round training with an emphasis on plyometrics, the average skater is considerably faster than the average skater from Gretzky's prime

1980's NHL hockey looks like men's beer league compared to today's game

Most of it could be down to the skate technology really. Look at the 70s games and it's even slower. The 90s game looks very modern already.

It seems like once you stopped it was difficult to get going again, this Petrov --> Kharlamov goal always stood out as what are all of the guys doing? They seem to be just chilling:

 

[seventieslord]

If I was designing an all-time NHL 94 ROM with all the greats, and I had the modified 0-15 scale to work with, I'd give Gretzky the following:

speed 9
agility 15
off.aware 15
def.aware 8
shot power 6
shot accuracy 14
pass accuracy 15
stickhandling 15
checking 2

this is not in relation to ALL players ever, just in the context of an all-time ROM with room for only the best ~600 players of all-time.

and this is in a bell curve kind of setup. I would design the ROM so that the majority of players hover around 7-8 in most categories and only 3 players earn a 0 or 15, only 10 earn a 1 or 14, and so on. So these 14s and 15s I'm giving him, they're meaningful.

 

[JackSlater]

If I was designing an all-time NHL 94 ROM with all the greats, and I had the modified 0-15 scale to work with, I'd give Gretzky the following:

speed 9
agility 15
off.aware 15
def.aware 8
shot power 6
shot accuracy 14
pass accuracy 15
stickhandling 15
checking 2

this is not in relation to ALL players ever, just in the context of an all-time ROM with room for only the best ~600 players of all-time.

and this is in a bell curve kind of setup. I would design the ROM so that the majority of players hover around 7-8 in most categories and only 3 players earn a 0 or 15, only 10 earn a 1 or 14, and so on. So these 14s and 15s I'm giving him, they're meaningful.

You'd have Gretzky as one of the three most agile players of all time?

 

[seventieslord]

You'd have Gretzky as one of the three most agile players of all time?

Well, for the purposes of this game, yes, for sure. Is he actually one of the three most agile players ever? Maybe? Who can really say? It's kind of a difficult to quantify thing. But the game has no rating to account for the mental aspect, in which he owns all. So in order to achieve the desired outcome (Gretzky being a top-3 player in the final product) he would have to have ratings like this.