Solution to USA Hockey and the Olympics: USA Basketball approach

[hckyguy14]

So I'm at work listening to WEEI Boston sports radio and they are talking about USA and Canada in the Olympics.

They made some good points regarding how to choose a team and mentioned how the NBA is sending out letters inviting people to a tryout camp to pick the USA Basketball team for the '08 Olympics.

So this made me think of how USA Hockey can pick thier team.

Invite players to a tryout camp. Don't just invite pro's, invite ametures too! Try to keep it as descret as possible that way a player does not feel obligated because it was made public. One of the problems IMO is that players are going because they feel pressure from their fellow countryman and USA Hockey. I say if a player dosn't want to be there, he shouldn't. So if a player is asked in descretion, they would feel more comfortable to decline if they do not want to go.

Then have tryouts in the offseason. This will allow coaches and whoever to decide what the best team to take would be by evaluating talent along with chemestry and whatever else you need to evaluate to form the best team you can.

Once you pick your team, have them commit to 3 years or so. Have them commit to offseason training and practice in order to build more team chemestry and get everyone on the same page. Have them sign a contract. Just like USA Basketball is doing.

Obviously this is just a rough idea, there would be more to go into it. But it's just my ideas.

Please Discuss.

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[GKJ]

it is mandated by FIBA that international teams with pro players must have at least 1 ameteur player on it. In 2004, Emeka Okafor was on the team for that reason (he had yet to play an NBA game).

 

[Force]

LOL?

there isn't a single amateur player on the German or Greek Team that played the Euro Fianls last year!

 

[Sens Rule]

Didn't Team USA Basketball lose the Olmpics and not even medal when their team was by far the best in the tournament. I mean in hockey Canada had the best team on paper but there were 6 other relatively equal teams and a couple of other decent teams. In the Summer Olympics the USA team had ALL of the top players. Probably the only player who could have played on the USA team in the tournament was Ming. They could have picked 5 teams far better than any other country had and they should finish 1-5 in the Olympics. And they didn't medal. Using the team USA basketball model isn't a very good idea.

Team USA hockey just doesn't have the best players and probably won't in most Olympic years, with Sweden, Canada and Russia usually having better teams. You just pick the best players you have and hope your goalie is hot. If he is you win like in 1996 with Richter and if not you lose. Canada lost out at the same time as the USA and they had a better team. You can't win them all and that's just life in a short round robin tournament goaltending is king.

 

[GKJ]

LOL?

there isn't a single amateur player on the German or Greek Team that played the Euro Fianls last year!

I should clarify.



It is the Worlds and the Olympics.


Or else why would they even consider Okafor?

 

[hckyguy14]

Didn't Team USA Basketball lose the Olmpics and not even medal when their team was by far the best in the tournament. I mean in hockey Canada had the best team on paper but there were 6 other relatively equal teams and a couple of other decent teams. In the Summer Olympics the USA team had ALL of the top players. Probably the only player who could have played on the USA team in the tournament was Ming. They could have picked 5 teams far better than any other country had and they should finish 1-5 in the Olympics. And they didn't medal. Using the team USA basketball model isn't a very good idea.

This is something new that USA Basketball is doing because they don't want to just pick the best players in the world and go and expect to win much like they did last time when they lost.

They are putting them through a tryout and will pick that way for the 2008 Olympics.

My whole point is, your not going to win anything if you pick a team a month before the Olympics and throw them on the ice a day or two before and expect them to gel.

Pick the team with significant time to practice and gel and you will get better results.

 

[Force]

Sorry, no way.
Amateur cannot be the wording no way. Non active NBA contract maybe, never played in the NBA maybe. But even then 1 Guy? What for? To carry the ball-bag?

If you said 6 it would kinda make sense to balance the teams out but then again, no. Can't be.

 

[SChan*]

this whole use amateurs is BS. There are no amateurs in sweden. There are juniors and SEL + NHL players.

 

[GKJ]

Sorry, no way.
Amateur cannot be the wording no way. Non active NBA contract maybe, never played in the NBA maybe. But even then 1 Guy? What for? To carry the ball-bag?

If you said 6 it would kinda make sense to balance the teams out but then again, no. Can't be.

Okefor played in the Olympics, not a huge role but he didn't ride the bench.


Maybe it's demanded by US basketball people but whatever it is, they have to have at least 1 ametaur on their team. In the 2001 Worlds, Jason Williams was on the team and he wasn't even out of college yet

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Okefor played in the Olympics, not a huge role but he didn't ride the bench.


Maybe it's demanded by US basketball people but whatever it is, they have to have at least 1 ametaur on their team. In the 2001 Worlds, Jason Williams was on the team and he wasn't even out of college yet

Since when has this been mandated? I think you might have your information wrong.

 

[reidy]

Didn't Team USA Basketball lose the Olmpics and not even medal when their team was by far the best in the tournament. I mean in hockey Canada had the best team on paper but there were 6 other relatively equal teams and a couple of other decent teams. In the Summer Olympics the USA team had ALL of the top players. Probably the only player who could have played on the USA team in the tournament was Ming. They could have picked 5 teams far better than any other country had and they should finish 1-5 in the Olympics. And they didn't medal. Using the team USA basketball model isn't a very good idea.

This is a new idea introduced AFTER the debacle at the 2004 Games.

And Pau Gasol, Dirk Nowitzki, Steve Nash, Peja, Mehmet Okur, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Tony Parker, and a few others would make Team USA before Yao "The Great Yellow Hype" Ming.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

While I like how USA Basketball is approaching their selection process, I'm not sure if that works for hockey, since hockey players seem to be much more prone to highs/lows in their play, and while a player might be great one year, they can bottom out the next. It's truly who is doing the best very close to the time of competition that should/needs to be chosen. This year's Olympic team was unfortunately set-up by the 2004 World Cup team. The U.S. brass should have blown the place up and went young, setting the stage for the Olympics. There would have been some rouch patches, but in the end we would have been better off with the likes of Dustin Brown, Ryan Miller, and Tim Gleason than Guerin, Esche, and Hedican.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Didn't Team USA Basketball lose the Olmpics and not even medal when their team was by far the best in the tournament. I mean in hockey Canada had the best team on paper but there were 6 other relatively equal teams and a couple of other decent teams. In the Summer Olympics the USA team had ALL of the top players. Probably the only player who could have played on the USA team in the tournament was Ming. They could have picked 5 teams far better than any other country had and they should finish 1-5 in the Olympics. And they didn't medal. Using the team USA basketball model isn't a very good idea.

Team USA hockey just doesn't have the best players and probably won't in most Olympic years, with Sweden, Canada and Russia usually having better teams. You just pick the best players you have and hope your goalie is hot. If he is you win like in 1996 with Richter and if not you lose. Canada lost out at the same time as the USA and they had a better team. You can't win them all and that's just life in a short round robin tournament goaltending is king.

The U.S. won the bronze medal.

 

[hckyguy14]

While I like how USA Basketball is approaching their selection process, I'm not sure if that works for hockey, since hockey players seem to be much more prone to highs/lows in their play, and while a player might be great one year, they can bottom out the next.

Sometimes that can be due to who the player is playing with. If you put a streaky player with guys he plays well with on a consistant basis, then you can somewhat avoid it. I understand you can't avoid it all together, it's a risk, but I still see it better then picking a team a month before they show up to play.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Sometimes that can be due to who the player is playing with. If you put a streaky player with guys he plays well with on a consistant basis, then you can somewhat avoid it. I understand you can't avoid it all together, it's a risk, but I still see it better then picking a team a month before they show up to play.

Frankly, I'm surprised at how much criticism the U.S. team is getting at this point. Didn't all the "experts" label the U.S. team as a long shot at best to even medal? Sometimes you have the desire, but not the horses and that's what happened to the U.S. this year. By and large the best players were on the team this year. Were they the "right" players? a goal here or there and they would have been.

 

[hckyguy14]

Frankly, I'm surprised at how much criticism the U.S. team is getting at this point. Didn't all the "experts" label the U.S. team as a long shot at best to even medal? Sometimes you have the desire, but not the horses and that's what happened to the U.S. this year. By and large the best players were on the team this year. Were they the "right" players? a goal here or there and they would have been.

I understand what your saying. I was one who didn't expect much out of the U.S .team. It was just a thought and idea I had and thought I'd throw it out there.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I understand what your saying. I was one who didn't expect much out of the U.S .team. It was just a thought and idea I had and thought I'd throw it out there.

Well, I would agree that USA Hockey needs some changes, but I think we're ignoring the key issue here, which is the U.S. is in a transition period right now. Many experts predicted that U.S. would struggle, and we did. The team worked hard, the "best" players were present, but in the end we didn't have the high end talent to seal the deal. Hopefully that changes by 2010.

 

[GKJ]

Not many American players are in their prime, and that's why we got smoked and almost lost to Latvia

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Not many American players are in their prime, and that's why we got smoked and almost lost to Latvia

I'm surprised to see such an overly simplistic and inaccurate "explanation" come from you. Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[Snap Wilson]

it is mandated by FIBA that international teams with pro players must have at least 1 ameteur player on it. In 2004, Emeka Okafor was on the team for that reason (he had yet to play an NBA game).

Sorry, GKJ, but this isn't remotely true. USA Basketball has just made a habit of selecting one college player as a paean to the NCAA. They don't have to do it. They played in a few of the WCs without any college players.

Edit: and just to confirm this, check out the Gold Medal winning teams in 1996 and 2000. Not one college player among them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_champions/Basketball

 

[Sens Rule]

For this Olympics - The USA team wasn't a problem. In reality with the talent the USA had they were 6th best in the world. To be knocked out in the Quarters is to be expected. They could have got a medal but they were behind Canada, Sweden, Russia, Checks, Finland in talent. Why would they expect to Medal? They could have for sure but that is if goaltending and luck are in their favour. It wasn't. Canada is the team that failed. USA shouldn't feel bad. They weren't considered a favorite for a medal and they didn't win one. What's the issue? They made the final 8. If they hadn't then that would be an issue but they did and it isn't.

 

[AmericanDream]

Didn't Team USA Basketball lose the Olmpics and not even medal when their team was by far the best in the tournament. I mean in hockey Canada had the best team on paper but there were 6 other relatively equal teams and a couple of other decent teams. In the Summer Olympics the USA team had ALL of the top players. Probably the only player who could have played on the USA team in the tournament was Ming. They could have picked 5 teams far better than any other country had and they should finish 1-5 in the Olympics. And they didn't medal. Using the team USA basketball model isn't a very good idea.

Team USA hockey just doesn't have the best players and probably won't in most Olympic years, with Sweden, Canada and Russia usually having better teams. You just pick the best players you have and hope your goalie is hot. If he is you win like in 1996 with Richter and if not you lose. Canada lost out at the same time as the USA and they had a better team. You can't win them all and that's just life in a short round robin tournament goaltending is king.[/QUOTE]

What are you talking about here? Did you even watch the 96 World Cup? I am actually watching all the games in a row today for my off day, and I do not see the crap you said. We didnt just win because of Mike Richter. The pre-lim round we beat the hell out of Canada 5-3 and trust me the score is not indicitive of the actual game. We destroyed Russia in the prelims also and beat everyone on our way to the finals which was the best set of 3 games that I have ever seen. Canada didnt outplay us in all those games, I will agree with game #2 but the first and third were up and down games were we just outplayed Canada till the end. Mike Richter didnt score 5 goals in 3 of the four games vs. Canada, and the one we did lose we scored 4 goals. You really outplayed us there!

How does Russia and Sweden have better teams then the US in most Olympic years? In 2002 we took the silver and still should have won the gold if Canada didnt have that cakewalk game against Belarus. Didnt we beat Russia to get to the gold medal game? I dont see how either of those countries have or will continue to put out better teams then the Americans since pros have been used. Canada and the Czecks are the 2 I will agree with, but not Russia and the Swedes. You have no proof in that statement at all. I dont even remeber if US and Sweden played eatch other in the last 3 Olympics. To say that we dont have the best players is absolutely stupid since we all know that the best team not its seperate players wins. As a canuck and watching this years Olympic disaster you should know that. I would worry about my own countries hockey problems before worrying about others. When 2010 comes around we will have a great group of players who are just starting to filter into this league. I cant wait to take on those far superior teams in Russia and Sweden come 2010.

 

[arrbez]

Didn't Team USA Basketball lose the Olmpics and not even medal when their team was by far the best in the tournament. I mean in hockey Canada had the best team on paper but there were 6 other relatively equal teams and a couple of other decent teams. In the Summer Olympics the USA team had ALL of the top players. Probably the only player who could have played on the USA team in the tournament was Ming. They could have picked 5 teams far better than any other country had and they should finish 1-5 in the Olympics. And they didn't medal. Using the team USA basketball model isn't a very good idea.

I think you're underestimating the rest of the world. It's really not a huge discrepency anymore, especially since fundamentals and shooting have all but dissapeared from the NBA. The USA is still the bigtime favourite, but IMO they have to be a lot more carefull when they select their team. They can't just slap the top 15 scorers together and expect to win anymore