Smith, 5pts, -5 in last 38 games

[crashman]

Smith has been a very interesting prospect/player for me. He seemed to fall victim to inflated expectations and many seem disappointed with his overall progress. I wanted to believe that he was going to be as successful as many touted him from his success in junior play, however with all prospects, I temper my expectations due to prior prospect failures.

The point of this is this – Smith is still young with plenty of room to grow as player and specifically for offensive defensemen. You don’t abandon a young defensemen with offensive upside whose 25 years old. He has all the tools to be a very impactful defenseman in this league. He, like all young d-men, needs to develop the mind and patience to allow the game to naturally develop, when to be opportunistic, and when to make the simple play.

I'm sorry, but waiting until a player is in his mid/late-20s to start showing competency seems like a bit much. It's not like he's had many flashes of brilliance either. He's been good at times, but mostly mediocre and sometimes downright terrible.

 

[jaster]

Why does everyone clamor for granting jobs to prospects and then when they don't produce immediately give up long before the player even develops?

This.

Also, the Lidstrom comparison.... anyone who has followed this team long enough knows that 50% of our defense prospects get compared to Lidstrom at some point. And most don't even make the NHL. So, relatively speaking, Smith has done pretty well with that comparison

 

[Dotter]

I'm sorry, but waiting until a player is in his mid/late-20s to start showing competency seems like a bit much. It's not like he's had many flashes of brilliance either. He's been good at times, but mostly mediocre and sometimes downright terrible.

I agree. For me, the most exciting part about Smith's game was his physical play. And Wings aren't getting that from him.

If he plays with a bit of an edge and brings the physical presence he was suppose to bring, then I think he might just be an asset to the team. Right now he's nothing more than mediocre at best, and downright garbage on too many nights.

He's looking more like a bust than a middle pairing dman right now. I think he can turn it around... but will he? I'm not feeling too optimistic right now.

 

[Actual Thought*]

This.

Also, the Lidstrom comparison.... anyone who has followed this team long enough knows that 50% of our defense prospects get compared to Lidstrom at some point. And most don't even make the NHL. So, relatively speaking, Smith has done pretty well with that comparison

Yeah, they look at stats and say "lidstrom put up 60 in his rookie season". Most apparently don't understand how special he was or that his game developed over time.

 

[Actual Thought*]

I'm sorry, but waiting until a player is in his mid/late-20s to start showing competency seems like a bit much. It's not like he's had many flashes of brilliance either. He's been good at times, but mostly mediocre and sometimes downright terrible.

Actually most nhl defensemen don't round their game until their late 20s. There is a big learning curve.

 

[14ari13]

Why does everyone clamor for granting jobs to prospects and then when they don't produce immediately give up long before the player even develops?

+1
I've seen it so many times.

I agree. For me, the most exciting part about Smith's game was his physical play. And Wings aren't getting that from him.

If he plays with a bit of an edge and brings the physical presence he was suppose to bring, then I think he might just be an asset to the team. Right now he's nothing more than mediocre at best, and downright garbage on too many nights.

He's looking more like a bust than a middle pairing dman right now. I think he can turn it around... but will he? I'm not feeling too optimistic right now.

Good point about his physical play.

I wonder though if Babcock does not want them to do so. Kronwall does not hit at all anymore.

 

[SoupGuru]

How is one point in 16 games an indication of a huge offensive upside?

 

[Actual Thought*]

How is one point in 16 games an indication of a huge offensive upside?

I agree he will probably never be a hof offensive dman but he will improve. The nhl is much faster than any other level. I think they want him to be responsible in his own end first. He plays like a young guy. He gets dragged into dumb situations like squaring off with Chara. This is a sign of immaturity. He will grow out of it. That said I think it is obvious why he isn't on the pp.

 

[TatarTangle]

Kindl at 175 games: He has to go
Smith at 175 games: Ohhhhh, just give him some more time

And Smith has occasionally looked as bad as Kindl. The only difference is that Smith every 15-20 games or so does something where you think "oh, he might not be that bad of a defenseman"

Smith is Jessica Simpson if she played hockey. You love everything you see at face-value but DUMB. AS. BRICKS. He'll never be anything more than a decent #4, which is fine. Just don't pretend like he's going to be some stud #1-2 defensman.

 

[jaster]

Smith at 175 games is better than Kindl was at 175 games. Just as good offensively, better defense, more physical, and magnitudes higher compete level.

 

[Actual Thought*]

Kindl at 175 games: He has to go
Smith at 175 games: Ohhhhh, just give him some more time

And Smith has occasionally looked as bad as Kindl. The only difference is that Smith every 15-20 games or so does something where you think "oh, he might not be that bad of a defenseman"

Smith is Jessica Simpson if she played hockey. You love everything you see at face-value but DUMB. AS. BRICKS. He'll never be anything more than a decent #4, which is fine. Just don't pretend like he's going to be some stud #1-2 defensman.

He is already a decent #4.

 

[odin1981]

He is already a decent #4.

Why is he slotted in as the #5 then?

 

[TatarTangle]

He is already a decent #4.

Smith is not better than DK or Quincey. Certainly not Kronwall or Ericcson. Despite Big Rig's horrendous turnover last game.

I'll go out on a limb and say Smith could be a decent #3 if he grows a brain

 

[detredWINgs]

Kindl at 175 games: He has to go
Smith at 175 games: Ohhhhh, just give him some more time

And Smith has occasionally looked as bad as Kindl. The only difference is that Smith every 15-20 games or so does something where you think "oh, he might not be that bad of a defenseman"

Smith is Jessica Simpson if she played hockey. You love everything you see at face-value but DUMB. AS. BRICKS. He'll never be anything more than a decent #4, which is fine. Just don't pretend like he's going to be some stud #1-2 defensman.

Kindl has gotten hundreds of PP minutes. That's the big difference.

 

[detredWINgs]

Smith is not better than DK or Quincey. Certainly not Kronwall or Ericcson. Despite Big Rig's horrendous turnover last game.

I'll go out on a limb and say Smith could be a decent #3 if he grows a brain

Anyone thinking Ericsson is better than Smith hasn't checked in in the past 10 months. They're moving in opposite directions.

Also, Ericsson was a horrendous hockey player at 25. Why does everyone forget this? Not sure why people act like Ericsson has anything more than 2 seasons worth of good play over a 3 year span at the age of 30.

This board dream drives me nuts sometimes. I don't even like Smith that much but some of these claims are just outlandish. Just stop for a second and look beyond your personal biases. Smith is not dumb as bricks or a bad passer. He's above average in both respects, albeit minimally and there's little treason he can't build on that.

 

[detredWINgs]

Why is he slotted in as the #5 then?

He was #4 up until a few weeks ago.

 

[TatarTangle]

Anyone thinking Ericsson is better than Smith hasn't checked in in the past 10 months. They're moving in opposite directions.

Also, Ericsson was a horrendous hockey player at 25. Why does everyone forget this? Not sure why people act like Ericsson has anything more than 2 seasons worth of good play over a 3 year span at the age of 30.

This board dream drives me nuts sometimes. I don't even like Smith that much but some of these claims are just outlandish. Just stop for a second and look beyond your personal biases. Smith is not dumb as bricks or a bad passer. He's above average in both respects, albeit minimally and there's little treason he can't build on that.

I didn't say he can't pass. In fact, if you search for it, I've said Smith has all the talent in the world, which he does. He just doesn't have the brains to be a great defenseman. You just aren't going to convince me he does. He just routinely, for the most part, makes stupid decisions with the puck. I'd rather him hold on to it and rush the puck but Babcock would have his balls for that. Which is really a shame because he can push the tempo big time and still have enough left in the tank to get back in position.

 

[Frk It]

Smith is not dumb as bricks or a bad passer. He's above average in both respects, albeit minimally and there's little treason he can't build on that.

I think over the last few weeks his passing has been painfully bad. I do not think he is a bad passer in general though, I have seen him make nice passes while skating at full speed and hitting someone else at full speed through the neutral zone. But I think he can be better than he has been. I would like to see him get an opportunity with better forwards and possibly Kronwall, but I know those things aren't going to happen. I think he plays to the level of the players he plays with to a degree.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

I personally expected this season to be Smith's, not breakout season, but a season where you can see what he is going to be in a few years. Unfortunately it looks like that did happen, but not in the way any Red Wing fan wanted.

I haven't completely jumped off the bandwagon, but it ain't looking good. He keeps making the exact same mistakes and his offensive game is still MIA. Babcock deserves some of the blame, but at the end of the day, Smith is the one on the ice.

 

[PelagicJoe]

Smith (and Kindl for that matter) have had more than enough time to prove themselves. Lids isn't the only dman we had that was great right out the bag. Konstantinov was immediately impressive too. Albeit he was more of a defensive dman, but the point still stands. There has to be a time limit on reaching the point of cutting our losses.

 

[Frk It]

Smith (and Kindl for that matter) have had more than enough time to prove themselves. Lids isn't the only dman we had that was great right out the bag. Konstantinov was immediately impressive too. Albeit he was more of a defensive dman, but the point still stands. There has to be a time limit on reaching the point of cutting our losses.

Dekeyser was pretty good from day 1.

 

[crashman]

Actually most nhl defensemen don't round their game until their late 20s. There is a big learning curve.

Like who? Who are all these defenseman that finally got it together in their late 20s?

 

[Winger98]

I think we've asked Smith to play a game he isn't entirely comfortable with while putting a few too many chains on what made him special. I don't think he's ever going to be a really good defensive D. And his game has always been based around his speed, taking some chances, and pushing the offense. In an effort to minimize mistakes, I think he's minimized those assets too much. Unless we're willing to let him run a bit more, and the mistakes that go with it, I think we are getting what we got. Which is why I think we'd be better off looking to move him, as I don't think he'll ever fit the image of what Babcock wants from him.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Like who? Who are all these defenseman that finally got it together in their late 20s?

Probably upwards of a quarter (I think that is actually low but 25% doesn't seem outlandish) of the really good defenders in the league.

But if you're looking for an example lets just go with the guy who might be a lot of peoples favorite for the Norris right now in Mark Giordano. Stralman would be another good example. Not saying he is either, but tons of D-man start taking bigger leaps after the 200 game mark.

Of course most of that comes with some shift in either responsibility or those kind of factors. Will that happen for him in Detroit? I don't know, really if it isn't going to it would be better for Smith to leave for his own hockey career as well.

 

[odin1981]

He was #4 up until a few weeks ago.

He started the year with Dekeyser as the #4 and that lasted like 5 games. He has never held down a top 4 spot for any length of time. Cue the playoff argument for a 5 game series either. He lacks in hockey sense. And his decision making is suspect. Also KFQ has clearly been more consistent than him. He has been on our third pairing the majority of this year just like he was last year. The only time he moves up in the lineup is when an injury to a top 4 defender happens.

It wouldn't surprise me if he is traded within two years. He is a LH playing R defense and we should have 2 prospects pushing for a spot soon next year (marchenko and jensen). Who both are not high risk high reward type players such as smith. They play safer and more responsible and also a big deal for Babs is they both play simple games. If he doesn't start showing something soon it wouldn't surprise me if he gets shipped off in a year or two. His time is running out and he hasn't shown one bit of consistency. He is also not gonna come cheap either soon while he is not a ufa he has played in the league for a couple years and is gonna be somewhere in the 2.5-3.5 range per year. And he is not a shut down d nor is he a point producer so why would he still hang around?