Should we strongly consider Trading W. Nylander while his value is high?

[ShaneFalco]

Lets trade to guy who has best priced contract in team. What an absolute great idea. Trade Tavares if someone wants him.

How many times does it need to be said - full nmc and captain. Shit Dubas and his puppet coach played Thornton everywhere in order to keep him happy you think they'll upset JT?!

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Do we expect Nylanders value to down? I don't see how we get better by trading him.

I know Matthews and Marner set the bar pretty high but Nylander wpuld have led 14 different teams in scoring and would have been 2nd on another 4 teams.

The offer would have to be ridiculous to even consider it.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Yup, I think so too. LA might make a lot of sense, don't know that much about what's going on down there but from the little I do know, young team on the rise might be an accurate description.

I'm an optimist though. I'm encouraged by how well we played in these playoffs and if Dubas can somehow find us a #1 goalie, I like our chances next season. M&M were both really good in these playoffs and they obviously love playing together, that doesn't hurt either so I think Matthews stays right where he is.

I think it’s almost a guarantee that he leaves for a winning team in the US. Probably a team like Florida or Dallas in a low tax jurisdiction.

The leafs aside from being in a higher tax jurisdiction in Canada have a losing culture that I’m sure Matthews wants to shed asap.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Do we expect Nylanders value to down? I don't see how we get better by trading him.

I know Matthews and Marner set the bar pretty high but Nylander wpuld have led 14 different teams in scoring and would have been 2nd on another 4 teams.

The offer would have to be ridiculous to even consider it.

Nylander while a dynamic player is also guilty of disappearing for long stretches of both the regular season and playoffs. He reminds me of Alexei Kovalev. Supremely talented but not 100% committed every game. For a team with accountability issues this is just a bad fit.

For teams desperate for offence I think you could get a great return. First round pick, and top prospects. Maybe another top pairing D man. Not to mention freeing up $7M in cap space some of which could be used to sign or trade for a top goaltender.

These are changes that need to happen. The leafs need to boost goaltending and add depth. Particular depth by adding big bodied players with high compete levels.

 

[ACC1224]

Do we expect Nylanders value to down? I don't see how we get better by trading him.

I know Matthews and Marner set the bar pretty high but Nylander wpuld have led 14 different teams in scoring and would have been 2nd on another 4 teams.

The offer would have to be ridiculous to even consider it.

He may lead other teams but he would no longer have Matthews and Marner ahead of him to take the tougher matchups. Teams design their game plans to shut those two down not Nylander. We haven’t seen Nylander as the top dog, focal point of the team.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I think it’s almost a guarantee that he leaves for a winning team in the US. Probably a team like Florida or Dallas in a low tax jurisdiction.

The leafs aside from being in a higher tax jurisdiction in Canada have a losing culture that I’m sure Matthews wants to shed asap.

Pointless argument. Many say no way he leaves, some say he leaves but nobody knows for sure, hell maybe he doesn't even know yet and the word "guarantee" is out of place here.

As far as losing culture goes, he's the highest profile player on this team and if he jumps ships before this team has won anything, he'll never shed that as long as he lives.

Nylander while a dynamic player is also guilty of disappearing for long stretches of both the regular season and playoffs. He reminds me of Alexei Kovalev. Supremely talented but not 100% committed every game. For a team with accountability issues this is just a bad fit.

For teams desperate for offence I think you could get a great return. First round pick, and top prospects. Maybe another top pairing D man. Not to mention freeing up $7M in cap space some of which could be used to sign or trade for a top goaltender.

These are changes that need to happen. The leafs need to boost goaltending and add depth. Particular depth by adding big bodied players with high compete levels.

You think Matthews is leaving, I think the most likely player to leave is Nylander and that's another HUGE reason to consider trading him.

 

[Dynamite Kid]

It all depends on what we get in return. I would also really consider signing Kadri again. The guy plays with heart and is an UFA come July. Another UFA this summer is Johnny Gaudreau. Although small he is another that plays with heart.

Bunting - Matthews - Gaudreau
Kadri - Tavares - Marner.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Between some combination of Mitch Willy and Rielly we need to end up with a top tender and a top 2way defender .. if all 3 go then we also need to get a top 10 pick in the 2022 draft and a power forward with speed

 

[Riverfront]

tavares, mathews, marner
marchand, bergeron, krejci
kampf, bunting, kerfoot
blackwell, spezza, robertson

doughty, muzzin
reilly, brodie,
giordano, chara
lillegren sandin

rask
wall
( 2023 roster )
outside the box dubas this summer :
trade 4 first round picks for marchand
trade william nylander to L.A. for drew doughty
sign : patrice bergeron in free agency
sign ; chara, rask, , krejci, to one year 1 milllion dollar deals. ( 5 ex bruins play together one last time before
all retire after winning a cup in toronto ) basketball style where friends play together for a year
is it possible sure it is with outside the box planning.

 

[BlueBaron]

I voted no but wish to qualify that. I don't think we should trade him just because his value is high. I'm open to trading him if it makes sense but not just for the sake of change.

We were a lucky bounce away from taking Tampa, our team just needs the usual adjustments from free agents. We could break him up into a goalie and a D or something which could work but it would depend on who they were. We also have Kerfoot with a a noticeable hit but I like his versatility. He can basically cover any injury in our top6 and that is damn useful. Nylander can't do that really but Kerfoot can't get a point a game without a year beside Marner which Willy can.

Dubas has a sliver under 8 mil to re sign Kase, Engval, Timmy and Sandin and either sign or replace Bush, Gio Campbell, Spezza, Mikhayev. If we can recover Mrazeks 3.8 Dubas is at 11.6 which sorts all of that out. Might lose Gio and Campbell and almost certainly Mikhayev.

I don't see that we need to trade either but I would lean toward Kerfoot if I was picking one. 3.5 mil is a fair bit. Maybe I'm just not imagining a sexy enough return? Not interested in picks and probably only in a few types of prospects like a future starter or a big future top 9 C. What am I getting for Nylander? A 7 mil D-man for the top pair? I might be open to that but no one spring to mind as an obvious candidate.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Pointless argument. Many say no way he leaves, some say he leaves but nobody knows for sure, hell maybe he doesn't even know yet and the word "guarantee" is out of place here.

As far as losing culture goes, he's the highest profile player on this team and if he jumps ships before this team has won anything, he'll never shed that as long as he lives.


You think Matthews is leaving, I think the most likely player to leave is Nylander and that's another HUGE reason to consider trading him.

Nylander should be traded regardless of Matthews situation. However Matthews no trade kicks in in July of 2023 and if the leafs don't have an extension worked out with him by next spring then Matthews is gone too or they will lose him for nothing.

It all depends on what we get in return. I would also really consider signing Kadri again. The guy plays with heart and is an UFA come July. Another UFA this summer is Johnny Gaudreau. Although small he is another that plays with heart.

Bunting - Matthews - Gaudreau
Kadri - Tavares - Marner.

Neither Kadri or Gaudreau have been reliable in the playoffs.

 

[Chimpradamus]

It all depends on what we get in return. I would also really consider signing Kadri again. The guy plays with heart and is an UFA come July. Another UFA this summer is Johnny Gaudreau. Although small he is another that plays with heart.

Bunting - Matthews - Gaudreau
Kadri - Tavares - Marner.

Good luck handling that salary to have anything else to spend on other team parts.

 

[SwissLeaf]

Sometimes when I see Nylander, I think that he's similar to a friend of mine.... not in a good way.

He's playing in the 3rd highest Swiss league (amateur). If his willingness would be as high as his talent, he would play in the highest league as a pro. When he wants to play, the other players on the ice are pylons.

Nylander is similar (obviously a lot better... lol). Sometimes it's frustrating. He's got all the talent. With that being said, I'm still a huge fan (of both ).

Would it be smart to trade him? Depends on the return.
Would I be happy, if he's traded? Hell no... It would have to be a robbery for me to be happy to see him leave.

Tough decision.

(my English is getting worse, I should come over to TO for a few weeks to re-fresh it... haha)

 

[Menzinger]

Do we expect Nylanders value to down? I don't see how we get better by trading him.

I know Matthews and Marner set the bar pretty high but Nylander wpuld have led 14 different teams in scoring and would have been 2nd on another 4 teams.

The offer would have to be ridiculous to even consider it.

There's also the fact he has another year under contract. It's not even a pressing issue for the team.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

tavares, mathews, marner
marchand, bergeron, krejci
kampf, bunting, kerfoot
blackwell, spezza, robertson

doughty, muzzin
reilly, brodie,
giordano, chara
lillegren sandin

rask
wall
( 2023 roster )
outside the box dubas this summer :
trade 4 first round picks for marchand
trade william nylander to L.A. for drew doughty
sign : patrice bergeron in free agency
sign ; chara, rask, , krejci, to one year 1 milllion dollar deals. ( 5 ex bruins play together one last time before
all retire after winning a cup in toronto ) basketball style where friends play together for a year
is it possible sure it is with outside the box planning.

my first time signing on in 3 days and first thing I see is this.

DraftSchmaft has left the chat

 

[Menzinger]

Let me explain something to you guys who think Nylander is bad at defense.

Defense in hockey is not a skill like skating or shooting (and even shooting can be subdivided into types of shots - some players are known for being extremely good at one type of shot).

There are different types of defenses in hockey just like there are different types of defenses in football and basketball. It's not a general thing. Nobody says that Deion Sanders was bad at defense because he doesn't get a lot of QB sacks, his job was to prevent receivers from catching the ball and he was one of the GOATs at it. Similarly, Kawhi is not considered a bad defender because he doesn't block a lot of shots, his primary skill is perimeter defense. Shot blockers typically excel at help defense and paint defense in basketball.

Transition defense which occurs in the offensive zone and neutral zone is something Nylander is really good at.

Nylander is not great at shutting down a sustained forecheck - this is a skill that is typically reserved for defencemen and occasionally centers. Matthews is actually pretty good at disrupting a sustained zone forecheck. Wingers typically have less responsibilities although their are guys like Stone, Marchand, Pacioretty, Marner, Hossa etc. who take on non-traditional roles for two way wingers.

The are very few hockey players in the entire history of the NHL that were good at all types of defense.

Defense in hockey is primarily a team concept and despite the moniker, defencemen are not necessarily primarily responsible for defense. Everyone on the ice as a role based on the system, their individual abilities and the coach's ability to recognize it. Hockey is a two way sport that is increasingly becoming less positionally rigid. The increase in the usage of the three man blue line over the last several years is a really good example of that.

When people say "trade Nylander for more defense" you're not just sacrificing his offensive contributions to the team but you've also gotten worse at transition defense as well. It's not quite the same as trading a runningback for a defensive end as many of you seem to imply here.

Yep. There's also the issue that the majority of Leafs playoff exits has been beacuse of a lack of offense, not keeping the puck out of the net. Trading Nylander for a D man especially isn't going to fix that.

The Leafs 1st line hasn't proven it can carry a team offensively in the playoffs yet. And removing the teams best secondary scoring threat doesn't seem wise to me given the circumstances.

 

[PeE eL DuBoiS]

Then we just end up with a Nylander hole in the lineup. We replaced Hyman with Bunting. We probably won't get lucky like that for a second time.

We need to fix our goaltending situation with Mrazek. Campbell isn't the answer. I only deal Nylander if it's involved with this.

 

[TheRumble]

Yep. There's also the issue that the majority of Leafs playoff exits has been beacuse of a lack of offense, not keeping the puck out of the net. Trading Nylander for a D man especially isn't going to fix that.

The Leafs 1st line hasn't proven it can carry a team offensively in the playoffs yet. And removing the teams best secondary scoring threat doesn't seem wise to me given the circumstances.

I'd say this year the Leafs first and second lines did a fine job. They literally scored every goal in the final 3 games for us.

In previous years it was true though. One line was usually shut down.

What lost us this series:

- Not taking Games 2 and 4 very seriously
- Special teams, PK was solved after Game 1, PP was solved from the outset.
- Undisciplined penalties
- Lack of depth scoring outside of Game 3.
- Not enough offensive contribution from the defencemen. This is why I wanted something like Liljegren in the lineup.

 

[2 Slick]

What lost us this series:

- Not taking Games 2 and 4 very seriously
- Special teams, PK was solved after Game 1, PP was solved from the outset.
- Undisciplined penalties
- Lack of depth scoring outside of Game 3.
- Not enough offensive contribution from the defencemen. This is why I wanted something like Liljegren in the lineup.

- None of the core four scoring a goal in game 7 when it mattered most. Same as every game 7.

 

[ShaneFalco]

- None of the core four scoring a goal in game 7 when it mattered most. Same as every game 7.

Yeah it's the same story

I'd say this year the Leafs first and second lines did a fine job. They literally scored every goal in the final 3 games for us.

In previous years it was true though. One line was usually shut down.

What lost us this series:

- Not taking Games 2 and 4 very seriously
- Special teams, PK was solved after Game 1, PP was solved from the outset.
- Undisciplined penalties
- Lack of depth scoring outside of Game 3.
- Not enough offensive contribution from the defencemen. This is why I wanted something like Liljegren in the lineup.

So basically the same story for 3+ years

 

[Clark4Ever]

The only scenario I'd consider trading Nylander is if we get back a winger about the same age with a comparable contract that can put up almost as many points and has an edge to his game.

 

[HEAVY DUTY]

The only scenario I'd consider trading Nylander is if we get back a winger about the same age with a comparable contract that can put up almost as many points and has an edge to his game.

Tom Wilson. 3 years older, cheaper contract (5.1M for 2 years left). Scores about 20 points less than Willy but has an edge.

 

[nuck]

Do we expect Nylanders value to down? I don't see how we get better by trading him.

I know Matthews and Marner set the bar pretty high but Nylander wpuld have led 14 different teams in scoring and would have been 2nd on another 4 teams.

The offer would have to be ridiculous to even consider it.

We have to look at the whole situation with Willie and not just "does he make the club better" which we know he does. Whether $40M on 4 players makes sense has been beaten to death so lets just consider it as a subcap. That leaves $40M for everyone else so you are trying to fill out most of your lineup with players making under $2M.

If he is gone and you promote a young internal forward to his spot that's far from an upgrade but that leaves maybe $5M to upgrade your spend on the bottom 6 guys so you change the whole look of the 3rd-4th lines. There is a significant difference between guys that will play for $1.25M and the ones you can't get for less than $2.5. It can be the difference between table scraps and players who can give you post season impact.

If WN is out for even a $5M player that would have given almost $6M for a 1a goalie instead of the $3.8 they spent. If you could get back a quality young winger on his 1st contract you would be saving a lot more than that over the next couple of years. If they had moved him 2 years ago they could have Pietrangelo instead of either Muzz or Brodie.

Above of those immediate considerations is the fact the guy has 2 years left on the current deal and is not going to sign for less than $9M so they may end up with $45M+ on 4 guys when AMs next deal comes at the same time. We know there are no discounts coming from the Nylanders and his final year brings in a 10 team NTC that may drasti8cally affect the potential return. Yes JT is the logical move but he isn't moving. Not moving Willie this summer may mean subjecting the club to another 5+ years of cap imbalance. There are cheaper players out there that won't be looking for over $9M in 2 years and that is as important as the lineup next fall.

The club dug an unanticipated hole with the original signing the big 4 but it doesn't need to be permanent. They just have to get a reasonable return that relieves cap pressure instead of sustaining it.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Tom Wilson. 3 years older, cheaper contract (5.1M for 2 years left). Scores about 20 points less than Willy but has an edge.

I would consider that deal for sure, but Washington would have to add a sweetener.

 

[seanlinden]

Personally... I think the time is right to move Nylander.

As many of the talking heads have discussed it may be at a point with Tavares that he's a better winger than a centre.

One of the "values" that Kerfoot brought to the table is his ability to play C in the top 6, although Matthews & Tavares stayed healthy for the most part making it unnecessary. If the Leafs are going to move on from Kerfoot, they'll need a centre, unless they also ditch Nylander for a centre.

Mark Scheifele could be an ideal target, Brock Nelson another or Nick Schmaltz. JT Miller or Bo Horvat in vancouver too.

It's not just the roughly ~$1m saved when going from Nylander to one of those guys, but the fact that you then don't really need to spend $3.5m on Kerfoot to have a player capable of stepping into a top 6 role, because Kampf obviously can't.

Nylander, because of his age and offensive upside, could theoretically return an ideal #2C, plus cap relief, plus picks/prospects to be able to use at the deadline. May not have quite enough value on his own to get Scheifele, but would theoretically be a pretty good start.