Should we go for Trotz
- Thread starter saltming
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Seath The Scaleless
Paledrake
My question is, will Trotz dress the best players in the playoffs or leave some in the press box (Lily)?
ShaneFalco
Registered User
I'd love to k.ow if it was solely Keefe who decided to.play Thornton everywhere last year. Or to pull Lilly for Holl. To leave 34 and 16 together in the Habs debacle.
The fact that Nick Paul scored the only 2 goals in game 7 tells you a lot.
His first goal was on a Tampa Bay odd man rush where he fired in a rebound off the rush at speed.
The second goal, he walked right past TJ Brodie right into the slot and scored.
Do you think those were blatantly stinky goals Campbell should have had?
Are either of those two goals shining examples of a commitment to excellent team defence?
Where were the Leaf forwards?
I’ll tell you where they were. They were all caught back up ice after they gambled on their own rush and failed to score. The difference was Nick Paul back-checked hard which led to the Tampa Bay odd-man rush going back the other way which he subsequently scored on.
Look at the difference between when Tampa Bay locked down for the entire third period of game 7 to protect their one goal lead, versus the Leafs trying to lock down their one goal lead in the third of game six which would have won them the series.
Tampa completely collapsed around their own net and were all diving in front of every shot to block it and they survived 20 minutes doing so.
The Leafs in game 6, weren’t as committed, and Kucherov scored at the nine minute mark to tie the game. The Leafs subsequently lost in overtime as we all know.
There is a reason Tampa is currently the better team and won the series and it wasn’t the refereeing
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The number of people who have convinced themselves that this team is just a minor tweak or two away from seriously contending is mind-blowing.
Coaches are supposed to add value to their teams. You could maybe convince me that Keefe did that this regular season, but if you think that extends to the playoffs and elimination games in particular, I don't even know what to say.
Me either.
They seemingly have different philosophical views on how to win.
At least when they lost the press conferences would be entertaining.
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
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I kind of question Dubas' compatibility playing nicely with others sometimes. A mark of a great executive is they like to surround themselves with the best and brightest, but how many industry veterans has Kyle surrounded himself with that aren't new age hockey people? All we saw was a brain drain when he came on board as GM full time and since then he's made a ton of out of the box hires but not a lot of people in management that would be considered guys who recently won or build interesting programs elsewhere in the NHL.
PromisedLand
I need more FOOD
Should only go after Trotz if we have a new GM (which we should btw). Person like Trotz probably won't work for a GM like Dubas to begin with.
Did you alrady forget what Dubas did to Babcock?
- waived McBackup and forced sparks to play
- forced ceci and barrie; petan+malgin etc...
babcock wanted different kind of players, dubas sabotaged babcock. it was clear as day with what was going on.
Did you alrady forget what Dubas did to Babcock?
- waived McBackup and forced sparks to play
- forced ceci and barrie; petan+malgin etc...
babcock wanted different kind of players, dubas sabotaged babcock. it was clear as day with what was going on.
L..A was singing the praise of Danault this year. He seems to be a very underrated player that people just find a difficult time believing is very good
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
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Dubas is a bright guy and does many things well, but he also started from an unconventional hockey philosophy and team construction, and leveling out over time towards a more conventional build as we go along.
Looking back, it's such a waste of time that we spent 2018, 2019, 2020 allowing a guy who is my age to learn about the intricacies of the game on Leafs Nation time. He's going to be better and wiser as time goes on but damn if he didn't just build a standard bottom six and prioritize better blueline construction all those years. So many unnecessary growing pains at the executive board room level, behind the bench and on the ice. I just feel sad at how the whole process unfolded.
Yep... Babs was right about them all including Holl.
Had he only worked with his veteran coach...rather than against him. I am not saying Babs was a Saint but the types of players he was asking for are the type of players Dubas is now trying to get.
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Torontonian
Registered User
With current personal, team isn't built to play under Trotz. Trotz sacrifices team offensive and has everyone to buy in and play D-first hockey, Toronto current roster forward wise can't play like that, should it be the way we play to win? Maybe, but for Toronto to play how Trotz wants to play, they would need to re-tool their roster.
Odd man rush caused by blatant interference and tripping on Engvall at the blue line allowing the puck to squirt out and spring Tampa for 2 on 1.
Teams have two defensemen. Note that Brodie's backup was a forward. Where was his partner, Jake Muzzin? Having his stick ripped out of his hand by Killorn (who, I might add, is down on the ice and thus out of the f***ing play). Yet another uncalled bit of interference holding.
Maybe the problem is the Leafs aren't as willing to break the rules every shift? No, that can't be, the number of penalties they took in this series suggest that they're breaking the rules more than anyone else in the playoffs...
You mean he wanted more Patrick Marleaus, don't you? Babcock LOVED Patrick Marleau, even when it was obvious he was done.
I think the Leafs are too much of rule followers myself... the Holl interference was as blatant as they come. He even had the old Steve Urkel "did I do that" look on his face. Maybe Matthews should have embellished a bit and fell down when his jersey was being pulled...
I blame that on coaching, myself. Did Keefe NEVER realize at any point in this series that the refs were going to call shit on the Leafs no matter what, so they should stop worrying about avoiding penalties and just play their game? I don't think he did.
PromisedLand
I need more FOOD
Speaking articulately doesn't mean bright IMO. I see that often in my work with great articulation people yap about machine learning all the time throwing sophisticated vocabulary then go on to say "we are still training"; these are the guys that have ZERO knowledge or experience in the subject matter yet act like they know more than folks who have spent most of their careers in the field.
As for learning on the job still and wasting time. Well that time is gone and not coming back. 2 more years of matthews and nylander with aging tavares.
I like to think of building a successful team like building a residential building. If the foundation is garbage no matter what kind of modern art and tech you use the building is gonna fall down.
The foundation that dubas laid by handing out those contracts, cap allocation, and then the cap and team structure was faulty to begin with. The team culture from top to bottom is soft and accepting of mediocre results with patting themselves on the back. They are too easily satisfied and drink their own koolaid.
Just contract cooper's comments before Game 7 compared to how Keefe went about his business. The mentality of the team is a reflection of the mentality of their GM. Soft, easily satisfied, self absorbed and fragile.
Exactly what I said earlier. Even when the win sometime it would be a great media scrum with him
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
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Funny you use residential buildings as an example. I'm actually an architect!
I actually think of the Leafs problem as being more of a Lamborghini Diablo trying to run the Dakar Rally. It's a beautiful machine and extremely expensive but not really built for purpose and can't handle the rough off road and endurance stuff that is the NHL playoffs.
nuck
Registered User
- Aug 18, 2005
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The fact that the Leafs thought adding an aging dangler D was the only thing necessary this year tells you a lot as well. Paul went for Mathieu Joseph and a fourth. Was Dubas forbidden to do any real spending this season after spending unwisely last TD? I can see no Hagel at that price but why no Paul? Sorry I know that wasn't your point, but when I read it I thought yeah, either we figured our roster was too good to improve on or dad took Kyle's keys away. So either Dubas f##ked the team by not adding or someone further up the food chain f**ked the GM which is a lot more disturbing if the club's goal is to actually win in the playoffs. I want to be mad at someone here but I am now confused why the wallet could come out last year for the 5th overall Leafs but not for this season's 4th overall club. Maybe Simmons will address that in the season ending presser.
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