HFBS
Noted Troublemaker
- Jan 18, 2015
- 2,200
- 2,264
Should the Rangers fire David Quinn?
- Thread starter Allan92
- Start date
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I’m not a fan of Quinn and I don’t think he’s done well adapting in game, adapting to other coaches, always getting his guys prepared or making the best roster decisions, but even I say no to this. We had a better season than expected, our young guys are developing (for the most part), and guys like Buch, Strome, Zib all have done well under Quinn as well. He gets at least another year before we look for a coach who is better at making adjustments and managing games. We’re still in development mode and that’s what Quinn was brought in for.
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
Rangers394
Registered User
- Aug 5, 2020
- 902
- 845
As long as our young guys develop, he's fine with me. When we are ready to take the next step, i'm sure the team will find a coach if he isn't the guy at that time.
If you don't even see the slightest possible logic behind offseason reviews (which I seemingly invented today apparently) then what's the point of going at it?
Chaels Arms
Formerly Lias Andersson
This is how I feel. The choices on this poll are pretty bad.
The only caveat is if Gallant is willing to come here then I would be OK making the switch ASAP. I don't get the feeling that MSG brass would be comfortable with Gallant though.
EdJovanovski
#FreeRempe
KirkAlbuquerque
#WeNeverGetAGoodCoach
Maybe it's my anger and disgust talking but I chose option A, fire him immediately. I've never seen a coach pantsed like that by another coach before in a playoff series.
Joey Bones
***** 2k16
No, give him another year under an actual team to compete with. I do want him and his coaching staff to better prepare a team for playoff hockey. What they showed in the bubble was a complete travesty. Once he proves to fail or succeed in that regard will determine the firing.
Ghost of jas
Unsatisfied
I want the option "no, but next year will be the telling year for him". His clock, IMO, starts next season.
haohmaru
boomshakalaka
broadwayblue
Registered User
Harbour Dog
Registered User
I don't think I agree with any of these options.
Firing him now, or planning to do so, wouldn't make much sense; it isn't like we had a roster that was ready to be competitive this year. But at the same time, his results with the young guys are mixed and communication seems to be a concern mentioned by all three of our recent top 10 picks.
Firing him seems reflexive and wrong, but he hasn't instilled enough confidence in me to defend him. Maybe we should just give him more time to push the young guys and to put his fingerprints on our identity before we decide his worth.
Firing him now, or planning to do so, wouldn't make much sense; it isn't like we had a roster that was ready to be competitive this year. But at the same time, his results with the young guys are mixed and communication seems to be a concern mentioned by all three of our recent top 10 picks.
Firing him seems reflexive and wrong, but he hasn't instilled enough confidence in me to defend him. Maybe we should just give him more time to push the young guys and to put his fingerprints on our identity before we decide his worth.
Thanks for your valuable input, I hope you didn't take too much time out of your exhaustive schedule to contribute
IMO the only time firing a coach is a simple yes/no question is if things have become so toxic that you can't afford to have the guy around the team another day. and while quinn has his flaws and can do things better I don't think anyone actually we believes we are in that situation. so its not a question of quinn yes or no, it is quinn vs ?? who is out there that wasn't when we hired quinn that might be better for the job we need? are gallant and laviolette development coaches that are best suited working with such a young team? why did gallant wear out his welcome in vegas so quickly despite having success?
the 3 game embarrassment against carolina aside, things have gone pretty well here in terms of the rebuild and the disappointment from this series comes from the belief that we are way ahead of where we thought we would be. are there things that can be improved? absolutely but there have been an awful lot of positives too so you don't make a coaching change cause you are bored. can quinn take us to the next level? well that is part of the discussion of weighing him vs other options cause there are alot of unemployed coaches that probably can't either.
the 3 game embarrassment against carolina aside, things have gone pretty well here in terms of the rebuild and the disappointment from this series comes from the belief that we are way ahead of where we thought we would be. are there things that can be improved? absolutely but there have been an awful lot of positives too so you don't make a coaching change cause you are bored. can quinn take us to the next level? well that is part of the discussion of weighing him vs other options cause there are alot of unemployed coaches that probably can't either.
Rangers394
Registered User
- Aug 5, 2020
- 902
- 845
What did you expect to do with this roster? We don't exactly have the 80s Oilers on this team.
KirkAlbuquerque
#WeNeverGetAGoodCoach
You’re right. He seems like a cool dude but he got exposed hard. He doesn’t really have a game plan or a system to speak of. Probably gives great locker speeches and pressers but not a tactician in the slightest.
Rangers394
Registered User
- Aug 5, 2020
- 902
- 845
I would hope that we don't need a coach that has to babysit our players every step of the way. Hopefully our players are mature enough to execute any gameplan they work on. Let's get some better players and then see what happens. We were beating Carolina in the first period of game 3, just couldn't score and then we died in periods 2 and 3. Missed chances did us in as usual.
Can't always blame the coach when the players are shit/playing like shit. At some point, they need to wake up and play. If we were some cup favorite team and we got humiliated by a shit team, fire him. We are a rebuilding team who had no business even being where we were. Have some patience and see what happens when we get rid of some of the trash on this roster.
17futurecap
Registered User
He will get next year, and hopefully has a chance to show a better effort in the playoffs.
If they finish 10-11th in the east again and there isn’t a litany of injuries, I imagine a change would be made.
If they finish 10-11th in the east again and there isn’t a litany of injuries, I imagine a change would be made.
Kravtsov420
Registered User
- May 4, 2019
- 5,633
- 7,500
Listen, my issues with Quinn really reside with a couple of main reoccurring themes.
I have severe doubts in his ability to develop players. I know people will point to Adam Fox and Tony D. In my opinion, while I do give him credit there, they’re unique cases in the fact both of them are older than most of the other younger players. I don’t think anyone can say they expected Adam Fox to be as talented as he was. And I will give Quinn credit for Tony because I think the main limitation for him was the maturity issues to where someone stubborn like Quinn taught him to mature.
My main problems with Quinn stem from his “development” of our young forwards. There are a bunch of factors that can impact a player’s development, some of them may not even be hockey related but could be a personal or cultural related thing.
Looking at it from strictly a hockey point of view (meaning how the players are used, how they’re taught, what are the on ice expectations, etc.) I really don’t like what I see. And it keeps coming back to this: should opportunity be given or should it be earned? Of course people love when a player earns an opportunity, and because of David Quinn’s personality, it’s the only way he allows players to get ample opportunity. I don’t think it’s a bad thing to allow opportunity to be “earned,” however, it’s the interpretation of how someone earns an opportunity that bothers me. He is inconsistent in his determination on who “Earns” an opportunity to play in the top 6/9. Inconsistency in treating similar behavior between multiple people is a sign of unfairness and bias.
Player A, who in this case, let’s assume has a specific skill set geared towards an energy/pk role, takes a bad penalty that directly leads to a goal. Let’s also say that he had a great PK earlier in the game. In this case, let’s say the coach continues to throw Player A out on the ice even though he was a direct reason for a goal against. In fact, Player A is on the ice for the last 5 minutes of the game when the team is down by a goal even though a skilled player is more suitable in this situation.
Player B, lets assume is geared towards skill and making his impact on the game in that regard. Let’s say that he also takes a bad penalty, however, that doesn’t lead to a direct goal against. In fact, Player B has actually scored two goals but is benched because of the bad penalty taken.
The same exact circumstances, but different treatment. Because the game is not played by robots (yet), Player B notices preferential treatment of exact same circumstances between him and Player A.
I think we all know who and what is being described above. Because of these inherent biases and thought processes in the way Quinn’s head perceives how the world works (which could be influenced by his own personal experience, etc), In Player B’s head, he’s thinking how he could ever expect to have the same opportunity as Player A? He already knows from first hand experience that the inconsistent treatment between players for similar actions indicates a compromised determination of opportunity.
We can keep saying a player isn’t ready, like Kakko, like Kravtsov, like, yep, Lias Anderson (and you can’t convince me otherwise that the LA situation didn’t occur due to what I just described above and as a result he felt helpless, like there was nothing he could say/do to convince DQ to give him an opportunity), but you have to give them a fair opportunity in the first place. And by fair opportunity, I mean you need to put them in a position to succeed and do every possible f***ing thing under the sun to make sure of it. That means yes, permanently putting guys like Kakko and Kravtsov on the first and second line for the entire season. One of the best ways to develop a skill is through repetition. Practicing and doing something over and over again until it becomes second nature. And yes, that ESPECIALLY means being able to fail at times while doing this. Failure is one of the greatest teachers. “Okay, that didn’t work, let’s analyze, and take a different approach the next time. Through this comes maturity, and at least, development. The truth is even when a player gets an opportunity, as soon as a mistake is made, he’s reprimanded (see player B above). Now you are conditioning player B to be conscious and second guess every decision he makes with and without the puck. Player B knows that his opportunity could be taken away just as quick as it was given, and with this coach, who knows if the player will ever get that opportunity again.
Like I said, one of the most important parts of development is getting the reps in and being allowed to fail, and learning from those failures. And in our case the kids will get the opportunity to also learn from the likes of Z-bad and Panarin while also creating chemistry with them. I’m not speaking out of my ass (please see Blackhawks, Chicago - who play guys like Kubalik, Dach, etc. with established vets like Kane and Toews - also see how the young guns have been tearing it up and have had a serious impact on that series).
And then add on the fact that we have players who have no future with this organization taking up those top 9/6 spots instead of giving key minutes to the youngins. And please don’t bring Hartford up and say that’s what it’s for. Due to years of neglect, it’s not a realistic option. The fact of the matter is we are in a rebuild, and while the winning was all nice and felt emotionally satisfying like a quick fix, I’d give it up to have Kakko, Kravtsov play close to 20 minutes a night and get in the growing pains now, so they can actually develop and we could have a deep lineup when we are ready to compete.
It’s not anomaly what’s happened to Lias Anderson, not with Kravtsov and going back to Russia, not with Kakko with getting thrown off the top PP unit for the entire year for Ryan Strome. History tends to repeat itself, so don’t be shocked and when this happens again. And all the numb skulls here will say “what a baby, go home and cry, etc) instead of actually trying to intellectually analyze what is going on and notice that the water they drank is tainted and that there is a fundamental issue with this organizations approaches to development.
*sir, this is a McDonalds drive through*
... you get my point.
I have severe doubts in his ability to develop players. I know people will point to Adam Fox and Tony D. In my opinion, while I do give him credit there, they’re unique cases in the fact both of them are older than most of the other younger players. I don’t think anyone can say they expected Adam Fox to be as talented as he was. And I will give Quinn credit for Tony because I think the main limitation for him was the maturity issues to where someone stubborn like Quinn taught him to mature.
My main problems with Quinn stem from his “development” of our young forwards. There are a bunch of factors that can impact a player’s development, some of them may not even be hockey related but could be a personal or cultural related thing.
Looking at it from strictly a hockey point of view (meaning how the players are used, how they’re taught, what are the on ice expectations, etc.) I really don’t like what I see. And it keeps coming back to this: should opportunity be given or should it be earned? Of course people love when a player earns an opportunity, and because of David Quinn’s personality, it’s the only way he allows players to get ample opportunity. I don’t think it’s a bad thing to allow opportunity to be “earned,” however, it’s the interpretation of how someone earns an opportunity that bothers me. He is inconsistent in his determination on who “Earns” an opportunity to play in the top 6/9. Inconsistency in treating similar behavior between multiple people is a sign of unfairness and bias.
Player A, who in this case, let’s assume has a specific skill set geared towards an energy/pk role, takes a bad penalty that directly leads to a goal. Let’s also say that he had a great PK earlier in the game. In this case, let’s say the coach continues to throw Player A out on the ice even though he was a direct reason for a goal against. In fact, Player A is on the ice for the last 5 minutes of the game when the team is down by a goal even though a skilled player is more suitable in this situation.
Player B, lets assume is geared towards skill and making his impact on the game in that regard. Let’s say that he also takes a bad penalty, however, that doesn’t lead to a direct goal against. In fact, Player B has actually scored two goals but is benched because of the bad penalty taken.
The same exact circumstances, but different treatment. Because the game is not played by robots (yet), Player B notices preferential treatment of exact same circumstances between him and Player A.
I think we all know who and what is being described above. Because of these inherent biases and thought processes in the way Quinn’s head perceives how the world works (which could be influenced by his own personal experience, etc), In Player B’s head, he’s thinking how he could ever expect to have the same opportunity as Player A? He already knows from first hand experience that the inconsistent treatment between players for similar actions indicates a compromised determination of opportunity.
We can keep saying a player isn’t ready, like Kakko, like Kravtsov, like, yep, Lias Anderson (and you can’t convince me otherwise that the LA situation didn’t occur due to what I just described above and as a result he felt helpless, like there was nothing he could say/do to convince DQ to give him an opportunity), but you have to give them a fair opportunity in the first place. And by fair opportunity, I mean you need to put them in a position to succeed and do every possible f***ing thing under the sun to make sure of it. That means yes, permanently putting guys like Kakko and Kravtsov on the first and second line for the entire season. One of the best ways to develop a skill is through repetition. Practicing and doing something over and over again until it becomes second nature. And yes, that ESPECIALLY means being able to fail at times while doing this. Failure is one of the greatest teachers. “Okay, that didn’t work, let’s analyze, and take a different approach the next time. Through this comes maturity, and at least, development. The truth is even when a player gets an opportunity, as soon as a mistake is made, he’s reprimanded (see player B above). Now you are conditioning player B to be conscious and second guess every decision he makes with and without the puck. Player B knows that his opportunity could be taken away just as quick as it was given, and with this coach, who knows if the player will ever get that opportunity again.
Like I said, one of the most important parts of development is getting the reps in and being allowed to fail, and learning from those failures. And in our case the kids will get the opportunity to also learn from the likes of Z-bad and Panarin while also creating chemistry with them. I’m not speaking out of my ass (please see Blackhawks, Chicago - who play guys like Kubalik, Dach, etc. with established vets like Kane and Toews - also see how the young guns have been tearing it up and have had a serious impact on that series).
And then add on the fact that we have players who have no future with this organization taking up those top 9/6 spots instead of giving key minutes to the youngins. And please don’t bring Hartford up and say that’s what it’s for. Due to years of neglect, it’s not a realistic option. The fact of the matter is we are in a rebuild, and while the winning was all nice and felt emotionally satisfying like a quick fix, I’d give it up to have Kakko, Kravtsov play close to 20 minutes a night and get in the growing pains now, so they can actually develop and we could have a deep lineup when we are ready to compete.
It’s not anomaly what’s happened to Lias Anderson, not with Kravtsov and going back to Russia, not with Kakko with getting thrown off the top PP unit for the entire year for Ryan Strome. History tends to repeat itself, so don’t be shocked and when this happens again. And all the numb skulls here will say “what a baby, go home and cry, etc) instead of actually trying to intellectually analyze what is going on and notice that the water they drank is tainted and that there is a fundamental issue with this organizations approaches to development.
*sir, this is a McDonalds drive through*
... you get my point.
