Should the Rangers fire David Quinn?

[duhmetreE]

Jeff Gorton and JD will probably add more Center and LD defensive talent... If the team does not improve in that regard and/or atleast make the playoffs and compete, I could see him gone next off-season.

We were embarrassingly unprepared this 'tournament'. Thats on the management/coaching.

 

[True Blue]

Jeff Gorton and JD will probably add more Center and LD defensive talent... If the team does not improve in that regard and/or atleast make the playoffs and compete, I could see him gone next off-season.

We were embarrassingly unprepared this 'tournament'. Thats on the management/coaching.

There is no reason as to why Quinn cannot learn as well. This is still the youngest team in the league and Carolina was the better team. Oh, and having Panarin, ZBad and Kreider be complete no shows did not help the situation. That is not on Quinn that is on the players.

Again, I see no smoke or fire to indicate that there is any displeasure with Quinn.

 

[duhmetreE]

There is no reason as to why Quinn cannot learn as well. This is still the youngest team in the league and Carolina was the better team. Oh, and having Panarin, ZBad and Kreider be complete no shows did not help the situation. That is not on Quinn that is on the players.

Again, I see no smoke or fire to indicate that there is any displeasure with Quinn.

they were out of shape... gasping for air most of the time. Thats on coaching.

There's no smoke but if things dont improve there will be a quick change imo. They were embarrassed out of the tournament. JD and Jeff said they need to be harder to play against. If those pieces are added and there's no improvement, I think he's gone. Especially considering the talent available. Assuming Gallant, Lavi and Montgomery are taken by then

 

[True Blue]

they were out of shape... gasping for air most of the time. Thats on coaching.

There's no smoke but if things dont improve there will be a quick change imo. They were embarrassed out of the tournament. JD and Jeff said they need to be harder to play against. If those pieces are added and there's no improvement, I think he's gone. Especially considering the talent available. Assuming Gallant, Lavi and Montgomery are taken by then

I am not judging anything based on what has happened in the 5 months leading up to this, right down to the hubs.

Keeping in shape has to be on the players, not the coach. He was not there to run practice. We have no idea of who tried to stay in shape and who did not.

Yes, it was an embarrassment and the blame goes all around. The roster, as currently constituted, is still a bubble team. Bubble teams can miss the playoffs just as much as make them. This was still the youngest team in the league. This was still a team that completely overachieved over the course of the year. Making the team harder to play against, has to do with personnel choices. That is up to Gorton & JD, not Quinn.

As there is not as much as one whit to point to a belief that Gorton & JD have soured on Quinn, I will maintain that short of the wheels completely coming off the bus and the younger players regressing, there is absolutely nothing to indicate that Quinn would be fired. There is a world of difference between competing for the playoffs all year and falling short, and competing for the lottery.

 

[duhmetreE]

I am not judging anything based on what has happened in the 5 months leading up to this, right down to the hubs.

Keeping in shape has to be on the players, not the coach. He was not there to run practice. We have no idea of who tried to stay in shape and who did not.

Yes, it was an embarrassment and the blame goes all around. The roster, as currently constituted, is still a bubble team. Bubble teams can miss the playoffs just as much as make them. This was still the youngest team in the league. This was still a team that completely overachieved over the course of the year. Making the team harder to play against, has to do with personnel choices. That is up to Gorton & JD, not Quinn.

As there is not as much as one whit to point to a belief that Gorton & JD have soured on Quinn, I will maintain that short of the wheels completely coming off the bus and the younger players regressing, there is absolutely nothing to indicate that Quinn would be fired. There is a world of difference between competing for the playoffs all year and falling short, and competing for the lottery.

not making the playoffs with this much talent would be a failure. There's no way around it

 

[True Blue]

not making the playoffs with this much talent would be a failure. There's no way around it

There is talent, but the lack of depth is also present. And having to go into a season with the left side of the defense looking like what it looks like right now, is not a recipe for success.

Talent is here, but the team has big holes. So while it would be a failure to you, I see nothing to indicate that Gorton and JD see it the same way.

I think that they COULD make the playoffs, but that is not a guarantee. Now having said that, I will agree that the clock starts to tick.

 

[Inferno]

Every single 1OA forward except for Stamkos (who was close) and Jack Hughes has either broken or paced for 50+ points (Hall had his season cut short due to injury and Yakupov had 31 in 48 during the lockout shortened 2013 season) since the 2005 lock out.

History actually suggests that it's more likely to occur. When more mediocre 1 OA's like RNH and Nico Hischer (who okay, was carried by MVP Hall) are able to eclipse that number, I don't think it's insane to think that Lafrienere to do it as well as long as he stays on the ice and the NHL plays a full season.

He also has the luxury of starting his career on a team that isn't a bottom feeder. Now perhaps this hurts him as he won't get prime top 6 minutes and PP1 time off the bat, but I doubt that he's going to be getting 8 minutes a night. Even in a 3rd line situation, he's going to walk into a better situation than most of the aforementioned players.

I'd imagine most of those guys got heavy power play minutes... Were go to guys, and were playing high in the lineup.

Lafreniere will be the 3rd best lw to start this season.

He'll most definitely not play the power play... Certainly not over zibanejad, panarin, DeAngelo, and kreider... I guess there's the other side... But you'd have to imagine buch, strome, or kakko all get first look there.

He's probably not going to play more than 12 mins a night.

I'd say 50 points is the high end of my expectations. I'm thinking 30 to 40 points would be a great first season considering his place in the lineup.

If a 19 year old 3rd line lw is putting up 50 points.. the rangers are gonna be a playoff team for. Sure.


I don't really see it tho.

They'll be close..but until we get staal and Smith off this team and get a better 2nd line center I don't see this is a legit playoff contender...more of a fringe playoff team.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

There is no reason as to why Quinn cannot learn as well. This is still the youngest team in the league and Carolina was the better team. Oh, and having Panarin, ZBad and Kreider be complete no shows did not help the situation. That is not on Quinn that is on the players.

Again, I see no smoke or fire to indicate that there is any displeasure with Quinn.

The bolded goes too often overlooked. If a young player needs team to develop and adjust to the NHL, why doesn't a coach?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I'd imagine most of those guys got heavy power play minutes... Were go to guys, and were playing high in the lineup.

Lafreniere will be the 3rd best lw to start this season.

He'll most definitely not play the power play... Certainly not over zibanejad, panarin, DeAngelo, and kreider... I guess there's the other side... But you'd have to imagine buch, strome, or kakko all get first look there.

He's probably not going to play more than 12 mins a night.

I'd say 50 points is the high end of my expectations. I'm thinking 30 to 40 points would be a great first season considering his place in the lineup.

If a 19 year old 3rd line lw is putting up 50 points.. the rangers are gonna be a playoff team for. Sure.


I don't really see it tho.

They'll be close..but until we get staal and Smith off this team and get a better 2nd line center I don't see this is a legit playoff contender...more of a fringe playoff team.

There is a second PP unit.

I don't think its a sure thing that he plays LW. RW is a possibility.

If hes only getting 12 minutes a night Quinn should be fired.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Jeff Gorton and JD will probably add more Center and LD defensive talent...

How?

 

[True Blue]

There is a second PP unit.

I don't think its a sure thing that he plays LW. RW is a possibility.

If hes only getting 12 minutes a night Quinn should be fired.

Switching from wing to the other side of the ice is not really that easy to do. Could it be done? Of course. But this is not video games. It is just not that easy. And if he is kept at LW (which is what I believe will happen), where do you think the time is coming from to get him more minutes?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Switching from wing to the other side of the ice is not really that easy to do. Could it be done? Of course. But this is not video games. It is just not that easy. And if he is kept at LW (which is what I believe will happen), where do you think the time is coming from to get him more minutes?

He'd be a LHS moving over to the right side, if anything it would make life a bit easier for him.

He's great at passing off of his back hand and forehand, so no real issues there, plus these guys move around a ton in general, getting married to positions just because players are listed in them is not wise. This is not the same as playing LD as a RHS or vice versa, thats a tougher switch to make if you haven't done it before.

Kreider played a decent amount on the right side, though I'd rather keep him on the left. If they were to run with the same unit of players+Laf next season (they won't, but just for the sake of this conversation lets say they do) I'd line up Kreider and Buchnevich with Chytil - That is a trio that worked well last season before it was broken up and it would spread the depth through out the lineup rather than just loading up your top 6.

The other alternative would be to stack 3 players 21 or younger on the 3rd line. Something tells me that is not a recipe for success.

Even if you're keeping him at LW on the 3rd line, you do realize that the top 9 generally gets pretty evenly distributed minutes right? Coaches may lean on certain guys a bit more depending on the situation, but it's far more likely, no matter where he plays, that his TOI is going to fall in the 14-15 minute range rather than the 11-12 minute range - Thats basically 4th line level.

 

[True Blue]

Even if you're keeping him at LW on the 3rd line, you do realize that the top 9 generally gets pretty evenly distributed minutes right? Coaches may lean on certain guys a bit more depending on the situation, but it's far more likely, no matter where he plays, that his TOI is going to fall in the 14-15 minute range rather than the 11-12 minute range - Thats basically 4th line level.

No, I get it. And chances are that 13-15 minute range is what I would expect.

 

[Larrybiv]

I don't know what Laf will end up doing. Heck I don't even know what the next season is going to look like but I was interested so lets expand a little bit.

I wanted to see how teenagers (18-19 year olds) in general performed playing in the NHL. So went back over the last ten seasons (10-11 thru 19-20) and took the universe of all teen forwards who played at least 20 games for their team in that season. I'm more interested in scoring rate than total points per season for, I think, obvious reasons:

Total number of players = 82
A low of 6 in one season (18-19) and a high of 10 in another (16-17) but mostly was 8 or 9 players each year.

Total number of games played = 5049
Total number of points accumulated = 2429
Points per game = 0.48 (50 pts in 82 games is a 0.61 rate)

That comes out to 39 points in an 82 game season for the average teenage performance.

With the caveat of PP time and playing regular minutes on the top three lines, is it outlandish to see Lafreniere with his pedigree/comps from scouts and NHL execs (Below McDavid, on tier with Hall/Tavares/Matthews) being 0.13 ppg better than the average teen player? I don't think so but I guess we'll see.

....oh and watch them do something dumb and not draft Lafreniere.

....double oh. To keep it related to Quinn. Quinn shouldn't be fired and he'll probably start Lafreniere at 3rd line LW next to Chytil and on the 2nd PP unit. Wouldn't be surprised if he tinkered with Laf at 1st line LW with Kreider shifting over to the RW side of ZBad if he's comfy, as well as 1st PP time.

Thanks for all the hard work coming up with those numbers. Seriously great job! Now as far as your assessments in your last paragraph, I honestly believe that you've hit the nail right on the head. He will start on the third line, second power play unit and somewhere along the line he's going to move up, whether it be via an injury to someone in the top six, or just because he's playing out of his mind and simply better than the next person. OMG! Can these playoffs be over already, so we can start next year? LOL

 

[Larrybiv]

Listen, I truly believe this team has to win a round next year. This guy is the luckiest SOB there is. Kakko, now Lafreniere, Panarin, and Zibanejad are Hart-caliber stars. Strome became a 70-point C over a full 82 games. Gorton has gotten him some pieces. They have high-end prospects. He's supposed to be a developmental coach, so develop these guys and let's take the next step to win a round. If he doesn't win a round and they don't take strides with their defensive play, he may be finished here. Gotta hope FLA sticks with Joel one more year. CBJ marrying Torts long-term? Seriously, he would probably be a guy I bring back. The one thing you learn with that guy is effort. Where the hell was it against Carolina? Because I saw none.

I would take Torts back in a heartbeat. But you get three things with him.
1) effort
2) the defensive scheme with players blocking way too many shots
3) never knowing what he's going to say in his great pressers, (for me that was always hysterical and very entertaining) Seems he calmed down a lot.

 

[Larrybiv]

There is talent, but the lack of depth is also present. And having to go into a season with the left side of the defense looking like what it looks like right now, is not a recipe for success.

Talent is here, but the team has big holes. So while it would be a failure to you, I see nothing to indicate that Gorton and JD see it the same way.

I think that they COULD make the playoffs, but that is not a guarantee. Now having said that, I will agree that the clock starts to tick.

In fact, the clock never stops ticking. Quinn is learning on a curve just right along side the players. I like the gelling of a team including the coach as quite the concept. Nothing would be sweeter when raising that/those cup(s)you just have to give it a little bit of time. Let's face it we are way ahead of schedule and we're going to be enjoying some really good hockey not a team like buffalo or even Edmonton in which it took 10 years to even get to where they are..... when it only quite possibly will have taken us two or three.

 

[NYR]

The bolded goes too often overlooked. If a young player needs team to develop and adjust to the NHL, why doesn't a coach?

Because the coach is the teacher, not the learner.
Look at what the Islanders are doing.
They have a team filled with misfits.
You know what the difference is?

They all buy into a realistic system and execute..

 

[Chytilmania]

they were out of shape... gasping for air most of the time. Thats on coaching.

That's also on the players. Kakko made sure he was skating and ready. Panarin did not and it showed.

 

[Chytilmania]

The bolded goes too often overlooked. If a young player needs team to develop and adjust to the NHL, why doesn't a coach?

Been saying this since we were eliminated!!
Quinn may end up growing from this experience as well. If next season we regress then you have an argument of replacing him. But I like the trajectory of this team especially with a few old contracts coming off the books.

 

[NYR]

Yeah OK.. It's the players..Bullshit ^^^ !

 

[Chytilmania]

Yeah OK.. It's the players..Bullshit ^^^ !

Is Quinn supposed to call every day during a pandemic and ask what they did today? C'mon they're grown men. Guys skip offseason workouts in all leagues, is that the coaches fault?

 

[True Blue]

Apparently now young coaches all need to be Scotty Bowman right at the start of their careers.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

He’s older than Kakko, more adjusted you the N.A. game than Kakko, and is considered a tier above him as a prospect.

i know you’re the forums wet blanket but can you just act like a fan for once instead of “the straight guy”

Be careful, Jeremy roenick might try and sue you and HFNYR.

 

[NYSPORTS]

The average age of this roster might be younger next season. This might takes some time.

Not to compare this roster to the great Edmonton teams but even that great team needed time to develop. I recall them making nice strides after their first playoff exit only to get blindsided by a very average Kings team. It took another year plus before they arrived.

 

[NYR]

Is Quinn supposed to call every day during a pandemic and ask what they did today? C'mon they're grown men. Guys skip offseason workouts in all leagues, is that the coaches fault?

One thing I'll give DQ credit for is his work ethic but it ends there.
There's no knowledge to backup the work ethic.
Every other team in the league started getting ready to play at the same exact time and was prepared to play.

Out of all the teams that competed, the NYR were by far the worst.. Like not even in the same ballpark.

Ultimately..That responsibility falls on the coach for not having his team prepared to play and if that means calling everybody, every day during a pandemic than so be it.