Should Greiss get more starts?
- Thread starter Hrkac Circus
- Start date
I think it's clear to most fans when Binner needs a rest and I have no idea why the coaching staff ignores it. I would personally say f*** it and give Greiss a start every 3-5 games. There is no reason to run Binny so hard when Greiss has proven so far not to be a liability.
TheDizee
Trade Jordan Kyrou ASAP | ALWAYS RIGHT
- Apr 5, 2014
- 20,451
- 13,073
Absolutely. Increase his value as much as possible. If we could get a 3rd round pick for him, that would be amazing.
eibyyz
STL. Like my father before me.
Hrkac Circus
Registered User
Berube pushed Mason back in Philly for all he could give, before his body started to give up.
542365
2018-19 Cup Champs!
- Mar 22, 2012
- 22,540
- 8,993
Everyone knows who Greiss is at this stage in his career. I don't think it's going to affect his trade value one way or another. It doesn't make a difference who starts the games. They provide pretty much the same level of play.
Celtic Note
Living the dream
- Dec 22, 2006
- 17,341
- 6,308
I guess I don’t understand why a team would want him as a rental unless they had a backup go down. Either way I would not expect more than a 4th, but probably more likely a 5th.
ChicagoBlues
Terraformers
- Oct 24, 2006
- 15,756
- 6,617
Greiss is better than some 5th-rounder we haven’t yet selected and will most likely never make the NHL.
Celtic Note
Living the dream
- Dec 22, 2006
- 17,341
- 6,308
I would almost rather keep Greiss. Keep Hofer in the AHL on a team looking at the playoffs. That experience seems better than coming up and being on a NHL team that isn’t good defensively and has nothing to play for this season.
You don’t trade Greiss for value. You trade him because you want Hofer to get his feet wet at the end of the year. Futures for Greiss will be limited value.
exactly. whether we trade greiss will depend almost entirely on whether we want hofer to be up here or in springfield for remainder of season.
ChicagoBlues
Terraformers
- Oct 24, 2006
- 15,756
- 6,617
You make a good point. My thought process was whether bringing up Hofer to be the backup next season is a wise thing to do, given how crappy we are most likely going to be next season.
If the Blues made some changes to the coaching personnel, and maybe to the defense, I could see Hofer flourishing in an environment that had him growing with a young team. If we had coaches that could instill a commitment to team defense, and the Blues were still not contenders but at least respectable defensively, I could see a tandem of Binnington/Hofer doing very well. Throwing him into the shambles that exists right now, however, could be disastrous. There have to be some changes made. I would start with McTavish and Van Ryn.
ChicagoBlues
Terraformers
- Oct 24, 2006
- 15,756
- 6,617
I like all the different perspectives and see the value in each one.
Totally agree that our coaching staff's approach to defense this season has been deeply flawed. Something must change. We are stuck with a few guys, but have a slightly different look now on D w/o Mikkola gummin' up the works.
The poor state of the Blues is the main reason why I want Greiss to at least start the season as our backup and let Hofer/Zherenko keep marinating. I'd want to see some coaching changes implemented first before I promote Hofer to backup Binny.
Sgt Schultz
Registered User
With all the chances we have given up on back doors, guys open in the slot, and general defensive breakdowns, the only guy we could bring up that would have a chance is this guy:
Even with him, uncontested shooters still have the top corners.
Seriously, when is the last time we played a solid 60 minutes of defense? Probably against Ottawa or Minnesota last month? Granted, we have not played a normal schedule lately, but looking back at one or two games out of the last dozen or so just will not cut it.
ChicagoBlues
Terraformers
- Oct 24, 2006
- 15,756
- 6,617
Sgt Schultz
Registered User
BlueOil
"well-informed"
- Apr 28, 2010
- 7,251
- 4,253
i think the blues are already spot starting him and trying to give him favorable matchups, but his stats still aren't good enough to be boosting his trade value imo
Ted Hoffman
Done
- Dec 15, 2002
- 29,289
- 8,728
He's being paid $1.25 million to be the backup, whether he plays 40 games or 0. He's not getting "his games" taken away.
As far as trade value: he's 37, with a career 7-8 playoff record that's almost all from 2 different postseasons, the last being 3 years ago when he came in during the 2nd round to help spell Varlamov and didn't play after Game 1 of the semis when Tampa shelled both him and Varlamov for 8 goals. No contender is trading for him to be a backup with the idea that if something goes wrong, he can step in and be their backstop as part of a Cup run, and no one else is trading for him to get through the regular season, including Ottawa.
Brian39
Registered User
- Apr 24, 2014
- 7,580
- 14,247
The concern was about Binner feeling like his games were being taken away and given to Greiss.
Personally, I don't care about Binner's feelings on the subject and the organization shouldn't either. He's not consistent and/or mentally sharp enough to be a 60+ game NHL starter. That is true of almost every goalie in the world, so it isn't an indictment of him personally. The team needs him to be better in a higher percentage of his starts than he's been while trying to handle a 60+ start workload. If he can't handle that then he needs a new line of work because an NHL starting goalie in 2023 needs to be able to concede 25-30 starts to the backup unless he is having a Vezina-caliber season.
Binnington is 2nd in the league in total starts even though there are 20 teams who have played more games than the Blues have. Of the 6 goalies who have started 39+ games, he is the only one with a SV% below .913. he has an .890. It is asinine how little we use Greiss.
October and November was the best time to give Greiss more starts. December and January would have also been good. I'm not really sure what the point of changing things up now would be.
Ted Hoffman
Done
- Dec 15, 2002
- 29,289
- 8,728
Ah, I can see that. I was parsing that in a different way.
Agreed. Binnington isn't a 60+ game workhorse. Or at least not that season after season. He's also not the guy you want standing on his head night after night having to keep the team in the game while it gets its act together, which is where the team is at right now. But I'm not sure anyone figured Greiss to be playing 30-35 games this season, and I suspect if someone had suggested Greiss should start 30-35 games this season, most others would have considered it a bad idea / said "if that happens, we're not having a great season."
Brian39
Registered User
- Apr 24, 2014
- 7,580
- 14,247
That is an expectation issue that doesn't properly consider the role of a backup goalie in today's NHL.
Only 12 goalies started more than 52 games last season. Every other starter yielded 30+ games to other goalies. The Vezina winner was in the group who yielded his net 30+ times. So were the guys who finished 4th and 6th in Vezina voting.
Only 5 guys yielded their net fewer than 25 times.
Binnington lost his starting job last year and has never started more than 50 games in his career (shortened seasons are the main reason, but he's never proven himself able to handle a workhorse workload over 82 games). It shouldn't have been at all outside the realm of expectations that a successful season for Binner and the team was to relay on him for less than 53 starts. That would still have him squarely as a #1 goalie.
Ted Hoffman
Done
- Dec 15, 2002
- 29,289
- 8,728
Absolute nitpick: while you're absolutely correct - he's never started more than 50 games [in a season] in his career,
In 2019-20, he started 50 exactly would would have pro-rated to 57
In 2020-21, he started 41 which would have pro-rated to 60
This season, he's started 40 and is on pace to start 63
