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Sheldons' new look lines, will they work?

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notbias said:
Kadri/Marleau I believe
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NHL Lines Advanced Stats

I don't know analytics but looking at the data from this website, it looks like Marners underlying stats with kadri and Marleau were the worst among all offensive lines. The bozak, jvr, Marner line was good but seems about on par with the bozak, jvr, brown line or maybe worse. So I'm not sure about him "elevating" that line. If someone wants to copy and paste the line stats from this page, it would be interesting to see someone with a better understanding of the numbers. Maybe this site isn't good? But from looking at it, the stats for Marners line with him off vs him on didn't change much with JVR and Bozak and when his line with Marleau and Kadri seemed to have the worst stats. (But this is a bit of a new language for me)

NHL Lines Advanced Stats
 
Twine Tickler said:
I don't think they will be upset, I was responding to a post that suggested they may be upset by this shuffling of the lines.

I think this group will welcome the new look
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Got it, didn't see that. Probably best, seems like a pretty dumb thought by whoever had it.
 
Jojalu said:
Mik has been awful playing top 6. He is a straightline skater with almost zero hockey sense. He rarely contributes to any cycle and can't make a pass.

Much better with Kamph and Engvall where he can either come in with Engvall or be first out of zone and vet in alone
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All Mik wanted was an extended look in a top 6 role .. with new configuration he will get his wish ... if he can help line produce then we all benefit .. if not then hopefully we can get an asset in a trade for him at TDL .. he wants his $$$ .. we aren't gonna keep him next year anywho for CAP reasons .. he will get more from another team then we can afford
 
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This is what I don’t get.
We see the lines and assume AM is the first line, JT is the 2nd line and Willie is the 3rd line. To me, I think any of these three lines can be the first line on any given night due to being quite balance.
 
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In a word, "yes."

Deep centres, they're all above 53% on draws, Tavares is north of 60 so they will start with the puck more often that not.

My first reaction was that 3rd line was no longer a shutdown line, but Willy is underated on the forecheck and takeaways, Kerfoot is quick and forechecks well on the PK so I see that line being really good defensively actually. I think I worry that Kampf is a bit of a back hole offensively. We will know pretty quickly if the other two on that Line will make up for it. although Engvall and Mikheyev have been pretty hot.

Mikheyev with Tavares and Marner should be a really good line as well. Nice to see Mikheyev rewarded with elite line linemates.

Matthews line will be pretty frantic I think. Chaos around the net. Kami-Kase and Bunting are going to make room for Matthews

4th line will be an upgrade with Engvall on there rather than Clifford or Anderson.
 
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I'm going rogue on this one.

I don't think people comprehend Matthews on ice impact when you combine his underlying offensive + defensive metrics. Time sharing him 5v5 is laughable. Should be a law if you own Matthews you give no-doubt top 5v5 minutes.

And if Matthews is getting the 5v5 minutes that match his on ice impact, Nylander for sure gets wasted on the 3rd line because JT/Marner should not be getting the same 5v5 usage as Kerfoot/Kampf. Fire Keefe on the spot if that occurs long term.

Add to that we finally have Nylander at a point per game pace, Kampf/Kase duo is one of the best third lines in the league, pretty sure in or close to top 20 for xGF% as well, Matthews-Marner best xgf% in the league (I think, or near) and these new lines are just straight up dumb.

The only logic people have for them is "ouuuuu excited to see what happens". We need to build chemistry with the optimal lines from today. We shouldn't be experimenting like we're some scrub team in free fall.

I have no beef with anyone who likes the lines I will just personally be hoping these lines don't make it into the Ducks game.
 
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zeke said:
boobies-calculator.gif
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Now thems some stats I can really get my head into.
 
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Remember when they came up together we are wish they will lead their own lines. It is finally happening and I for one can’t wait to see how it goes for a few games.
 
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I think the Kase/Kampf/Mik line was developing into a solid 2 way third line, so I wouldn't have touched that.
I would have put Marner with tavares and Nylander/Matthews.
Tavares,to me, still has that devastating wrister and not that much else.
But with marner he becomes a threat again...in my opinion, anyway.
 
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I quite liked the Mik-Kampf-Engvall line and while I agree Kase coming back in makes the leafs juggle thing, I don’t know why they’re changing something that’s been working
 
Havoc said:
Matthews-Marner best xgf% in the league
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Marner looks amazing right now. That xGF was built with him looking bad.

Keefe refuses to split them up when Marner is slumping then splits them up when Marner returns finally ready to cash in that xGF :laugh:
 
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Tuttle said:
How long have they been good compared to sub par and how many goalless games does someone go w/o being moved off. You're saying 16s salary plays no.part?
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They're the best PP in the league tho.
 
Unpopular opinion: Engvall is better than Mikheyev. Mikheyev might be on that cute little streak of his but overall Engvall has been the far more consistent and impactful player
 
Antropovsky said:
NHL Lines Advanced Stats

I don't know analytics but looking at the data from this website, it looks like Marners underlying stats with kadri and Marleau were the worst among all offensive lines. The bozak, jvr, Marner line was good but seems about on par with the bozak, jvr, brown line or maybe worse. So I'm not sure about him "elevating" that line. If someone wants to copy and paste the line stats from this page, it would be interesting to see someone with a better understanding of the numbers. Maybe this site isn't good? But from looking at it, the stats for Marners line with him off vs him on didn't change much with JVR and Bozak and when his line with Marleau and Kadri seemed to have the worst stats. (But this is a bit of a new language for me)

NHL Lines Advanced Stats
Click to expand...

What are we arguing about here? 5v5 line production?

Here's how Mitch has produced each year 5v5

16-17: 2.83p/60, 2.00p1/60 (1.JVR 2.Bozak)
17-18: 3.08p/60, 2.09p1/60 (1.Marleau 2.Bozak 3.Kadri 4.JVR)
18-19: 3.47p/60, 2.88p1/60 (1.Tavares 2.Hyman)
19-20: 3.16p/60, 2.26p1/60 (1.Matthews 2.Hyman 3.Tavares)
20-21: 3.26p/60, 2.63p1/60 (1.Matthews 2.Hyman 3.Thornton)
21-22: 2.57p/60, 1.78p1/60 (1.Matthews 2.Tavares 3.Bunting 4.Ritchie)
 
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Shooter2x said:
Marner looks amazing right now. That xGF was built with him looking bad.

Keefe refuses to split them up when Marner is slumping then splits them up when Marner returns finally ready to cash in that xGF :laugh:
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xGF rarely loses as a predictor when the sample size increases. Massive raking of points incoming for those 2. Rocket should be another easy win for Matthews given their first half xGF. Just leave it alone. Just need to hope they can carry it into the playoffs this time but that's a story for another day.
 
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Don't like Nylander with Kampf at all. If you want to roll 3 more even lines i think you stick Nylander with Kerfoot as his center. They always play well together and Kampf can't be a 3C with skilled guys. He will kill their offense
 
Havoc said:
I'm going rogue on this one.

I don't think people comprehend Matthews on ice impact when you combine his underlying offensive + defensive metrics. Time sharing him 5v5 is laughable. Should be a law if you own Matthews you give no-doubt top 5v5 minutes.

And if Matthews is getting the 5v5 minutes that match his on ice impact, Nylander for sure gets wasted on the 3rd line because JT/Marner should not be getting the same 5v5 usage as Kerfoot/Kampf. Fire Keefe on the spot if that occurs long term.

Add to that we finally have Nylander at a point per game pace, Kampf/Kase duo is one of the best third lines in the league, pretty sure in or close to top 20 for xGF% as well, Matthews-Marner best xgf% in the league (I think, or near) and these new lines are just straight up dumb.

The only logic people have for them is "ouuuuu excited to see what happens". We need to build chemistry with the optimal lines from today. We shouldn't be experimenting like we're some scrub team in free fall.

I have no beef with anyone who likes the lines I will just personally be hoping these lines don't make it into the Ducks game.
Click to expand...

/thread
 
Would have liked to have seen
Bunting Matthew's Nylander
Kase Tavares Marner
Kerfoot Kampf Mikheyev
Engvall Spezza Simmonds
 
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