Sheldons' new look lines, will they work?
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hobarth
Registered User
- Jul 10, 2011
- 1,196
- 307
Bunting-Matthews-Kase
Mikheyev-Tavares-Marner
Kerfoot-Kampf-Nylander
Engvall-Spezza-Simmonds
Extra: Ritchie, Clifford
These were the lines from practice yesterday, Keefe said these were something that they wanted to try since the beginning of the year but injuries have got in the way.
I like to see Mitch and Austin separated, I really feel that AM is hot when he's hot and not when he's not, he's not dependent on his linemates to score, I think JT is consistently better with better linemates. I don't think AM is a reliable puck mover from DZ to OZ so I wouldn't mind seeing Engvall on that line just for possession sake and I believe Engvall could be as productive offensively as Bunting.
With JT and MM able to have decent possession I think Kerfoot should remain on the 2nd, he's having a career year but only because he's not being relied on as a center.
The 3rd line of Bunting/Nylander/Mikeyev would be very reliant on Nylander to move the puck but if Keefe can give them the proper role, against opposition's 3rd lines, this line might have decent potential both offensively and defensively as all 3 are dog on a bone determined.
Kampf is a 4th line center in every way who's limitations were masked by playing with Kase, Engvall, Mikeyev, his possession abilities might be more valuable against other's 4th lines. We are seeing the Spezza that Dallas didn't want at any money and Simmonds when motivated is a very good 4th liner but he provides little value anywhere else. Lately TO's 4th line has been horrendous except in rare games but then Ritchie, Clifford, Anderson, Seney plus others haven't provided a lot of value so Spezza it is I guess.
I hate the nights when it looks like TO has nothing in the tank and the commentators spend the evening making excuses like tiredness, altitude, injuries, +, TO has a great record and being satisfied with this team, this core, going into February hasn't worked and hasn't gotten them over the hump of even a single playoff round win, TO needs this experimentation.
Mikheyev-Tavares-Marner
Kerfoot-Kampf-Nylander
Engvall-Spezza-Simmonds
Extra: Ritchie, Clifford
These were the lines from practice yesterday, Keefe said these were something that they wanted to try since the beginning of the year but injuries have got in the way.
I like to see Mitch and Austin separated, I really feel that AM is hot when he's hot and not when he's not, he's not dependent on his linemates to score, I think JT is consistently better with better linemates. I don't think AM is a reliable puck mover from DZ to OZ so I wouldn't mind seeing Engvall on that line just for possession sake and I believe Engvall could be as productive offensively as Bunting.
With JT and MM able to have decent possession I think Kerfoot should remain on the 2nd, he's having a career year but only because he's not being relied on as a center.
The 3rd line of Bunting/Nylander/Mikeyev would be very reliant on Nylander to move the puck but if Keefe can give them the proper role, against opposition's 3rd lines, this line might have decent potential both offensively and defensively as all 3 are dog on a bone determined.
Kampf is a 4th line center in every way who's limitations were masked by playing with Kase, Engvall, Mikeyev, his possession abilities might be more valuable against other's 4th lines. We are seeing the Spezza that Dallas didn't want at any money and Simmonds when motivated is a very good 4th liner but he provides little value anywhere else. Lately TO's 4th line has been horrendous except in rare games but then Ritchie, Clifford, Anderson, Seney plus others haven't provided a lot of value so Spezza it is I guess.
I hate the nights when it looks like TO has nothing in the tank and the commentators spend the evening making excuses like tiredness, altitude, injuries, +, TO has a great record and being satisfied with this team, this core, going into February hasn't worked and hasn't gotten them over the hump of even a single playoff round win, TO needs this experimentation.
Why? Keefe shuffles lines based on the situation.
Nylander has already said Keefe told him he won't get less ice time.
Lots of the extra ice time comes from special teams.
at 5v5 Nylander, Marner, Tavares get ~15 mins and Matthews gets ~17.
Won't be hard to find 3-4 extra shifts for Nylander at 5v5 to bump up his ice time from Kampf's normal to his normal.
What ice time are you worried about?
budzz
History is just that.
- Jan 26, 2015
- 1,159
- 1,570
I have no problem with Simmonds on the fourth line... when he's got his feet moving he has decent speed and some crunchy hits help. He is not a liability.
Kampf as a 4th liner is fine and dandy but he really is a very good defensive center, and I don't think we'd be taking advantage of that with limited time on the 4th line. The 3rd line is traditionally up against the other teams top few lines so we need his d there. Between Nylander and Kerfoot I think they can drive some possession and offence, while Kampf takes care of the D-side. May change traditional roles over the other lines... ie 2 wingers deeper, but that should be do-able.
I hope they let these lines run for a few games at least. As many have said, when playoffs come and goals are harder to get, having 3 lines could be huge. Let them get some chemistry, maybe tweak here and there for some o-zone faceoffs.
Kampf as a 4th liner is fine and dandy but he really is a very good defensive center, and I don't think we'd be taking advantage of that with limited time on the 4th line. The 3rd line is traditionally up against the other teams top few lines so we need his d there. Between Nylander and Kerfoot I think they can drive some possession and offence, while Kampf takes care of the D-side. May change traditional roles over the other lines... ie 2 wingers deeper, but that should be do-able.
I hope they let these lines run for a few games at least. As many have said, when playoffs come and goals are harder to get, having 3 lines could be huge. Let them get some chemistry, maybe tweak here and there for some o-zone faceoffs.
keonsbitterness
Registered User
as long as ritchie and clifford arnt in the lineup , go crazy and shuffle it .... who cares.
Nylander playing against 3rd pairing Dmen could be a fun thing to watch. With Kamph offering some support in the D zone, with Kerfoot and Nylander on the wings, the team's 3rd line no longer needs to start every shift in our end of the rink, but shouldn't be a disaster if it does. I like the idea of balancing the top 3 lines. This may not be the final iteration, but it's a start towards something I'd like to see. Engvall with Spezza give JS someone to work with speed and exit zone wise.
Buds17
Registered User
- Nov 29, 2015
- 8,590
- 3,623
I previously mentioned my "gripe" with it (namely, Nylander on the third line) and am essentially done with that now. Being on the third line does not necessarily mean finishing 7th in ice time for forwards as there are special teams and game situations to consider. I'm not sure these changes as a whole will last all that long and it really doesn't matter much either way. Win/fare well and all will be right in the land of blue and white.
ShaneFalco
Registered User
Don't care - happy they are trying it. It should work - just hope it's not something they try for a period
Sweet Leaf
Registered User
Without getting into the specific moves, I believe it's necessary for coaches to try different lineups throughout the season for a variety of reasons.
I can only hope Keefe's newfound willingness to juggle lines extends to the playoffs. Watching him send out the same lines in a 7 game series while being totally stifled was one of the most frustrating things about the last 2 years. Pretty much the only thing he did was in game put Marner/Tavares/Matty on the same line when they really needed some push.
Dangles McGavin
RIP Lounge
I like it. Matthews doesn't need Marner or Nylander. Marner and Nylander play the same position.
I don't care about how much TOI a player gets, I care about winning. I'm excited to see it tried.
I don't care about how much TOI a player gets, I care about winning. I'm excited to see it tried.
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
- 83,109
- 62,026
I don’t mind spreading it thin at all. Different matchups should generate different line combinations and if Matthews and Nylander can anchor their own lines with support cast we are all the stronger for it. I did see that they’re still reluctant to let Marner franchise his own line though. I still find that to be a little disappointing.
Punch Drunk Loov
Thought Viktor Loov was going to be a guy
- Dec 6, 2011
- 5,647
- 4,065
Contenders have a strong 3rd line, definitely worth trying. Matthews is a top 4 player in the world, he should be able to carry two depth players
ACC1224
Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
- Aug 19, 2002
- 78,334
- 45,565
Honestly, this line combination has me very intrigued.
I have seen people post these balanced line combo's before in the past and I never really cared for them TBH. Not sure what has changed. Maybe the fact that it has become a reality now I am actually giving it the thought it always probably deserved
To me, it just makes so much sense to at the very least trial these lines for a handful of games. We need to go into playoffs with every combination explored IMO. I feel like our top guys have been neutralized in years past when it comes to the playoffs. Teams line match our big boys and they end up playing to a neutral game script for 7 games. If anything a marginally positive game script. Certainly not what you need from that level of players. This type of combination may hinder Auston's offence a touch, but ultimately that means nothing to me if it produces more W's. Especially when it matters the most.
Willy has been elite this year. I really truly hope they have made it abundantly clear to him specifically that this is not a demotion. Not that I really think Willy gives a shit or not, but his play this year needs to be celebrated in every way. His attention to detail on both sides of the ice has been exceptional. I really don't see this as a demotion at all, it's an assignment. Sort of like Kadri, but instead of it being a defensive role it will be more of an offensive exploitation role.
Say what you will about Keefe, he is constantly shuffling the deck in and out of the game itself. There should be no stone left unturned going into playoffs and he appears to be doing that right now.
cannot wait to see this in action tomorrow TBH.
I have seen people post these balanced line combo's before in the past and I never really cared for them TBH. Not sure what has changed. Maybe the fact that it has become a reality now I am actually giving it the thought it always probably deserved
To me, it just makes so much sense to at the very least trial these lines for a handful of games. We need to go into playoffs with every combination explored IMO. I feel like our top guys have been neutralized in years past when it comes to the playoffs. Teams line match our big boys and they end up playing to a neutral game script for 7 games. If anything a marginally positive game script. Certainly not what you need from that level of players. This type of combination may hinder Auston's offence a touch, but ultimately that means nothing to me if it produces more W's. Especially when it matters the most.
Willy has been elite this year. I really truly hope they have made it abundantly clear to him specifically that this is not a demotion. Not that I really think Willy gives a shit or not, but his play this year needs to be celebrated in every way. His attention to detail on both sides of the ice has been exceptional. I really don't see this as a demotion at all, it's an assignment. Sort of like Kadri, but instead of it being a defensive role it will be more of an offensive exploitation role.
Say what you will about Keefe, he is constantly shuffling the deck in and out of the game itself. There should be no stone left unturned going into playoffs and he appears to be doing that right now.
cannot wait to see this in action tomorrow TBH.
notDatsyuk
Registered User
- Jul 20, 2018
- 11,999
- 10,169
Looks like an attempt to get Tavares going again, putting him with the two hottest wingers. Certainly Matthews can carry his line without much help, but it gives us two lines with lots of speed on the wings and not much in the middle.
That third line might actually be the best.
That third line might actually be the best.
Personally I don't care about TOI .. it is meaningless to me .. what excites me is Willy getting a goal and an assist every game against weaker competition and TEAM winning in playoffs .. there is nothing any team including Tampa can do about it .. Point/McD will go against JT/Mitch .. Cirelli/Hedman will take away Matty and then Willy can't be stopped .. well Willy/Kerfoot against Ross/Sergey will be in our favour every single shift .. da ice will be tilted .. it gives us a fighting chance to win
I think that had to do with Marner doesn’t have a shot and need a shooter to be effective.
There are really only 4 good shooters on the team, AM, Willie, JT and Spezza. Marner needs to play with one of them.
Clark4Ever
What we do in hockey echoes in eternity...
I think it has a chance to succeed. The only uncertainty is whether or not Kampf will be able to mesh with Kerfoot and Nylander. The other potential drawback is that it negates having a shutdown line.
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Mess
Global Moderator
For me the biggest surprise is not spreading out the 3 X $11 mil contracts on different lines as opposed to spreading the 3 Amigo's instead.
Spread the cap vs spread the youth.
Why is it that JT needs offensive support?
or
Why not Marner with Kerfoot and Kampf instead of Willy, as Mitch and Kampf are also paired on the PK at times as well?
Does Keefe believe neither Marner nor Tavares can carry their own lines without support from each other to be effective?
Spread the cap vs spread the youth.
Why is it that JT needs offensive support?
or
Why not Marner with Kerfoot and Kampf instead of Willy, as Mitch and Kampf are also paired on the PK at times as well?
Does Keefe believe neither Marner nor Tavares can carry their own lines without support from each other to be effective?
Mitch and JT are not fast enough with foot speed to carry even themselves .. they both a slower straight line skaters but with complimentary skill sets so it works as we all saw 2 seasons ago .. 2 slower guys can move up and down ice together which helps .. Mik can get in on forecheck and help them too
I am happy you are not a coach, all you care about is money.
Subban would be your 1D.
Style of play is also important when constructing lines.
I bet Keefe believes all 4 of Matthews, Tavares, Nylander, Marner can carry their own line, but he chose the ones that use their teammates the least to carry their own line, it is truly shocking that he wants the player with the best vision to be with an elite finisher.
