Sheldon Keefe Discussion Thread

[PromisedLand]

the #1 issue with this team is shanahan, then dubas. soft weak wimpy players take after their management team. no structure, no toughness mental ofr pysical. Always apoligizing.

the rot runs deep here- wth does Shanahan get all these years of failure in the playoffs?

I still cannot understand how someone like Shanahan, especially the way he himself played the game, can be so fragile. It reeks of softness. The killer instinct comment after the habs series also just seemed wierd to me. last season how shanahan was right there nodding/bobbing his head as dubas kept saying "we are almost there" after getting embarrassed by tampa is also something not easy to swallow.

 

[egd27]

if I was Keefe I'd say -> F it!

I'd do what is best for the team and not for the job.

So you'd quit ?

 

[PromisedLand]

So you'd quit ?

I'd start benching players if they are not putting in the effort.

But before I do that I'd try different combinations. Keefe is dying on the Matthews-Marner hill doesn't break them even when they are not going.

Heck create match up problems for opposition by having Matthews/Marner/Nylander on three different lines when normal lines are not producing and are kept quiet by opposition

 

[egd27]

I'd start benching players if they are not putting in the effort.

But before I do that I'd try different combinations. Keefe is dying on the Matthews-Marner hill doesn't break them even when they are not going.

Heck create match up problems for opposition by having Matthews/Marner/Nylander on three different lines when normal lines are not producing and are kept quiet by opposition

Yes, it's seems so obvious that it's at least worth a try.

Give teams 3 or 4 different looks so they can't prepare for the status quo every night.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

I'd start benching players if they are not putting in the effort.

But before I do that I'd try different combinations. Keefe is dying on the Matthews-Marner hill doesn't break them even when they are not going.

Heck create match up problems for opposition by having Matthews/Marner/Nylander on three different lines when normal lines are not producing and are kept quiet by opposition

I would honestly like us to try the opposite.

Load up 1 line:

Nylander - AM - Marner
Robertson - Tavares - Jarnkrok
Engvall - Kerfoot - Bunting
ZAR - Kampf - NAK

 

[PromisedLand]

I would honestly like us to try the opposite.

Load up 1 line:

Nylander - AM - Marner
Robertson - Tavares - Jarnkrok
Engvall - Kerfoot - Bunting
ZAR - Kampf - NAK

Loading up a line works if and only if you have players that can crash and bang the boards

Ex: Marchand-Bergeron-Pastrnak

all three are not afraid to get down and dirty. So skill plays work because there is a "will" to play

If that one line gets stopped then thats it; secondary scoring options are not there. Also we make it easier for opposition to defend because they can just game plan against one line and then have an easy night

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Loading up a line works if and only if you have players that can crash and bang the boards

Ex: Marchand-Bergeron-Pastrnak

all three are not afraid to get down and dirty. So skill plays work because there is a "will" to play

If that one line gets stopped then thats it; secondary scoring options are not there. Also we make it easier for opposition to defend because they can just game plan against one line and then have an easy night

Heatley - Spezza - Alfie was pretty good without a crash and bang type.

I don't think that it's as easy as plugging in a banger. I'd like to see if a line like that could play keep away and really tilt the ice.

As for secondary scoring...well I don't know what use Tavares, Robertson, Jankrok, Kerfoot and Bunting have if they aren't considered secondary scoring options.

 

[ToneDog]

I would honestly like us to try the opposite.

Load up 1 line:

Nylander - AM - Marner
Robertson - Tavares - Jarnkrok
Engvall - Kerfoot - Bunting
ZAR - Kampf - NAK

34 is capable of carrying lesser players. 88, 34, 16 would dominate around the perimeter but they can't play enough minutes to compensate for the other 3 lines. Not putting all my eggs in one basket full time.

 

[PromisedLand]

Heatley - Spezza - Alfie was pretty good without a crash and bang type.

I don't think that it's as easy as plugging in a banger. I'd like to see if a line like that could play keep away and really tilt the ice.

As for secondary scoring...well I don't know what use Tavares, Robertson, Jankrok, Kerfoot and Bunting have if they aren't considered secondary scoring options.

The issue is that the skilled players are mostly kept to the outside; opposition has no issues with them having the puck as long as they are playing perimeter hockey.

Advanced Stats would show high possession, high corsi, xGFand what not... but the fact is skilled players were kept to the outside so its not that great IMO

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

The issue is that the skilled players are mostly kept to the outside; opposition has no issues with them having the puck as long as they are playing perimeter hockey.

Advanced Stats would show high possession, high corsi, xGFand what not... but the fact is skilled players were kept to the outside so its not that great IMO

I don't agree with that assessment, I don't think AM or Willy have any issues going to the net, but I doubt we will come to an agreement.

 

[PromisedLand]

I don't agree with that assessment, I don't think AM or Willy have any issues going to the net, but I doubt we will come to an agreement.

Matthews doesn't have issues going to the net. Nylander is a 50-50 sometimes he goes sometimes he just gives up on plays so not sure. Marner is not the kind of player that will do that.

If I was the opposition coach, stopping one line is easy to plan against instead of stopping 2 or 3 lines. At least in my opinion

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Matthews doesn't have issues going to the net. Nylander is a 50-50 sometimes he goes sometimes he just gives up on plays so not sure. Marner is not the kind of player that will do that.

If I was the opposition coach, stopping one line is easy to plan against instead of stopping 2 or 3 lines. At least in my opinion

Marner scores more goals from the net front than league average. I don't think this line would aim to put a guy in front of the goalie and score a garbage goal, they would go out an try to score in transition or with East West passing.

 

[The Masters]

lol this guy digging bigger hole wtf is he saying

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I still cannot understand how someone like Shanahan, especially the way he himself played the game, can be so fragile. It reeks of softness. The killer instinct comment after the habs series also just seemed wierd to me. last season how shanahan was right there nodding/bobbing his head as dubas kept saying "we are almost there" after getting embarrassed by tampa is also something not easy to swallow.

Shanny one of those guys who likes to go against da grain .. since he was a kid you never knew with Shanny what he was thinking or going to do .. he was always a real real quiet guy like his dad rip

 

[Larcos_Unal]

I honestly cannot fathom that Sheldon Keefe has to backtrack his critique of the top players when the statement was nothing but 100% facts. I have lost a little bit of respect for him and for the players. If you're gonna be this soft internally, how are you expected to not be soft when it matters most?

 

[Marmoset]

If the team is this fragile after only four games with a 2-2 start (a disappointing start but hardly disastrous), how are things going to go when there is an inevitable slump at some point during the season? Or if a real injury bug hits affecting some of the top guys?

I don't think anyone is handling this well, coaches or players. Everyone is extremely defensive. They seem to be really feeling the pressure right now. The smart thing for all of them is probably to keep their public comments to standard cliches and keep the other things in house.

Interestingly this doesn't seem to be just a Toronto thing. There are a quite a few teams with some drama in the media already.

 

[notbias]

lol this guy digging bigger hole wtf is he saying

Well, I am sure the conversation with the players is very different than what he says to the media.

I honestly cannot fathom that Sheldon Keefe has to backtrack his critique of the top players when the statement was nothing but 100% facts. I have lost a little bit of respect for him and for the players. If you're gonna be this soft internally, how are you expected to not be soft when it matters most?

The top players are not playing bad, they are not converting, there is a difference.

If the team is this fragile after only four games with a 2-2 start (a disappointing start but hardly disastrous), how are things going to go when there is an inevitable slump at some point during the season? Or if a real injury bug hits affecting some of the top guys?

I don't think anyone is handling this well, coaches or players. Everyone is extremely defensive. They seem to be really feeling the pressure right now. The smart thing for all of them is probably to keep their public comments to standard cliches and keep the other things in house.

Interestingly this doesn't seem to be just a Toronto thing. There are a quite a few teams with some drama in the media already.

They should just not say anything to the media and focus on it internally.

Matthews doesn't have issues going to the net. Nylander is a 50-50 sometimes he goes sometimes he just gives up on plays so not sure. Marner is not the kind of player that will do that.

If I was the opposition coach, stopping one line is easy to plan against instead of stopping 2 or 3 lines. At least in my opinion

Not sure any of this is factual.

 

[rocketman588]

I would honestly like us to try the opposite.

Load up 1 line:

Nylander - AM - Marner
Robertson - Tavares - Jarnkrok
Engvall - Kerfoot - Bunting
ZAR - Kampf - NAK

The issue is that when we do this the other lines have in the past had difficulty scoring

 

[ACC1224]

I would honestly like us to try the opposite.

Load up 1 line:

Nylander - AM - Marner
Robertson - Tavares - Jarnkrok
Engvall - Kerfoot - Bunting
ZAR - Kampf - NAK

Possibly just my impression but I've never found them to be that successful when thrown together.

 

[notbias]

Possibly just my impression but I've never found them to be that successful when thrown together.

Pretty sure they have some insane play driving stats, unless I am mistaken

 

[darrylsittler27]

I don't see firing Keefe solely as the solution. Who is Dubas gonna bring in next? A bigger, softer teddy bear ? What is becoming obvious is the problem is systemic. This feels like the Titanic, full speed ahead! I have a plan, I just dont know what is quite yet but trust me, I never played hockey.

 

[ToneDog]

I don't see firing Keefe solely as the solution. Who is Dubas gonna bring in next? A bigger, softer teddy bear ? What is becoming obvious is the problem is systemic. This feels like the Titanic, full speed ahead! I have a plan, I just dont know what is quite yet but trust me, I never played hockey.

If it was me, Dubas and Keefe have another 20-25 games to get the ship righted. If not, I fire both, hire Trotz and let Shanny take on the GM role until a new GM is hired. Better to fire them too soon than too late IMO.

 

[therealkoho]

Bunts - Matty - Jarnkrok
Robbie - JT - Mitch
Kerfoot - Will - Engvall
ZAR - Kampf - NAK

 

[Habz4Evr]

And the time to do it is in the offseason. Keefe is a good regular season coach.

Remind me again of when Babcock was fired.

 

[francis246]

If it was me, Dubas and Keefe have another 20-25 games to get the ship righted. If not, I fire both, hire Trotz and let Shanny take on the GM role until a new GM is hired. Better to fire them too soon than too late IMO.

I don't see Dubas getting fired tbh, Dubas' saving grace is he has a relationship with Matthews camp. That is about as valuable as it gets. The last thing they want is a new GM coming in to try and negotiate that contract. So I think Dubas will ultimately get a 2 year extension. 1 year to get Matthews signed, 1 year to do something with team with all the cap space they have coming and thats essentially it.