Sheldon Keefe Discussion Thread

[Notsince67]

I knew the leafs were in trouble the moment they got charged with too many men on the ice early in the game. If a coach can't run a bench, he should go. There is no f'ing excuse that the leafs keep getting these calls. Shows a lack of attention and discipline.

Looking at the vhk game...it's not that the leafs were outmuscled or outworked. The players looked like they didn't know what to do with their positioning. The team was a shit show of poorly executed game planning.

 

[Antropovsky]

no body wants to hear you, you start the same bullshit 10 games into every season.

Aren't you the poster who just said Marner is more of a leader than Matthews? Haha

With a take like that, of course you'd be angry over any negative comments about Marner.

 

[Stephen]

I knew the leafs were in trouble the moment they got charged with too many men on the ice early in the game. If a coach can't run a bench, he should go. There is no f'ing excuse that the leafs keep getting these calls. Shows a lack of attention and discipline.

Looking at the vhk game...it's not that the leafs were outmuscled or outworked. The players looked like they didn't know what to do with their positioning. The team was a shit show of poorly executed game planning.

Agreed. And it was Engvall not being sharp despite coming back into the lineup. No focus from a guy who needed a timeout.

Also got beat on the far side coverage of the net on the non PP goal and the eventual PP goal on LD. They weren’t in the game at all from start to finish.

 

[francis246]

Aren't you the poster who just said Marner is more of a leader than Matthews? Haha

With a take like that, of course you'd be angry over any negative comments about Marner.

He is, did Matthews have issues with the police and hide it? Is that captain material? Honestly Matthews is amazing at what he does, scoring goals and everything but he doesn’t scream leader to me at all. I never see him working the refs, I never see him answering hard questions from the media, he’s pretty quiet on the bench except for the time he argued with Holl. I guess he does lead by example on the ice which is good.

when Marner is bad he deserves to be called out. I have no issues with that, what I have an issue with is this false narrative that he’s immature or baby or isn’t a good leader. Whenever there is a team issue the people you hear Keefe saying he addresses is usually Rielly and Marner, which to me suggests he is a big part of the room and the guys trust him to speak for them.

 

[theTTC]

I knew the leafs were in trouble the moment they got charged with too many men on the ice early in the game. If a coach can't run a bench, he should go. There is no f'ing excuse that the leafs keep getting these calls. Shows a lack of attention and discipline.

Looking at the vhk game...it's not that the leafs were outmuscled or outworked. The players looked like they didn't know what to do with their positioning. The team was a shit show of poorly executed game planning.

Teammates need to be together for at least a year and a half to begin to click as a cohesive unit, learning then knowing where their linemates will be almost by intuition. Putting the bottom three lines in a blender and dumpster diving for half a dozen new guys every single season results in this hot mess we see every year.

 

[Martin Skoula]

this is my biggest gripe with Keefe, he doesn't mix things around. People hated Babcock's stubbornness but Keefe is just as bad. He's too worried about what it would do to the relationship he has with Matthews and Marner. But he has no problems bumping Willy to the third line lol.

Yeah people act like he's the opposite of Babcock but the opposite of Babcock isn't being stubborn in the other direction, it's being adaptable.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

He is, did Matthews have issues with the police and hide it? Is that captain material? Honestly Matthews is amazing at what he does, scoring goals and everything but he doesn’t scream leader to me at all. I never see him working the refs, I never see him answering hard questions from the media, he’s pretty quiet on the bench except for the time he argued with Holl. I guess he does lead by example on the ice which is good.

when Marner is bad he deserves to be called out. I have no issues with that, what I have an issue with is this false narrative that he’s immature or baby or isn’t a good leader. Whenever there is a team issue the people you hear Keefe saying he addresses is usually Rielly and Marner, which to me suggests he is a big part of the room and the guys trust him to speak for them.

Rielly really is only guy they got who is captain material .. but Mitch is everyone's friend and always LOL type .. JT and Matty are loners .. Willy thinks he is greatest thing since sliced bread .. Muzzy is quiet and stand up respected Cup winning vet type

 

[Shooter2x]

Rielly really is only guy they got who is captain material .. but Mitch is everyone's friend and always LOL type .. JT and Matty are loners .. Willy thinks he is greatest thing since sliced bread .. Muzzy is quiet and stand up respected Cup winning vet type

Snipelander IS the greatest thing since sliced bread its time you all stopped fighting it.

 

[Sypher04]

Rielly really is only guy they got who is captain material .. but Mitch is everyone's friend and always LOL type .. JT and Matty are loners .. Willy thinks he is greatest thing since sliced bread .. Muzzy is quiet and stand up respected Cup winning vet type

I think it’s beyond fair to say that no one here is qualified to assess whether a player is a loner or not. We know nothing of their personal lives

 

[TorMapleJays]

I think it’s beyond fair to say that no one here is qualified to assess whether a player is a loner or not. We know nothing of their personal lives

Maybe that is true for you, but it’s foolish to assume that the hockey world doesn’t have lurkers on this site.

 

[HockeyVirus]

 

[Sypher04]

Maybe that is true for you, but it’s foolish to assume that the hockey world doesn’t have lurkers on this site.

I think the odds of there being anyone here directly privy to details of Matthews’ personal life are outrageously small.

 

[DarkKnight]

I find that comment beyond fascinating.

 

[saffronleaf]

And he doesn’t know how to separate them even for just a few games to try and shake things up and get guys going unfortunately…

yes went from a coach who would never put them together to one who refuses to separate them. how about a coach who can make adjustments based on how things are going.

 

[BallardEra]

Trotz fishing around. Low level stealth trolling.

 

[HockeyVirus]

I find that comment beyond fascinating.

Yeah could be Toronto media being Toronto media but who knows maybe there are some good candidates out there. Not saying I agree with firing Keefe though.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

A couple more games of this and Keefe will be gone and he should be.

Apparently one of biggest traits for success is decisiveness. Keefe and Dubas and their constant rotation of physical players then skilled players is ridiculous to watch.

Same goes with Keefes statements.... make a statement stick with it.

Tired of watching these guys go through the school of hard knocks.

When I see the teams construction, even though Dubas has changed from his all skill vision, I still keep thinking the mix is wrong somehow. It almost looks like a Vegan chef making a dinner with meat in it. They know why its there...they know people like it for some reason...but they can't quite get it right because they are Vegan. So the 2 of them keep adding "grit" but don't tell the rest of the team to be gritty...they designate a few guys to hit and skate and think that's all you need to do. It comes from having to change your vision to something you never really agreed with and this is the result.

Keefe as far as I am concerned is not a very good coach. He lacks any kind adjustment ability in game and he sometimes just throws guys together without changing the one line that needs to changed. It all seems so scattered. He won't be here past Christmas....

 

[leafsfan5]

Interesting point brought up

BOS just got a new coach
DET just got a new coach
MON just got a new coach
CHI just got a new coach
NYR has a coach they like

Who is the one team left????

 

[Mickey Marner]

Damn, Trotz is only 60, seems like he's been around forever. I figured he'd be pushing 70 by now. Probably has one last tenure in him.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

When I see the teams construction, even though Dubas has changed from his all skill vision, I still keep thinking the mix is wrong somehow. It almost looks like a Vegan chef making a dinner with meat in it. They know why its there...they know people like it for some reason...but they can't quite get it right because they are Vegan. So the 2 of them keep adding "grit" but don't tell the rest of the team to be gritty...they designate a few guys to hit and skate and think that's all you need to do. It comes from having to change your vision to something you never really agreed with and this is the result.

Keefe as far as I am concerned is not a very good coach. He lacks any kind adjustment ability in game and he sometimes just throws guys together without changing the one line that needs to changed. It all seems so scattered. He won't be here past Christmas....

I think back to that series against Columbus. Toronto seemed to have no answer for the hot goalies. Keefe decided to make a top line of Marner Matthews and Tavares with Nylander centering the 2nd line. He made life so easy for Tortorella. All he had to do was check/match up 1 line. After 2 and a half periods of Nylander failing at Center and the top line not really breaking through he then changes his plans. Piece of cake for Columbus. I knew at that point that he was not experienced and in over his head. He's the same coach today.

 

[Antropovsky]

I bet the skate sharper, bus driver and team chef are scared right now..... None of the lower level staff are safe from Dubas when the team is faltering.

 

[yubbers]

He is, did Matthews have issues with the police and hide it? Is that captain material? Honestly Matthews is amazing at what he does, scoring goals and everything but he doesn’t scream leader to me at all. I never see him working the refs, I never see him answering hard questions from the media, he’s pretty quiet on the bench except for the time he argued with Holl. I guess he does lead by example on the ice which is good.

when Marner is bad he deserves to be called out. I have no issues with that, what I have an issue with is this false narrative that he’s immature or baby or isn’t a good leader. Whenever there is a team issue the people you hear Keefe saying he addresses is usually Rielly and Marner, which to me suggests he is a big part of the room and the guys trust him to speak for them.

Oh yeah...that nothing burger this woke ass organization made a big deal of and didn't give him the C because of?

Try putting yourself in AMs shoes. You do some stupid drunk shit where you pull your pants down and ask ppl with your butt if you can have a mint. LOL. I guess you missed Ace Ventura. Stupid sure......but the organization makes a huge ordeal out of it and then hands the C that was always his to JT.

It was at that moment I knew he wouldn't resign. Hope I'm wrong but I've been deadly accurate for 5 years or so now

 

[LaPlante94]

If what I heard about how he coaches is true then I wouldn't be against him coaching here. I saw that someone said that when he went to Washington he told Ovi that when he has the puck do what you do best but when you don't have the puck do what I say. Worked in Washington and it almost worked on the Islanders with very limited offensive options there.

 

[Stephen]

When I see the teams construction, even though Dubas has changed from his all skill vision, I still keep thinking the mix is wrong somehow. It almost looks like a Vegan chef making a dinner with meat in it. They know why its there...they know people like it for some reason...but they can't quite get it right because they are Vegan. So the 2 of them keep adding "grit" but don't tell the rest of the team to be gritty...they designate a few guys to hit and skate and think that's all you need to do. It comes from having to change your vision to something you never really agreed with and this is the result.

Keefe as far as I am concerned is not a very good coach. He lacks any kind adjustment ability in game and he sometimes just throws guys together without changing the one line that needs to changed. It all seems so scattered. He won't be here past Christmas....

This current Leaf era feels like a spice blend of the 2000s Ottawa Senators and Pep Guardiola possession football. It's all about supreme finesse skills, touches of the puck, bump backs, the zippy perimeter cycle game, always looking for an opening through heavy traffic but hesitant to get the inside track. Less emphasis on goaltending, window dressing grit players on the periphery of the core, always seem to dominate but have issues finishing off a less talented, blue collar team who can box out, disrupt, beat down. Regular season dominance.

I don't think we need to overwhelm anyone with top heavy skill or reinvent the way the game is played. All we really need is a conventionally balanced team to support the game breakers we already have.

 

[Shooter2x]

These guys aren't going to balance the team. Even if they go that route they don't have the GM in place to get it done. I hold strongly the best chance they have this year is to go big on the addition and hope some ELCs step up as the season goes on.

We will need to turnover 5 guys or more (that's insane to have to do during a contender year how is dubas not fired yet) and if you do less then your changes were not as good as just going big with impact.

Stats don't lie, you can win a cup with just 5-7 guys going top heavy on the stats and everyone else just doesn't do anything stupid and shows some heart.