Speculation: Sharks Roster Discussion Part 2

[Nighthock]

Prefer Duchene because I like to say Dooo-shaaaane

 

[do0glas]

Duchene is crazy good.

I think you could possibly go

Vlasic-schlemko
Martin-burns
Dillon-demelo/heed

I wonder if thats worth it though

 

[AgentCooper]

Duchene is crazy good.

I think you could possibly go

Vlasic-schlemko
Martin-burns
Dillon-demelo/heed

I wonder if thats worth it though

Leaves us pretty thin on D. I wouldn't do it. Thornton-Couture-Hertl is a blessing as it is. I'd look to snag a solid 3/4C like Hanzal to push Tierney out and call it a day.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Leaves us pretty thin on D. I wouldn't do it. Thornton-Couture-Hertl is a blessing as it is. I'd look to snag a solid 3/4C like Hanzal to push Tierney out and call it a day.

AZ fans think that Hanzal will cost a 1st round pick +. I do not want a Hanzal as a 4C for that cost. He is also a UFA.

 

[Limekiller]

From looking at Avs fans' posts on the Duchene and/or Landeskog rumors, they're insisting that the D/D-prospect they get HAS to be the main value in the proposal, which seems to be backed up by some statements from Friedman. What it sounds like they're looking for is names like Hanifin, Fowler, Trouba, Ghostisbere, Sergachev, etc., and they are almost exclusively looking for LD only. We don't have ANY D-prospects or young D at that level. Think the Jones/RyJo trade as a comparison. Duchene is probably better than RyJo, and none of our D prospects hold a candle to Jones. Braun is going to be 30 and so will be of very little (if any interest) as the main component of a trade, besides being a RD. Maybe if Roy had had stellar seasons this year and last, instead of being injured, we'd have a piece they would want. But Mueller isn't in the same time zone as the names being thrown about, unless he starts seriously breaking out in his time in the NHL in a BIG way. (and probably not even then) They're really not interested in forward prospects, because why give up a proven forward for a magic bean that MIGHT be as good someday at the same role? Much as I'd love to get either one of Duchene or Landeskog, it's very likely not happening given what we would have to offer.

 

[AgentCooper]

AZ fans think that Hanzal will cost a 1st round pick +. I do not want a Hanzal as a 4C for that cost. He is also a UFA.

Hanzal was just an example, but since you made a few points about him, I'll respond. Hanzal is, at his very least value to us, a 4C. But he offers a lot more than that: specifically, a solid top 9 injury replacement at C, and even more important, far more options with our forward lines if something isn't working in the playoffs. UFA doesn't really scare me either. He could be retainable. For a playoff team, that might be worth a late first. And if it really is a 1st +, I'm skeptical, there are surely other options.

 

[Sideshow Raheem]

Given Thornton's decline, Duchene would immediately step in as our best offensive forward especially at even strength. That's worth a hell of a lot to a team whose main issue is that they can't score.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Hanzal was just an example, but since you made a few points about him, I'll respond. Hanzal is, at his very least value to us, a 4C. But he offers a lot more than that: specifically, a solid top 9 injury replacement at C, and even more important, far more options with our forward lines if something isn't working in the playoffs. UFA doesn't really scare me either. He could be retainable. For a playoff team, that might be worth a late first. And if it really is a 1st +, I'm skeptical, there are surely other options.

And my point with getting Duchene is to make sure that we can be competitive for years to come. It would cost us more than we want to give but I would be lying if I said I am not concerned about Hertl's injuries or Thornton's decline.

Duchene gives us what Hanzal gives. And more.

 

[Sideshow Raheem]

And as much as I think faceoffs are overrated, Couture being sub-40% this deep into the season and his possession numbers being much lower than they've ever been before is concerning. Imagine how much stronger we could be, in a number of different ways, if he was moved to the wing full time. If the Avs somehow accept that 1st+Mueller+Meier+Boedker package:

Couture - Thornton - Pavelski
Marleau - Duchene - Labanc
Goldobin - Hertl - Donskoi
Karlsson - Tierney - Wingels

 

[AgentCooper]

And my point with getting Duchene is to make sure that we can be competitive for years to come. It would cost us more than we want to give but I would be lying if I said I am not concerned about Hertl's injuries or Thornton's decline.

Duchene gives us what Hanzal gives. And more.

That's all fine. Any other year I'd be right there with you. But I firmly believe that this is our last year to compete for the cup considering Thornton's play, so I'd think long and hard before putting Mirco Mueller one injury away from being a fixture on my bottom pairing.

 

[do0glas]

Just because we go for duchene doesnt stop us from getting a dman

 

[Juxtaposer]

Just because we go for duchene doesnt stop us from getting a dman

Yup!

 

[Sideshow Raheem]

Just because we go for duchene doesnt stop us from getting a dman

Not necessarily but it'd be extremely difficult to trade Braun in a package for Duchene and then move other assets to replace Braun, all before the deadline. And, again, I don't think Braun is all that valuable to the Avalanche given his age and handedness. Dillon might be more valuable to them and he'd be an easier loss to stomach.

 

[CrypTic]

AZ fans think that Hanzal will cost a 1st round pick +. I do not want a Hanzal as a 4C for that cost. He is also a UFA.

I agree. If he really costs a 1st +, there probably are other options. Maybe Henrique (age 27 in Feb, currently 2C on NJD but can play wing, ~45 points/year, 4M through 2019, fans want 1st + or NHL ready D or C prospects). Maybe the NYI or Florida will be sellers.

I like Hanzal but a 1st plus seems high, especially because he's often injured.

 

[CrypTic]

Not necessarily but it'd be extremely difficult to trade Braun in a package for Duchene and then move other assets to replace Braun, all before the deadline. And, again, I don't think Braun is all that valuable to the Avalanche given his age and handedness. Dillon might be more valuable to them and he'd be an easier loss to stomach.

I agree that Braun isn't likely to be appealing to the Avs in a trade for Duchene. If they're trading Duchene, they're probably rebuilding.

I don't think we have what the Avs seem to want: a young high-end D, preferably LHD. Braun is older than they want and right handed. I'm not sure why they'd want him but it sounds like maybe there are rumors. Getting Duchene is probably a pipe dream for us. I doubt that they'd want Dillon (or Ryan or Mueller) as the centerpiece but if so, sign me up!

 

[AgentCooper]

I agree. If he really costs a 1st +, there probably are other options. Maybe Henrique (age 27 in Feb, currently 2C on NJD but can play wing, ~45 points/year, 4M through 2019, fans want 1st + or NHL ready D or C prospects). Maybe the NYI or Florida will be sellers.

I like Hanzal but a 1st plus seems high, especially because he's often injured.

Haha, alright I've learned my lesson. Next time I won't toss out any examples, because it seems the word "Hanzal" was the only thing about my post that anyone processed. I'd rather not shell out for a young star right now. I'd look to grab a small bit of depth and get ready for the playoffs.

 

[CrypTic]

Haha, alright I've learned my lesson. Next time I won't toss out any examples, because it seems the word "Hanzal" was the only thing about my post that anyone processed. I'd rather not shell out for a young star right now. I'd look to grab a small bit of depth and get ready for the playoffs.

You said maybe someone else so I gave an example. (Didn't think I needed to quote every post in the discussion.) If you have others, please share. Or say why mine isn't as good as Hanzal. That's fine. It's not like we're GMs here or what we say means anything in terms of who will get traded.

 

[do0glas]

Not necessarily but it'd be extremely difficult to trade Braun in a package for Duchene and then move other assets to replace Braun, all before the deadline. And, again, I don't think Braun is all that valuable to the Avalanche given his age and handedness. Dillon might be more valuable to them and he'd be an easier loss to stomach.

Dillon just isn't going to get it done.

But i agree braun may not appeal there.

This is a year we might need to do the rental thing.

 

[AgentCooper]

You said maybe someone else so I gave an example. (Didn't think I needed to quote every post in the discussion.) If you have others, please share. Or say why mine isn't as good as Hanzal. That's fine. It's not like we're GMs here or what we say means anything in terms of who will get traded.

I'm not referring to you specifically. Henrique sounds good. Sure.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Dillon just isn't going to get it done.

But i agree braun may not appeal there.

This is a year we might need to do the rental thing.

Or a smart buy-low on Ryan Strome.

 

[do0glas]

Or a smart buy-low on Ryan Strome.

Not opposed to it. I truthfully never come away very impressed by him though

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

My concern with Landeskog is the wear and tear he has with his physical style of play.

True, but he's still pretty young. If they get 4-6 good years out of him you have to consider it a success.

 

[Sideshow Raheem]

Dillon just isn't going to get it done.

But i agree braun may not appeal there.

This is a year we might need to do the rental thing.

Dillon alone won't get it done but if it's something like 1st+Dillon+Meier+Boedker that might be in the running. Truthfully I just don't see them getting someone of Gostisbehere or even Fowler's caliber for Duchene (and not because Duchene isn't worth either player, because he is and then some). If the Canes are willing to move Hanifin for him then no one else should even bother but there's a reason things like the Ryan O'Reilly trade go down: it's tough to get equal value for these types of players. Especially when you're a team in Colorado's position who has hit rock bottom and made it clear Duchene is on the market. Sometimes quantity is all you can get.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Not opposed to it. I truthfully never come away very impressed by him though

He's been meh this year and wasn't great last year, but he was absolutely fantastic the year before and given how awful the Isles org/coaching is, I think there's a reasonable chance Strome isn't primarily to blame here. I'm not saying Strome is a lock to set the world on fire, but he has a ton of upside and taking a small risk to acquire him would be extremely smart.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I would think that Mueller, Meier, and Tierney with a 2nd or 3rd for Duchene would make sense from both sides. Braun doesn't make sense for them if they're going rebuild.