Confirmed with Link: Shanahan, Dubas, Keefe all staying

[Dreakmur]

And here you are!

Here I am generally happy with the team but also understanding we need to make some changes to get over the hump. Only in some weird universe would that be considered anything but reasonable.

 

[LilySmoov]

He did it by spending 50% of the cap on 4 similar forwards…….that has never been done before and it has hampered the construction of the rest of the team.
I believe someone already posted that no player making over 10 million has ever won the cup and we have 3 of them

I mean it's clear at this point that my main objection to your post was the specific usage of the word "rebuild". The Leafs' roster is definitely a bit atypical in how very top-heavy it's constructed, I wouldn't argue otherwise.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

There are 31 losers every season. They are just as loserish as we are.

However the Leafs have lost to Stanley Cup finalists recently and that's not fair because it shows they they played really good teams. They're all huge losers. But they're really good.

It's true. Toronto will likely have a good Regular season next year and fall in the playoffs. They are a good team with a lot to prove. Overall it's hard to stand behind them as a fan because of their consistent playoff futility.

 

[hotpaws]

Let me get this straight, you don't think we have the cap space to build good depth around the core, but you also think 25% of our core 4 is overrated?

So we just magically cruise during the regular season eh? Shitty depth, over rated 2C, but whatever, rack up the wins just because. Surely you don't think matthews and marner alone counteracted our garbage goaltending and stretches of abysmal defensive play? Counteracted to the extent the second half of the season was a snooze fest standings wise.

You have no idea what Tavares impact is for this team. You should go see a game live so you can witness him all over the ice. I guarantee you whatever you fill that cap space with will not match Tavares' impact, especially if you go the UFA route.

what impact could Tavares possibly have on this team ? Mathews/Marner/Nylander have improved since we signed JT and we still can't get out of the first rd even though as you say our depth is "good"

JT gets by on name recognition and the hype he had coming out of jr where he scored more goals as a 16 year old than Gretz . If i ripped the name off his back your opinion on him would be vastly different .

i've watched him live since he was a kid in the GTHL , your problem is you refuse to believe what your seeing , this was the exact same thing that happened with Phaneuf where some of our fans fought to the death believing he was a num1 D up to the second when he was moved for scraps and cap dumps

 

[capfit9]

Of course you wouldn’t , lol .

points over wins i guess

Naz is about to get $7-9m+ And he cost his new team their season in 2 of the 3 years since being moved, marleau was a carcass at the time who was going to count against cap no matter what unless traded, kap is probably not going to be qualified, if mango didn’t have an extra year of term jersey who need good players would probably walk away from him, and Hyman has one decent knee and 6 more years of term at $5.5
How exactly do any of these guys over a ppg C make the team better?

depth

 

[egd27]

6 years in a row…. Bad luck!

And a couple of those years they weren't even facing contenders.

 

[Gabriel426]

I‘m legit wondering who will win a series first, Seattle or the Leafs?
Could be quite a race.

Vegas won before the Leafs already.

 

[Nineteen67]

Vegas won before the Leafs already.

Vegas had a SCF patch on their kit, something the Leafs have never had.



I doubt they did that in the 60s.

 

[Nineteen67]

And a couple of those years they weren't even facing contenders.

Wash - I‘d say they were
Boston - sure. both years
Montreal - not a chance
TB - Yep

 

[Seras]

It's true. Toronto will likely have a good Regular season next year and fall in the playoffs. They are a good team with a lot to prove. Overall it's hard to stand behind them as a fan because of their consistent playoff futility.

15 teams fail in the playoffs every year

 

[Ianturnedbull]

15 teams fail in the playoffs every year

Expand on that. What is your real point?

Yes 15 teams don't win the cup, but some show signs that they are going to transcend. They do this by winning playoff rounds.

Toronto hasn't even won a playoff round since 2004. Their bar is low. It will be huge if they can win a playoff round. To many of us that is pathetic. All this talent, all these wasted assets, years of drafting, firing coaches/GMs, etc. All we have to show for it is respect in the handshake line.

I don't know how you can lump TOR with the other teams. Especially the overacheiving ones. Based on TOR's futility there's no real way of saying where they are. If you're half glass full you might say: "next year they could win a playoff round,."

 

[francis246]

what impact could Tavares possibly have on this team ? Mathews/Marner/Nylander have improved since we signed JT and we still can't get out of the first rd even though as you say our depth is "good"

JT gets by on name recognition and the hype he had coming out of jr where he scored more goals as a 16 year old than Gretz . If i ripped the name off his back your opinion on him would be vastly different .

i've watched him live since he was a kid in the GTHL , your problem is you refuse to believe what your seeing , this was the exact same thing that happened with Phaneuf where some of our fans fought to the death believing he was a num1 D up to the second when he was moved for scraps and cap dumps

Phanuef I believe had an NMC/NTC which affected where he could be moved to and thus his return. Also his returns had more to do with his contract. Phanuef was a #1. He never had a reliable d partner his entire time in Toronto. The dcore was complete ass while he was here. Burke should be ashamed of it. The Phanuef trade was one of Burkes best but he didn’t surround him with an NHL level d core.

 

[colchar]

what impact could Tavares possibly have on this team ? Mathews/Marner/Nylander have improved since we signed JT and we still can't get out of the first rd even though as you say our depth is "good"

JT gets by on name recognition and the hype he had coming out of jr where he scored more goals as a 16 year old than Gretz . If i ripped the name off his back your opinion on him would be vastly different .

i've watched him live since he was a kid in the GTHL , your problem is you refuse to believe what your seeing , this was the exact same thing that happened with Phaneuf where some of our fans fought to the death believing he was a num1 D up to the second when he was moved for scraps and cap dumps

 

[Gabriel426]

Wash - I‘d say they were
Boston - sure. both years
Montreal - not a chance
TB - Yep

you forgot BJs, unless you count playins as not playoffs, then a few here would argue with you about that till season opener. lol

Phanuef I believe had an NMC/NTC which affected where he could be moved to and thus his return. Also his returns had more to do with his contract. Phanuef was a #1. He never had a reliable d partner his entire time in Toronto. The dcore was complete ass while he was here. Burke should be ashamed of it. The Phanuef trade was one of Burkes best but he didn’t surround him with an NHL level d core.

Dion was a #1 on the Leafs. Thats a fact but I would not call him a #1 around the League.

 

[hotpaws]

Phanuef I believe had an NMC/NTC which affected where he could be moved to and thus his return. Also his returns had more to do with his contract. Phanuef was a #1. He never had a reliable d partner his entire time in Toronto. The dcore was complete ass while he was here. Burke should be ashamed of it. The Phanuef trade was one of Burkes best but he didn’t surround him with an NHL level d core.

he had a 10 team list he could be traded to i believe , he wasn't a number 1 that's why Calgary dealt him fpr peanuts and that's why we could only get scraps while taking dumps back

then Ott had to retain while just getting a dump back

Dion burst into the league but that early promise fizzled out , his name recognition stayed strong to the end however . It's truly remarkable how much some peoples judgement of a player is so affected by the name on the back .

 

[francis246]

You have to look at it as what do they do with the money they saved on Tavares. You still have Kadri on the cheap deal. You don’t use the assets to trade for Campbell. You keep Trevor Moore who would be very good on the 3rd or 4th line. You use the money and improve depth on the bottom 6 or get a top 6 winger. There’s lots of possibilities.

Do Matthews and Marner ask for as much with no Tavares not here? Maybe you end up saving more money on their contracts and have more cap space to play with. These are all questions we will never know the answer to.

It is what it is at this point. You got to move on and figure out with what they have now how to get over the hump. These are fun hypotheticals and this is a message board so you can have these questions.

Again Trevor Moore was good but he was never going to be the Los Angeles Trevor Moore in Toronto. That has a lot to do with opportunity and playing time and the fact of the matter was Trevor Moore is a good young player but he was run of the mill and we already had a few guys in the system who play like Moore. Steeves or Robertson have the potential to be just as good as Moore if not better. Moore is replaceable.

Not sure what Campbell has to do with the cap? Campbell was getting acquired regardless because of injuries to goaltending. We already had Andersen signed so to assume that the organization would have signed another goalie is false because the organization had fully committed to Andersen well before signing Tavares. And I don’t think they had any intention on moving on from Andersen before his contract expired until the very last year of his deal where he got injured.

As mentioned before, the UFA deals for top 6 wingers starting from 2018 till now have been brutal. So it’s highly likely we would have gotten burned on a few of those signings. Furthermore even if we had the cap space to make a trade, that would have meant we would have spent assets to get a top six forward. Who knows what that may have done to the depth of the team or the prospect pool. It’s not illogical to assume the team could potentially be in a worse state. More cap space may have forced the team to make more mistakes to be honest.

 

[Racer88]

From what I can tell, there have only been 3 UFA goalie signings greater than 5m since 2018.

Bobrovsky was signed for 10.0m/year until he's 37, and so far, he has a +2.4 GSAx in 135 regular season games, and a +0.4 GSAx in 17 GP in the playoffs.
Markstrom was signed for 6.0m/year until he's 36, and so far, he has a +1.5 GSAx in 106 regular season games, and a +1.3 GSAx in 12 GP in the playoffs.
Grubauer was signed for 5.9m/year until he's 35, and so far, he has a -33.7 GSAx in 55 regular season games, and a +0.0 GSAx in 0 GP in the playoffs.

Look at all the amazing goaltending that our dang cap allocation has cost us.

So if its not the cap allocation stopping us from signing a good goaltender then it must be either Dubas’s incompetence evaluating goalies or he simply treats the position as an afterthought.

Let me get this straight, you don't think we have the cap space to build good depth around the core, but you also think 25% of our core 4 is overrated?

So we just magically cruise during the regular season eh? Shitty depth, over rated 2C, but whatever, rack up the wins just because. Surely you don't think matthews and marner alone counteracted our garbage goaltending and stretches of abysmal defensive play? Counteracted to the extent the second half of the season was a snooze fest standings wise.

You have no idea what Tavares impact is for this team. You should go see a game live so you can witness him all over the ice. I guarantee you whatever you fill that cap space with will not match Tavares' impact, especially if you go the UFA route.

Tavares hasn’t put the team over the top in regards to winning…….isn’t that what you would expect when you sign a free agent for 11 million dollars

 

[francis246]

So if its not the cap allocation stopping us from signing a good goaltender then it must be either Dubas’s incompetence evaluating goalies or he simply treats the position as an afterthought.


Tavares hasn’t put the team over the top in regards to winning…….isn’t that what you would expect when you sign a free agent for 11 million dollars

To put the failure of the team squarely on one players shoulders is flat out dumb as f***. End of story.

The core isn’t and hasn’t been the problem with this team. The problem is the bottom six just isn’t gritty enough, bottom six is soft. It’s just the wrong players at the bottom of the line up. It still boggles my mind that we couldn’t acquire Nick Paul. Tampa is great at finding value adds, it has nothing to do with cap really. It has everything to do with missing the mark and not identifying the right players at the deadline.

Last year we got Foligno when we probably should have gotten Taylor Hall. This year we get Blackwell when we should have gotten Hagel/Rakell/Paul.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

To put the failure of the team squarely on one players shoulders is flat out dumb as f***. End of story.

The core isn’t and hasn’t been the problem with this team. The problem is the bottom six just isn’t gritty enough, bottom six is soft. It’s just the wrong players at the bottom of the line up. It still boggles my mind that we couldn’t acquire Nick Paul. Tampa is great at finding value adds, it has nothing to do with cap really. It has everything to do with missing the mark and not identifying the right players at the deadline.

Last year we got Foligno when we probably should have gotten Taylor Hall. This year we get Blackwell when we should have gotten Hagel/Rakell/Paul.

Bottom 6 doesn't need more grit; it needs more purpose. Our 3rd line served a purpose, and I had no issue with our 3rd line that series. Sure, some more clutch offense would have been nice, but they did provide some clutch offense and they served their defense/shutdown purpose fairly well.

Our 4th line did nothing tangibly good. Sure, they provided some energy/gritty shifts here or there, but they were getting outplayed even against easy competition, didn't provide offense, didn't provide defense, couldn't chew up minutes for our top guys... Running around hitting guys for 8 minutes a night is not good enough in the playoffs.

In the grand scheme of things, a 4th line does not matter much. But if they pulled their weight even as much as the 3rd line did, but perhaps with more of an offensive focus, we win that series. We should have some guys who can provide PP value on there. Maybe some a guy who can PK reasonably well too (like a Kase). They don't need to be large or overly gritty, and they don't need to be amazing shutdown guys either, but they should be hungry any time they go out on the ice and they need to bring that hunger at both ends. I think it goes without saying that they actually need to be good players too.

 

[mikeyz]

Not sure, but it's funnier than boomer.

Being elite doesn't matter in the playoffs. Only winning does.

Someone you have on ignore?

Yeah that's possible. Lol

 

[Bomber0104]

Bottom 6 doesn't need more grit; it needs more purpose. Our 3rd line served a purpose, and I had no issue with our 3rd line that series. Sure, some more clutch offense would have been nice, but they did provide some clutch offense and they served their defense/shutdown purpose fairly well.

Our 4th line did nothing tangibly good. Sure, they provided some energy/gritty shifts here or there, but they were getting outplayed even against easy competition, didn't provide offense, didn't provide defense, couldn't chew up minutes for our top guys... Running around hitting guys for 8 minutes a night is not good enough in the playoffs.

In the grand scheme of things, a 4th line does not matter much. But if they pulled their weight even as much as the 3rd line did, but perhaps with more of an offensive focus, we win that series. We should have some guys who can provide PP value on there. Maybe some a guy who can PK reasonably well too (like a Kase). They don't need to be large or overly gritty, and they don't need to be amazing shutdown guys either, but they should be hungry any time they go out on the ice and they need to bring that hunger at both ends. I think it goes without saying that they actually need to be good players too.

So all in one post you're simultaneously blaming the 4th line yet claiming a 4th line doesn't serve a purpose / matter much.

A 4th line should definitely serve at least a few purposes and matter over the course of a game and series, the biggest of whichl is giving the first two lines a breathe in continuous 5-on-5 play as well as taking on PK duties which are minutes that top players shouldn't have to endure (time-wise + injury-risk)...

Basic stuff here, let's never understate the importance of having balance throughout a team.

And as an aside, it's always hilarious to me how the fans seems to think pro hockey players are these supreme cardio-machines that don't suffer from fatigue. Try playing a two minute shift in hockey or if you can't, run a beep-test and let me know how your results go towards the end.

Cup winners always seem to have that running through their veins.

Toronto would do well to learn from that, seeing as how they're basically the most imbalanced team in existence in the NHL, right now.

The rookie GM who's never won a thing seems to stand by that mantra though.

Hasn't worked yet even to the tune of winning a round.

It's incredible there's still believers out there.

 

[Stephen]

Nobody has to "cheer" for TB - they are a dynasty and it was easy to predict them taking care of their other opponents like they have. Some people knew thus, others didn't.

But no, winning a 3rd cup doesn't make them any better than they are now.

And yes, the Leafa outplayed them and were unlucky to lose.

No, we didn’t outplay Tampa Bay and they weren’t lucky to beat the Leafs. We did performed a lot better than other NHL teams in the first 3 rounds and mopped the floor with them in individual games and put ourselves into a position to knock them off but couldn’t get the job done.

 

[leafsfan5]

Leafs haven't proven they an beat any team and with the holes we have.....

That's true, they have to show they can beat a club. But, the competition isn't getting particularly stronger, which is always a good thing

As long as Tampa remain in the same division as TOR, they are still a force. Tampa can win a playoff series with great goaltending alone.

100%, I don't want to play them again lol. Just too good of a team all around

 

[Bomber0104]

That's true, they have to show they can beat a club. But, the competition isn't getting particularly stronger, which is always a good thing


100%, I don't want to play them again lol. Just too good of a team all around

Are the Leafs getting stronger as team?

Seems we're always treading water each off-season trying to band-aid holes left by out-going players with no prospects ready when they should be by now..

 

[leafsfan5]

Ah the mark of a true champion.
We just have to wait until the other teams suck and hope nobody else gets good.

Then we are golden.

Who cares how we win? Whether it's through other teams slowing down or not

Washington had to wait until the Pens slowed down and then took over in 2018. You think they care? Get it done however you can, it doesn't need to be pretty