Confirmed with Link: Shanahan, Dubas, Keefe all staying

[Racer88]

Fire Shanahan/Dubas (Yay or Nay)

No cap left for quality depth 50% of the cap allocated to 4 players (all forwards) No NHL experience (coach/gm) Fire Shanahan, Dubas Get someone new with solid NHL experience (GM/Coach) tandem that does not bend to players' demands based on how much players make Not dubas' fault - players...

hfboards.mandatory.com

guess we could have just bumped this "one more year" thread instead o starting a new one

No worries we can save it for next year

 

[ToneDog]

Yeah Kucherov is an amazing player. Funny how in discussions about who the best player in the league is, it's Matthews and McDavid that are always mentioned, then some Draisaitl, used to be MacKinnon and sometimes Hedman gets mentioned but never Kucherov. Guy consistently produces in the regular season and he's owned the playoffs last couple of years, how the hell does he get to fly under the radar?

I've rolled my eyes in previous years when for example we lose to MTL and some posters go oh look, MTL went to the finals, we lost to such a good team. What a crock of shit! We were huge favourites against MTL and that's that. Same applies here to TB but the thing is, they ARE an elite team, they've been THE ELITE TEAM for years now and we don't need to see them go to the finals before we recognize that simple fact.

It's funny how people are yelling 6 1st round exist in a row. I wonder, are they just pretending that there's nothing different about this year's performance or do they really not get it?

I don't care what anyone says, this is a really good hockey team we have here and all we need is a #1 goalie. f*** the haters.

Kutch played with a temperature of 102 in game #7 vs Leafs according to Marek. I'm still not convinced Tampa did not toy with us as their stars pretty much let their foot soldiers lead the way.

A true #1 goalie can alone win you a SC but where are you going to find him and he is not signing for Soup or Mrazek money.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

We had no one driving to the net in game 7.
Vasi was on his game do something to distrupt his game.

We had exactly one drive to the net by Willy of all people and it resulted in getting a PP. We don't like those types of attempts at scoring. We want to pass it into the net because we are skill...skill and more skill. Driving the net like a banshee is for the Nick Paul's of the world that don't have the skill to do anything else. This is a philosophical problem as much as it is a players refusal problem. We still take risks when we shouldn't because the analytics say 53% of the time it works. Look at San Diego of the NFL. Their head coach went for it on 4th down so many times because that's what the probabilities said were the best moves and failed enough to miss the playoffs. Conventional wisdom or common sense is needed with this teams approach.

 

[Racer88]

That would be the most boss move ever if he just turned to Dubas and Keefe at the start of the press conference and told them to pack their shit and get the hell out.

or better yet have security show up part way thru and escort both of them out of the building

 

[Gary Nylund]

JT was their best/most productive player in the last 2 playoff games. If you believe Dekes, JT scored 3 goals in those two games. Doubt Dubas can move him with that cap hit.

I believe we should make better use of JT by using him on the PK and moving him to PP2.

I stopped reading here. I mean let's be serious.

lol what because they showed some push back this year> Guess I'm a hater then and expect more than first round exits. I don't give a f*** who we lose to.

All we need is a #1 goalie, a backup, to get rid of a crappy overpaid backup, JT on the decline, Muzzin on the decline, Mik prob gone, Engvall probably gone.....simple!

Because instead of folding in game 7 like previous years, they outplayed an elite team and only lost because the worlds best goaltender found his form just in time.

You really don't see the difference between that game 7 and previous years? Ok then.

That would be the most boss move ever if he just turned to Dubas and Keefe at the start of the press conference and told them to pack their shit and get the hell out.

That would be hilarious. It would also be classless thing to do and would make quality candidates think twice before coming here. So not smart.

 

[ToneDog]

The Leafs are proud of their data-driven approach. So here's some data to help understand where the problem is:

In the past 4 playoff series Toronto is 7-5 in the first 3 games of those series, 3-8 in the last 3 games (2 games for the Columbus series), including 1-5 over the past 2 series. In series-deciding games they've scored a total of 3 games in those 4 years.

As series progress typically there are less powerplays, the scoring comes down as the games become tighter checking. The very simple conclusion then is that this team cannot win tight-checking, low scoring games in the playoffs. And they're not "getting close", in fact the 1-5 stat shows if anything they are getting worse at it.

So the challenge for Dubas and Keefe is to sort out how do they get this roster (as is, or with changes) to be able to score when their opponent is making it more difficult to score. Clearly, their stars so far have been unable to.

Matthews, Marner, Tavares and Nylander specifically seem to be able to put up solid numbers overall (as do most teams' best players), but in those critical late-series games they, or anyone else for that matter can't buy a goal. That has to change. And again, it's clear they are no closer to figuring that out than they were 4 years ago.

Tavares' best games were gamess 6 and 7 but you are not wrong. It is why I said this team can beat any team on any given night of the regular season but asked can they beat a playoff team 4 out of 7 ?? So far, a big NO.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Kutch played with a temperature of 102 in game #7 vs Leafs according to Marek. I'm still not convinced Tampa did not toy with us as their stars pretty much let their foot soldiers lead the way.

A true #1 goalie can alone win you a SC but where are you going to find him and he is not signing for Soup or Mrazek money.

I have no idea but luckily, it's not my job.

But yeah my biggest worry is wondering if Dubas is willing to move Nylander for cap room if that's what it takes. If we roll into next season with another big question mark in net, that would be ... um ... I'll just be polite and say disappointing.

 

[GrizzGreen]

Because instead of folding in game 7 like previous years, they outplayed an elite team and only lost because the worlds best goaltender found his form just in time.

You really don't see the difference between that game 7 and previous years? Ok then.

Completely agree. IMO Keefe and Dubas should be gone simply because they failed to win... you can't keep losing and expect to keep your job, regardless of how much better the Leafs looked.

Failing to close out in 6 during OT was tough

 

[ToneDog]

I stopped reading here. I mean let's be serious.



Because instead of folding in game 7 like previous years, they outplayed an elite team and only lost because the worlds best goaltender found his form just in time.

You really don't see the difference between that game 7 and previous years? Ok then.


That would be hilarious. It would also be classless thing to do and would make quality candidates think twice before coming here. So not smart.

LOL. Only in the minds of some Leaf fans can you score as many goals as your opponent in a game and lose said game.

Completely agree. IMO Keefe and Dubas should be gone simply because they failed to win... you can't keep losing and expect to keep your job, regardless of how much better the Leafs looked.

Failing to close out in 6 during OT was tough

In Leafland you can.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I stopped reading here. I mean let's be serious.



Because instead of folding in game 7 like previous years, they outplayed an elite team and only lost because the worlds best goaltender found his form just in time.

You really don't see the difference between that game 7 and previous years? Ok then.


That would be hilarious. It would also be classless thing to do and would make quality candidates think twice before coming here. So not smart.

I see the difference I just expect more than playing better than they have in previous years.
And I thought we are elite?

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Boosh is getting the old Ceci treatment - he looked terrible because he's playing too high in the lineup. Make him our 6th/7th dman, and he's fine.

Put him with Rielly...well...now you are trying to hide that pairing. Rielly should be playing top minutes with a true top 2/3 dman.

 

[ToneDog]

I have no idea but luckily, it's not my job.

But yeah my biggest worry is wondering if Dubas is willing to move Nylander for cap room if that's what it takes. If we roll into next season with another big question mark in net, that would be ... um ... I'll just be polite and say disappointing.

Personally I'd rather them run it back than allowing Dubas to trade Willie. No way Dubas keeps his job after his team's 5th first round exit so I'd let the next GM figure out who stays and who goes.

 

[Trapper]

Dubas could have chosen Trotz instead of Keefe previously, and he could still chose him now after.

Trotz has won 8 playoff series during Keefe's time as coach who has won 8 playoff games.

Yesterday when Dubas was asked this similar question

Asked Tuesday whether he’s considered what the impact could be of adding a veteran coach like Barry Trotz or Pete DeBoer — both of whom were relieved of their duties by their former NHL clubs this month — Dubas said he hasn't considered moving on from Keefe for a more veteran voice.

“It hasn’t crossed my mind, and I think my reason for that is my belief in Sheldon and the job that he’s done here so far,” the GM said.

“But also, that I only think Sheldon’s going to get better. I think when we speak of Sheldon 10, 15 years from now, it’ll be in the same way that you spoke of those two great coaches . And I think that’ll be played out here in Toronto.”

So Dubas instead of getting the ready made "GREAT coaches" today he believes Keefe will grow into that in 10-15 years time. So ss long as Dubas is the GM, then Keefe will be the coach regardless if better option exist and regardless of the playoff results and all of Leaf Nation fanbase needs to sit and wait for Keefe to grow into being a good coach as the season pass in failure.

Please don’t tell me they are going to roll it back 15 more times.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Last coach: Set a franchise record for reg season pts. Lost 3 straight postseason road series. Fired. See ya. Good riddance.

This coach: Set a franchise record for reg season pts. Lost 3 straight postseason series, all with home ice. “No chance he’s fired. That’s laughable”

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

I am a fan of Willy Nylander, but he was 1st in GA/60 and had the team's worst G+/60 in the regular season despite getting great zone starts.

The entire 2nd line is underperforming based on the cap allocation. They raised their game slightly in the playoffs, but were still get buried 5v5. We shouldn't need to dodge matchups with a 20m dollar line.

It's not that people want to trade Nylander, it's that we have to make a move if we want to allocate more resources to the 2nd and 3rd lines, and goaltending. Nylander feels like a luxury who just happens to be the worst performing player in our weakest area.

 

[Mess]

Last coach: Set a franchise record for reg season pts. Lost 3 straight postseason road series. Fired. See ya. Good riddance.

This coach: Set a franchise record for reg season pts. Lost 3 straight postseason series, all with home ice. “No chance he’s fired. That’s laughable”

Sheldon Keefe says he felt the Leafs got a lot more respect in tonight’s handshake line than in previous series.

It’s not all about wins and losses, sometimes getting “More respect in the handshake line” is what you play all season to achieve

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Last coach: Set a franchise record for reg season pts. Lost 3 straight postseason road series. Fired. See ya. Good riddance.

This coach: Set a franchise record for reg season pts. Lost 3 straight postseason series, all with home ice. “No chance he’s fired. That’s laughable”

That's a little disengenious, there were obviously stylistic clashes with Babcock, not to mention the whole Marner scandal. I think Keefe has been a good coach, but he needs better pieces to work with.

 

[Trapper]

Personally I'd rather them run it back than allowing Dubas to trade Willie. No way Dubas keeps his job after his team's 5th first round exit so I'd let the next GM figure out who stays and who goes.

At this point I really wish I could believe any of that.
What’s next year if we lose? A handshake and a pat on the back? We felt we were even closer than real close?

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Sheldon Keefe says he felt the Leafs got a lot more respect in tonight’s handshake line than in previous series.

It’s not all about wins and losses, sometimes getting “More respect in the handshake line” is what you play all season to achieve

Mess, maybe you should post the full quote. You seem to be intentionally leaving out the part where Keefe says "we aren't in the respect game, we're in the winning game" or something along those lines.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I see the difference I just expect more than playing better than they have in previous years.
And I thought we are elite?

Elite is a subjective term so depends who you talk to. I say we need to have playoff success first and I can't stand all the bragging that regularly goes on here during the regular season becuase we won a bunch of games in November or WE.

Personally I'd rather them run it back than allowing Dubas to trade Willie. No way Dubas keeps his job after his team's 5th first round exit so I'd let the next GM figure out who stays and who goes.

Haha, gotta respect that deep thinking.

 

[WTFMAN99]

3 with Dubas as GM. Still not a good track record, but he also shouldn't be blamed for the failures of his predecessors.

4

Boston 2nd time around because we had JT remember?

He only owns 2/3 of it. It's still not a good track record though and you're now in the prime of these guy's career, something should have clicked by now.

I don't think he would be blamed, but to use a hypothetical, if Steve Yzerman walked out on Detroit because it was simply way too hard and he went to Colorado and won on Joe Sakic's team, I don't think he would have been remembered the same way as the legend that he was. Even worse, if he went somewhere else and they didn't win...

On the flip side, does being behind Crosby diminish Malkin at all? I think he's still a top 100 player of all time.

 

[ShaneFalco]

That's a little disengenious, there were obviously stylistic clashes with Babcock, not to mention the whole Marner scandal

Fair enough

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

At this point I really wish I could believe any of that.
What’s next year if we lose? A handshake and a pat on the back? We felt we were even closer than real close?

Next year is a six-blade razor for the closest shave yet, plus moisturizing aftershave to make you feel softer than ever.

 

[Trapper]

Next year is a six-blade razor for the closest shave yet, plus moisturizing aftershave to make you feel softer than ever.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

4

Boston 2nd time around because we had JT remember?

He only owns 2/3 of it. It's still not a good track record though and you're now in the prime of these guy's career, something should have clicked by now.

Outside of questionably not playing Robertson, Sandin or most importantly Liljegren, I am not sure Keefe really is to blame too much.

I don't think Kyle gave him the pieces to succeed. The powerplay was atrocious, I will give you that. Not sure who that falls on.