Confirmed with Link: Shanahan, Dubas, Keefe all staying

[Clark4Ever]

Most number of consecutive 1st round exits in sports history bub.

3 with Dubas as GM. Still not a good track record, but he also shouldn't be blamed for the failures of his predecessors.

 

[Gary Nylund]

all those teams have gotten past the first round

Thank you for that deep analysis. Is that why you think teams are trading valuable future assets, to win one round?

My point was that despite trading away some futures, we haven't traded away as much as our main competition and we are thus well positioned for the future. My point stands.

 

[pcruz]

We can agree that Toronto did enough on the ice to eliminate Tampa.

The 5 on 3 in game 6.
The pick in game 7.
The general imbalance in penalties.
The amazing saves by Vasi that kept giving more chances to Tampa.

That same team we took to the honest brink just humiliated the Panthers.
I'll be shocked if the series is longer than 5.
Meaning Toronto has more than sufficient talent to make it at least to the East final this year if not for some really unfortunate events and our power play just evaporating.

It's not always doom and gloom people.

 

[Nineteen67]

You said we have no idea who will fill key positions next year. You really have idea who our key forwards and Dmen will be?

I guess you could start by having a look here Toronto Maple Leafs Salary Cap, Draft Picks, and Player Contracts - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

I hope that helps.

That’s exactly what I used. As you can see there’s a lot of work to fill positions and only 7.85 million available.

 

[Enniskillen]

We're one one more Petan/Malgin/Kerfoot deal away from "closing" in 2023. I can just feel it.


Apologies in advance for my twisted imagination:

How about a humiliating 1st round loss to a re-emergent Montreal team in the 1st round of the 2023 playoffs?

Oh man, that would be something. Toronto would riot in a way canucks have never imagined.

3 with Dubas as GM. Still not a good track record, but he also shouldn't be blamed for the failures of his predecessors.

Same loser core though .

 

[Nineteen67]

He’s just had Liljegren and Sandjn graduate to provide ELC value. Robertson had a chance going into next year as well. After that Knies could step in later next year.

And If Robertson is still not ready, then how many minor leaguers can step in and fill important roles next year? Maybe 0, leaving them looking outside the organization with very little cap dollars available.

It all goes back to jumping the gun and not rebuilding properly.

 

[capfit9]

Thank you for that deep analysis. Is that why you think teams are trading valuable future assets, to win one round?

My point was that despite trading away some futures, we haven't traded away as much as our main competition and we are thus well positioned for the future. My point stands.

trading away less of your future vs the competition somehow makes the failure more palatable ?

 

[notbias]

And If Robertson is still not ready, then how many minor leaguers can step in and fill important roles next year? Maybe 0, leaving them looking outside the organization with very little cap dollars available.

It all goes back to jumping the gun and not rebuilding properly.

We have a bunch of ELCs who are ready or just about ready to make the jump.

Also, what important roles need to be filled outside of goal?

 

[keonsbitterness]

And we "The sky is falling" crowd called every single 1st round playoff loss. (This most recent one setting a North American sports record for most consecutive do or die losses in a row)

What's your point?

That I'm a bloody genius, obviously.

 

[pcruz]

And If Robertson is still not ready, then how many minor leaguers can step in and fill important roles next year? Maybe 0, leaving them looking outside the organization with very little cap dollars available.

It all goes back to jumping the gun and not rebuilding properly.

If Robertson is still not ready, then we have more argument for why making trades for picks is less risky.

How many recent draft picks (8 years to now) have actually made it to the Leafs, outside of the top 8 picks?

Since the 2012 Draft, we have had a total of 6 players who have actually stepped in and played for the Leafs.
Verhaeghe was also drafted by Toronto, but he's in Florida now.
Durzi and Grundstrom also broke into the Kings lineup.

That's 6 (9 if you count Verhaeghe, Durzi and Grundstrom) out of 70 players drafted over these past 10 years, outside of the top 8, that have actually gone on to represent the Leafs (or NHL teams)
I'm not counting the guys with a cup of coffee in the NHL - Robertson, Scott, Abruzzese, etc.

For people freaking out about Dubas mortgaging the future, it's not quite as bad as you think when you delve into the Leafs drafts for the past decade.

 

[colchar]

Zeke of course happy and can tell us next season how great we are because to some results don't matter but stats do.

Sadly, that applies to Kyle Dubious as well.

Honestly, I think Leafs fans are just trying to manufacture some Kawhi-type equivalent to scare themselves. The Kings need to spend a lot of money to be an attractive market over the next two years and cap will get chewed up in the mean time. If Matthews' career goal is to live in Los Angeles first and foremost, you can't blame a guy for that. But if he wants to be a Steve Yzerman type franchise player with the storyline and legacy, he's in the right place.

A legacy of never getting out of the first round.............

 

[Blanche Blanche]

Complacency is king in Toronto. They'll make rivers of money without having to care what the end result is. Fans will still sell out home games, merchandise sales will be through the roof. It's little motivation to do anything but status quo when it won't impact their bottom line that much.

It's the sad reality of being a Leafs fan, where complacency is absolutely king.

Can’t wait for fans to not show up. It has reached that point for us I believe.

Videos of jerseys burned. Crapped on.
Worst sales in decades will be the headlines.

I’m between wanting that for a new culture of hockey or we shake up the core 4 to really push.

Or they lied and Keefe is removed suddenly.

One more year of this and a generation of hockey kids will be deterred. Nvm GTA talent, it’s gonna be the west coast for Canada.

Jesus…

 

[ECanuck]

Can’t wait for fans to not show up. It has reached that point for us I believe.

Videos of jerseys burned. Crapped on.
Worst sales in decades will be the headlines.

I’m between wanting that for a new culture of hockey or we shake up the core 4 to really push.

Or they lied and Keefe is removed suddenly.

One more year of this and a generation of hockey kids will be deterred. Nvm GTA talent, it’s gonna be the west coast for Canada.

Jesus…

Those Florida and Arizona kids will pick up the slack.

 

[Lemontree]

3 with Dubas as GM. Still not a good track record, but he also shouldn't be blamed for the failures of his predecessors.

Kyle Dubas was announced as the 17 GM in Leafs history on May 11, 2018. Dubas is officially the GM for the 1st round exits of 2019, 2020, 2021 and 2022. All 4 of these after the playoff learning experience of 2017 vs Washington and 2018 vs Boston.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

We can agree that Toronto did enough on the ice to eliminate Tampa.

Weird how they didn't advance to the second round then.

 

[Stephen]

and i'll be blunt. if Matthews put the team on his back, and was no doubt about it the guy in the playoffs - then sure I can see this argument fully. but he wasn't. Fairness he was injured for one playoffs [but you know my stance on that - if you are on the ice, it doesn't matter]. Matthews for a few series was part of the issue of why we lost just like everything else.

So if after his deal is up he wants to go to somewhere else, because he wants to win, or it's easier - then fine. go play somewhere where it's easier and you might win. and I won't shed a tear because I don't want people who don't want to be here. If you want to win, you be part of the solution and leave no doubt in people's minds that you did everything you could to do so. I can safely say that I don't think Matthew did that ever. I mean he'll say he did they all do bu can you say he did?

Quite frankly, I'll use Kessel as an example. alllll the issues I had with him. never once did I complain about how he performed in the playoffs. ever. even when he was injured, Phil found a way to generate offense. (I think if i recall correctly he's still a PPG playoff performer? or he was when he won the cups). And even when it was toxic soup here - he still didn't want to leave Toronto.

again the goal is to win the cup. I never once heard rumours of Ovechkin getting frustrated and wanted to leave because all they kept doing was meet Pittsburgh and lose every time the faced them. it's no more progress to keep making it to the 2nd round (or being able to get to the third) and no go anywhere past that - and making the 1st and losing because the goal is to win the cup. almost every time washington lost - they lost as division champs, presidents cup winners, the whole nine yards. making progress wasn't really on their agenda. and Ovie stayed because he wanted to win there. If matthews doesn't want to do that that's on him.

To be fair to Matthews, I'm not even really sure where the idea comes from that he's ready to bail on the Leafs if the going gets tough, or wants to go home to Arizona, or find brighter lights somewhere else other than they're media points that Brian Burke, Nick Kypreos have expressed every now and again. I agree with you though. His reputation is tied to his ability to be a solution and he has a special platform in Toronto to achieve that. Like you said, maybe he leaves, but if he's doing it to find a softer route somewhere, he's not going to be Ovi or Yzerman as a franchise player who persevered.

Just seems like Toronto is always obsessed with the GTA homecoming in hockey, got burned on it the one time Kawhi left for Los Angeles so obviously the best player we've had in a long while is constantly eyeing the exit.

 

[Kurtz]

I don't understand why Dubas is willing to tie his entire future in the NHL by gambling on Keefe one more time. He's been given a magnificent gift from old man Lou - a top 3 coach in the NHL suddenly available and looking for a job...and he doesn't even give him an interview. In fact, I don't think that he's interviewed a single coach in his entire tenure here.

 

[Stephen]

If we lose again in the 1st round, I can't blame the guy, all I am saying.

I don't think he would be blamed, but to use a hypothetical, if Steve Yzerman walked out on Detroit because it was simply way too hard and he went to Colorado and won on Joe Sakic's team, I don't think he would have been remembered the same way as the legend that he was. Even worse, if he went somewhere else and they didn't win...

 

[Stephen]

I don't understand why Dubas is willing to tie his entire future in the NHL by gambling on Keefe one more time. He's been given a magnificent gift from old man Lou - a top 3 coach in the NHL suddenly available and looking for a job...and he doesn't even give him an interview. In fact, I don't think that he's interviewed a single coach in his entire tenure here.

The way the Leafs are so ride or die at the management and player level is kind of unusual and I wouldn't mind taking a look at Trotz. But I don't know if it's typical for an NHL team to interview coaches when they have one under contract...

 

[pcruz]

To be fair to Matthews, I'm not even really sure where the idea comes from that he's ready to bail on the Leafs if the going gets tough, or wants to go home to Arizona, or find brighter lights somewhere else other than they're media points that Brian Burke, Nick Kypreos have expressed every now and again. I agree with you though. His reputation is tied to his ability to be a solution and he has a special platform in Toronto to achieve that. Like you said, maybe he leaves, but if he's doing it to find a softer route somewhere, he's not going to be Ovi or Yzerman as a franchise player who persevered.

Just seems like Toronto is always obsessed with the GTA homecoming in hockey, got burned on it the one time Kawhi left for Los Angeles so obviously the best player we've had in a long while is constantly eyeing the exit.

Haven't Leafs fans learned how dumb it is to tear into their best players recently?

Kessel was torn to shreds as a loser, and soft, and didn't care enough, yadda yadda.
Won 2 cups, deserved the Conn Smyth and then brought the Cup to Toronto for the day.

Bozak, same thing.


Matthews is not even in the book, never mind the page, and even less so the list, of problems with this team.
The beer and hot dog prices are a bigger problem than Matthews for heaven's sake.

The team lost this year to a whole bunch of little things, not any one major thing.
It's akin to dying of a thousand paper cuts. None of them are threatening on their own, but with enough of them some damage is made.

Officiating, bad starts, a bad goal here or there, soft play here and there, too hard a play here and there, lazy play here, overskating the puck, bad bounce, missed call, great save the other way, defensive miscue, face off lost, over aggressive here....

Small plays that accumulated over the series.
Poor officials didn't help.
Phantom calls really hurt.
Power play going ice cold hurt.
A couple of bad bounces on the power play and the puck bounced over the sticks of Nylander and Matthews leading to zone exit.

Just petty things all series long.


We play that series again now and we likely win.

Play it 100 times and we win 50 or maybe more (55).

Toronto was certainly not inferior to Tampa. Our best players really outplayed their best except Hedman and Vasi.

Are people forgetting Tampa has won it 2 times running now?

We're not facing Binghamton here.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Yeah that's nice .......I prefer this accomplishment.

Poor Larry Hillman. Best Leafs d-man of the playoffs but that idiot Imlach screwed him over again.

Can’t wait for fans to not show up. It has reached that point for us I believe.

Videos of jerseys burned. Crapped on.
Worst sales in decades will be the headlines.

I’m between wanting that for a new culture of hockey or we shake up the core 4 to really push.

Or they lied and Keefe is removed suddenly.

One more year of this and a generation of hockey kids will be deterred. Nvm GTA talent, it’s gonna be the west coast for Canada.

Jesus…

Who is not showing up? There are thousands on the waiting list for seasons, and the renewal percentage every year is always in the high 90s.

 

[Stephen]

Haven't Leafs fans learned how dumb it is to tear into their best players recently?

Kessel was torn to shreds as a loser, and soft, and didn't care enough, yadda yadda.
Won 2 cups, deserved the Conn Smyth and then brought the Cup to Toronto for the day.

Bozak, same thing.


Matthews is not even in the book, never mind the page, and even less so the list, of problems with this team.
The beer and hot dog prices are a bigger problem than Matthews for heaven's sake.

The team lost this year to a whole bunch of little things, not any one major thing.
It's akin to dying of a thousand paper cuts. None of them are threatening on their own, but with enough of them some damage is made.

Officiating, bad starts, a bad goal here or there, soft play here and there, too hard a play here and there, lazy play here, overskating the puck, bad bounce, missed call, great save the other way, defensive miscue, face off lost, over aggressive here....

Small plays that accumulated over the series.
Poor officials didn't help.
Phantom calls really hurt.
Power play going ice cold hurt.
A couple of bad bounces on the power play and the puck bounced over the sticks of Nylander and Matthews leading to zone exit.

Just petty things all series long.


We play that series again now and we likely win.

Play it 100 times and we win 50 or maybe more (55).

Toronto was certainly not inferior to Tampa. Our best players really outplayed their best except Hedman and Vasi.

Are people forgetting Tampa has won it 2 times running now?

We're not facing Binghamton here.

I don't think anyone is blaming Matthews. Ideally he would have come out and put up a hat trick to counter Future Rocket Winner Nick Paul, but every single Leaf and Lightning star player was also offensively neutralized in that game in terms of scoring.

 

[pcruz]

Weird how they didn't advance to the second round then.

Yes, shit happens.
Life isn't fair, and what should happen doesn't always happen.

What are the chances a player scores on a goalie, from 180 feet away?
Almost 0.
Yet Toskala let one of those in when he came here.

Weird how he didn't stop the puck when every single sign and experience and rational thought is that it is a routine save that should maybe not be registered as a shot on net.
But it went in.

Because sometimes stuff just happens.

Gaudreau scored a really bad goal in game 7. It should have been stopped.
Calgary missed a million good chances and shots, but scored on a really low percentage shot.

That night Gaudreau was a hero, but if the puck misses the net and Dallas scores, he is a donkey taking such a bad shot that has a high chance of bouncing off the glass and exiting the zone for a rush against.

A team and a person can get bad results despite doing the right things.
The inverse is true. You can succeed at times, despite doing the wrong things.

Tampa just wiped the floor with Florida. Chances are high Toronto would have as well.

Montreal lost 3 games to Toronto last year, and comfortably should have been swept, or lost in 5. Bad giveaways and bad goal in 2 overtime periods while Price was standing on his head and it's a game 7!
Montreal went on to lose 2 or less games the next 2 series.

If anything, this team needs to trust itself more. I commented at the start of the 3rd period game 6 that Toronto was playing suicidal hockey in trying to hold a lead. Their game is pressure and speed.
Winning 3-2 is bad, go for 2 or 3 more and blow them out!!

That was what made Toronto good all year, and in game 6, they went to a defensive style that doesn't suit the players at all.

Whoever made that call needs a kick in the face.

Now is Trotz the solution for this team? No, his style clashes terribly with our players who are playing well.

 

[pcruz]

I don't think anyone is blaming Matthews. Ideally he would have come out and put up a hat trick to counter Future Rocket Winner Nick Paul, but every single Leaf and Lightning star player was also offensively neutralized in that game in terms of scoring.

The rumblings are starting .

I've been here long enough to recognize them.

Our star players outplayed Tampa's star players comfortably.
Perry, Paul, Colton, et al were the difference makers over Kerfoot, Engvall, Mikheyev, etc.

They are not the reason we lost.
Keefe coached well enough. Not Jack Adam's level, but nothing glaring either.
Special teams coach needed to wake up in March when things went south.

Other than that, it was a cumulative thing and the odds.....

 

[leafsfan5]

We can agree that Toronto did enough on the ice to eliminate Tampa.

The 5 on 3 in game 6.
The pick in game 7.
The general imbalance in penalties.
The amazing saves by Vasi that kept giving more chances to Tampa.

That same team we took to the honest brink just humiliated the Panthers.
I'll be shocked if the series is longer than 5.
Meaning Toronto has more than sufficient talent to make it at least to the East final this year if not for some really unfortunate events and our power play just evaporating.

It's not always doom and gloom people.

They didn't do enough because they didn't eliminate Tampa