Confirmed with Link: Shanahan, Dubas, Keefe all staying

[Nylanderthal]

Bishop is never going to play another NHL game, he had a whole retirement pressser. Buffalo and Ottawa are still garbage teams and are at least 3-4 years away from having an impact. Do you realistically see those teams taking a top 3 spot from Toronto, Tampa, Florida or Boston? No.

On top of that Boston is going to be missing pretty much every impact player they have for 6 months plus to start the season. Bergeron is likely retiring as well. They’re going to fall off a cliff (watch them win the Bedard lotto) the only club I see maybe putting it together is Detroit and that because Stevie Y is doing good work over there and while they’re still a few years away from being ultra competitive I think they’ll be better than the rest of the bottom of the division

 

[Nylanderthal]

We obviously didn't plan for the cap to be at 83/85 million so no we didn't plan on it.

Sure I guess we can get rid of half our D to pay them for a year until JT comes off the books

Willy going to get 9/10
AM 13/16
Mitch 11/12 ( he should be getting a reduction but whatever).

We need to get out of the 3x10 mil a year cycle of forwards. We cannot afford to give willy what he wants and win a cup

That’s not the same thing as what I said which is planning the expiring deals on the club to work out in a way to create room for needed raises.
Also brodie and Muzzin will be well past their primes by then and I’m sure expected internal growth of guys like sandin and liljegren while being different “types” of players should be expected to take on bigger roles by then. Not to mention you’re talking about 10.625m in cap space between the two of them, you’re not going to need all of that to extend Matthews and nylander, only a portion of it, so you can still replace them with 3-4m guys (maybe they stay at those reduced rates maybe not, maybe you sign one 6m guy and a 2m guy) the point is there’s money freeing up at the correct times to not have to lose anyone because of a “cap crunch” no matter how many chicken Little’s want to proclaim the sky is falling

 

[francis246]

Unless we win the cup or make a 3 round run it's a lose lose that's why it should have been done this year so the new gm can prep for the Auston/willy off season

Lol you’re not gonna go from winning no rounds to all of a sudden winning 3 rounds or a cup. The leafs and management team need to set realistic goals and build on it in the moment as they achieve it. First goal is to get back to the dance next year, once that’s locked in, the immediate and most pressing goal I would set if I was Keefe is to win round one in 6 games or less. Set the urgency for the group and keep hounding it they need to win a series early and avoid a game 7. Once the win that round, let’s get another.

Obviously the goal is to win the cup but you need to goal set in increments.

You might be asking how would I know any of this? Been in high performance sports all my life as an athlete and now I’m a coach. Well I’m a nationally certified coach in another sports organization in Canada (not hockey). Been currently coach with that sports organizations team Ontario program & working up to the Junior national team hopefully soon.

It’s mainly a mindset problem with these guys. They need to get out of this relaxed habit they fall into when they are up in a series. They love playing from behind, it’s almost as if being up is boring to them.

 

[egd27]

People are more concerned about who is on the team vs. how the team does.

Could be that some people are so ecstatic about Matthew's Rockets and potential Hart, because they're about the only somewhat significant trophies this franchise has won in 50+ years.

 

[egd27]

But another first-round exit, I don't think will be accepted IMO.

I thought that was the sentiment after CBJ, and again after the Habs. Yet here we are again.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Prefacing this post with the statement that I respect Kyle Dubas as a person, and find it quite impressive that he's risen to such a professional position so relatively early in his life.

However, things I don't like about Dubas:



2. He seems vulnerable to outside pressure, again a sign of him lacking a hard-won philosophy on team success, which he would commit to fully. He tries to appease too many philosophies: a little bit of toughness, a little bit of mentorship, a little bit of grinding, a little bit of speed, a little bit of everything. I still have issues discerning our team identity at key moments; what are we? A good offensive team with a bottom 6 that can't score in the crunch. A good defensive team with mediocre goaltending. A fast team with an ancient fourth line. When I watch Pittsburgh, I see a clear identity: fast, fast, fast. St. Louis: balance, balance, balance. Tampa Bay: a skilled team that can grind with the best of them. Colorado: an offensive dynamo, with offence spread throughout the lineup. Good luck shutting them out in an elimination game. An identity holds a team together through obstacles, while we seem to fall apart in the face of obstacles. An identity comes from a singular vision rather than a Frankenstein collection of different visions.

This is kind of like the store in the strip mall that is a combination of Dry cleaner/Variety store/Video Rental/Submarine Shop.

You don't do anything well when you try to do all of them at the same time.

 

[rocketman588]

Lol you’re not gonna go from winning no rounds to all of a sudden winning 3 rounds or a cup. The leafs and management team need to set realistic goals and build on it in the moment as they achieve it. First goal is to get back to the dance next year, once that’s locked in, the immediate and most pressing goal I would set if I was Keefe is to win round one in 6 games or less. Set the urgency for the group and keep hounding it they need to win a series early and avoid a game 7. Once the win that round, let’s get another.

Obviously the goal is to win the cup but you need to goal set in increments.

You might be asking how would I know any of this? Been in high performance sports all my life as an athlete and now I’m a coach. Well I’m a nationally certified coach in another sports organization in Canada (not hockey). Been currently coach with that sports organizations team Ontario program & working up to the Junior national team hopefully soon.

It’s mainly a mindset problem with these guys. They need to get out of this relaxed habit they fall into when they are up in a series. They love playing from behind, it’s almost as if being up is boring to them.

Well the issue with not winning a round is that we haven't been able to do shit incrementally.

It's year 5 throwing a parade after one round win is a joke.

My expectation is two round wins that shouldn't be that difficult for "the second best team in hockey" as some are trying to call us on this board right now

 

[Leaf Fans]

Well the issue with not winning a round is that we haven't been able to do shit incrementally.

It's year 5 throwing a parade after one round win is a joke.

My expectation is two round wins that shouldn't be that difficult for "the second best team in hockey" as some are trying to call us on this board right now

Why do you keep attending parades after first round losses?

 

[rocketman588]

That’s not the same thing as what I said which is planning the expiring deals on the club to work out in a way to create room for needed raises.
Also brodie and Muzzin will be well past their primes by then and I’m sure expected internal growth of guys like sandin and liljegren while being different “types” of players should be expected to take on bigger roles by then. Not to mention you’re talking about 10.625m in cap space between the two of them, you’re not going to need all of that to extend Matthews and nylander, only a portion of it, so you can still replace them with 3-4m guys (maybe they stay at those reduced rates maybe not, maybe you sign one 6m guy and a 2m guy) the point is there’s money freeing up at the correct times to not have to lose anyone because of a “cap crunch” no matter how many chicken Little’s want to proclaim the sky is falling

Ok cool let's say the cap is at 85 year one 86 year two

Year one Matthews takes us for 13/14
Willy gets 9/10

Marner and JT still in the books

Reilly still at 7.5

That's 55.5/57.5on 5 players. Your proposal is to get rid of or re-sign the two dmen at 3/4 that's probably a number they take or the number you're going to need to pay to replace. So they're at 6 for 71/73

You have 7 players signed on a 20 man roster with 22/4 mil left. How is that not a cap crunch year one.

Year 2 JT comes off the books finally

AM 13/4
Willy 9/10
Two D at a conservative 6 total
Mitch isn't taking less then 12 once we get to this point.
We can resign JT for 5/6 conservatively. It'll probably cost more to replace but we'll go with 5/6

So you're going to have
41.5/43 mil on 4 players 3 FWs plus Reilly
Then say 11/12 on the other 3
That's 52.5/55 mil on your top 6 so over 30 to play with

Now the second is doable. However there a probability that the 3 are washed at that point in which you're then replacing two middle 4 D and your second Center in an increased cap.

We do not have any defensive minded D men in the system right now. Your looking at 5 mil each min to replace

Knies can possibly slot into the 2C. If not that's 5/8

So you're looking at possibly an extra 4/7 mil which puts us at 56.5/60 for 6 players. Knies saves us if he can play 2c however.

So we're 100% in a crunch year one and we're only not in a cap crunch year two if absolutely everything breaks our way. This obviously doesn't count the adjusted raises that everyone will want with the cap going up as well but we'll stay with his because it's a bit easier then guessing on those.

Why do you keep attending parades after first round losses?

I don't those are reserved for the MLSE board who think we're doing a good job somehow

 

[Leaf Fans]

Ok cool let's say the cap is at 85 year one 86 year two

Year one Matthews takes us for 13/14
Willy gets 9/10

Marner and JT still in the books

Reilly still at 7.5

That's 55.5/57.5on 5 players. Your proposal is to get rid of or re-sign the two dmen at 3/4 that's probably a number they take or the number you're going to need to pay to replace. So they're at 6 for 71/73

You have 7 players signed on a 20 man roster with 22/4 mil left. How is that not a cap crunch year one.

Year 2 JT comes off the books finally

AM 13/4
Willy 9/10
Two D at a conservative 6 total
Mitch isn't taking less then 12 once we get to this point.
We can resign JT for 5/6 conservatively. It'll probably cost more to replace but we'll go with 5/6

So you're going to have
41.5/43 mil on 4 players 3 FWs plus Reilly
Then say 11/12 on the other 3
That's 52.5/55 mil on your top 6 so over 30 to play with

Now the second is doable. However there a probability that the 3 are washed at that point in which you're then replacing two middle 4 D and your second Center in an increased cap.

We do not have any defensive minded D men in the system right now. Your looking at 5 mil each min to replace

Knies can possibly slot into the 2C. If not that's 5/8

So you're looking at possibly an extra 4/7 mil which puts us at 56.5/60 for 6 players. Knies saves us if he can play 2c however.

So we're 100% in a crunch year one and we're only not in a cap crunch year two if absolutely everything breaks our way. This obviously doesn't count the adjusted raises that everyone will want with the cap going up as well but we'll stay with his because it's a bit easier then guessing on those.



I don't those are reserved for the MLSE board who think we're doing a good job somehow

They don't have parades after first round losses.

 

[ToneDog]

Ok cool let's say the cap is at 85 year one 86 year two

Year one Matthews takes us for 13/14
Willy gets 9/10

Marner and JT still in the books

Reilly still at 7.5

That's 55.5/57.5on 5 players. Your proposal is to get rid of or re-sign the two dmen at 3/4 that's probably a number they take or the number you're going to need to pay to replace. So they're at 6 for 71/73

You have 7 players signed on a 20 man roster with 22/4 mil left. How is that not a cap crunch year one.

Year 2 JT comes off the books finally

AM 13/4
Willy 9/10
Two D at a conservative 6 total
Mitch isn't taking less then 12 once we get to this point.
We can resign JT for 5/6 conservatively. It'll probably cost more to replace but we'll go with 5/6

So you're going to have
41.5/43 mil on 4 players 3 FWs plus Reilly
Then say 11/12 on the other 3
That's 52.5/55 mil on your top 6 so over 30 to play with

Now the second is doable. However there a probability that the 3 are washed at that point in which you're then replacing two middle 4 D and your second Center in an increased cap.

We do not have any defensive minded D men in the system right now. Your looking at 5 mil each min to replace

Knies can possibly slot into the 2C. If not that's 5/8

So you're looking at possibly an extra 4/7 mil which puts us at 56.5/60 for 6 players. Knies saves us if he can play 2c however.

So we're 100% in a crunch year one and we're only not in a cap crunch year two if absolutely everything breaks our way. This obviously doesn't count the adjusted raises that everyone will want with the cap going up as well but we'll stay with his because it's a bit easier then guessing on those.



I don't those are reserved for the MLSE board who think we're doing a good job somehow

Matty @ 14, Mitch @ 12, and Willie @ 10 = 36m/86 = 42%.

Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. You cannot get bent over by the 3 amigos again. Marner is overpaid today and can't be paid more than what he is getting today without having won anything. Sorry Willie is good but he is not worth anything close to 9/10m. He has done squat when it has counted in closeout games. In fact all 3 have.

I would move Marner and Nylander before I paid them $12 and $9. You can't have the second coming of the haves and the have nots. Matty gets paid and everybody else falls in line or is gone or we will be talking about being in cap hell again.

 

[rocketman588]

They don't have parades after first round losses.

Everyone besides you is aware that when people say this it is a sarcastic comment. Unfortunately there are a lot including those who run MLSE that are content or even excited about how our team has performed despite multiple first round exits against multiple teams.

You can't make the same mistake twice. Marner is overpaid today and can't be paid more than what he is getting today without having won anything. Sorry Willie is good but he is not worth anything close to 9/10m. He has done squat when it has counted in closeout games. In fact all 3 have.

I would move Marner and Nylander before I paid them $12 and $9. You can't have the second coming of the haves and the have nots. Matty gets paid and everybody else falls in line or is gone or we will be talking about being in cap hell again.

Yes this has been my argument and reasoning of why we should trade willy now.

Best time for value and we cannot afford to give him the contract he wants ( I guess I should have said cannot afford it and win before)

 

[ShaneFalco]

Matty @ 14, Mitch @ 12, and Willie @ 10 = 36m/86 = 42%.

Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. You cannot get bent over by the 3 amigos again. Marner is overpaid today and can't be paid more than what he is getting today without having won anything. Sorry Willie is good but he is not worth anything close to 9/10m. He has done squat when it has counted in closeout games. In fact all 3 have.

I would move Marner and Nylander before I paid them $12 and $9. You can't have the second coming of the haves and the have nots. Matty gets paid and everybody else falls in line or is gone or we will be talking about being in cap hell again.

We can and we will!

 

[Havoc]

Matty @ 14, Mitch @ 12, and Willie @ 10 = 36m/86 = 42%.

Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. You cannot get bent over by the 3 amigos again. Marner is overpaid today and can't be paid more than what he is getting today without having won anything. Sorry Willie is good but he is not worth anything close to 9/10m. He has done squat when it has counted in closeout games. In fact all 3 have.

I would move Marner and Nylander before I paid them $12 and $9. You can't have the second coming of the haves and the have nots. Matty gets paid and everybody else falls in line or is gone or we will be talking about being in cap hell again.

Nylander along with JT actually owned closeout game 6 this season. The 2 of them had the game won until the 5 on 3. In fact Nylander was league wide one of the best playoff performers for the second half of the series.

We always talk about just getting it done even if things are ugly at times. Zibanejad with his 30% xGF but 7 points in 2 games. Nylander is the last type of player we want to get rid of. He will scoop playoff points in for wins regardless how many people he pisses off in the process.

 

[socko]

Going into 2nd contracts for the core players with Dubas who completely bungled the first round is just insanity. It's a car accident that you know is coming but it hasn't happened just yet.

 

[notbias]

Knies can possibly slot into the 2C. If not that's 5/8

This sums up your knowledge about the Leafs, also why make up a bunch of numbers? Do you think Matthew's is getting 14 million? Mind posting the comparables for that?

I think Ovi/Crosby are the only ones who signed for the equivalent or more.

 

[Stamkos4life]

This sums up your knowledge about the Leafs, also why make up a bunch of numbers? Do you think Matthew's is getting 14 million? Mind posting the comparables for that?

I think Ovi/Crosby are the only ones who signed for the equivalent or more.

Matthews got 11.634 x 5 for a career high of 70 points and a Calder. Apparently he was asking for 12.5+ x 8 at the time.

5 years later, at least 2 rockets and a Hart nomination, you really think matthews isn't going to, once again, demand top dollar?

 

[mikeyz]

the immediate and most pressing goal I would set if I was Keefe is to win round one in 6 games or less. Set the urgency for the group and keep hounding it they need to win a series early and avoid a game 7. Once the win that round, let’s get another.

This is exactly what I was telling my dad earlier today. I don’t think they can win a game 7. Especially in the 1st round. I think that do or die games are in their heads right now and essentially a guaranteed loss at this point. So, if they’re going to get out of the 1st round, I think it’s going to have to be in 6 or less. I completely agree with you.

 

[rocketman588]

This sums up your knowledge about the Leafs, also why make up a bunch of numbers? Do you think Matthew's is getting 14 million? Mind posting the comparables for that?

I think Ovi/Crosby are the only ones who signed for the equivalent or more.

His at signing current cap hit% on an 85 Mil cap is 12.7 mil he's going to want at least that % and most likely more than McDavid because we are buying all of his UFA years.

14 is most likely what will be considered a discount for him.

Also you don't think he considers himself in the Ovi/Crosby realm? Get real

You're also the same poster who said Fox was overpaid when he signed with a 0.71 PPG% and a Norris so you obviously do not know what the hell you're talking about.

The numbers I posted above are very realistic and honestly might be underbids for those players

 

[mikeyz]

Matthews got 11.634 x 5 for a career high of 70 points and a Calder. Apparently he was asking for 12.5+ x 8 at the time.

5 years later, at least 2 rockets and a Hart nomination, you really think matthews isn't going to, once again, demand top dollar?

He shouldn't, especially if they can't win a playoff round, but he probably will.

 

[Stamkos4life]

Where does this thinking come from? What has Kyle Dubas done that so many people are impressed with?

He was given the keys to a speedboat......built it into a pontoon and hired "his guy" as the captain of this slow moving boat accident. "Its a shame Dubas is willing to go down with the ship"........NO, its a shame that the loyal fans who waited for years for the Leafs to do a proper rebuild......FINALLY, clued in and did a scorched earth rebuild and we waited, watched and dreamed that this would all be worth it someday is sitting here in this mess and on top of that need to hear and read over over again at how the Leafs are "doomed" if Kyle Dubas isn't around.

Its the equivalent of taking financial advice from a millionaire......without realizing he was given a billion dollars to start with.

I will never understand the bolded.

The guy inherited one of the most promising teams I have ever seen. Literally every single gm would kill to walk into the position dubas was given.

The dubas fan boys crucified Lou for not being able to get past the 1st round in two attempts. That's despite the fact that we had just finished last place the year before.

Here we are after four consecutive 1st round loses (one qualifier) and they are still trying to tell us how amazing Kyle is.

The delusion just keeps getting worse after each failure.

 

[ToneDog]

Matthews got 11.634 x 5 for a career high of 70 points and a Calder. Apparently he was asking for 12.5+ x 8 at the time.

5 years later, at least 2 rockets and a Hart nomination, you really think matthews isn't going to, once again, demand top dollar?

C.H.%

: 14.64

If cap rises to 85m that alone gives him 12.4m. Not out of the question he asks for 14x8 (16.4%).

 

[Stamkos4life]

LOL, not sure if serious. I can't be bothered to waste my time on all these individually but at the time, many of there moves were received very well by fans. The best example if perhaps Kapanen for a 1st - widely viewed as a steal for the Leafs. He's made mistakes for sure but everyone makes mistakes, a 1st for Foligno for example, I didn't like it at the time and it didn't work out well but most people here thought it was a great move - gotta go allin blah blah blah.

He made some good moves too, Dubas completely rebuilt the defence, that's a number of moves there, not going to bother listing them one by one.

Look at the roster when Dubas took over and look at the roster today, you tell me which one you prefer. And while I'm not happy with all the futures he traded away last season, I'm very happy that we haven't traded any top prospects with Dubas in charge and this season we didn't trade any first round picks as well while pretty much all the other contenders did.


Link?

Your excuse is that many of dubas' failures looked like a "great move" to his fan boys at the time of the transaction?

A good gm makes moves that benefit the team in the long term. Just because you and others admire basically every move he makes does not excuse the fact that they ended up being a failure.

Of course the team today looks better than it did in 2018. 2018 was three years after finishing last place. We are now at 7 years after finishing last place. And yet still exactly zero series wins.

It's amazing how the excuses just keep getting worse and worse each year.

 

[rocketman588]

C.H.%

: 14.64

If cap rises to 85m that alone gives him 12.4m. Not out of the question he asks for 14x8 (16.4%).

He's at least getting the mcdavid cap % of 16.67

Saying 13/14 is a pie the sky number is like saying the jets will take Mrazek Robertson and a first for helly.

We will be lucky if it's 13.5/14

 

[ToneDog]

He's at least getting the mcdavid cap % of 16.67

Saying 13/14 is a pie the sky number is like saying the jets will take Mrazek Robertson and a first for helly.

We will be lucky if it's 13.5/14

This guy does not need an 11m Marner to score 50 goals. I'd start shopping 16 and 88 and replacing them with players who can elevate their games when it counts. It Nichuskin who was banished to Russia before signing with the Avs, can do it, WTH can't any of our guys once in 6 tries ??