OT: Seventh defenseman - Jakub Kindl

[Electric Eric]

Nice little article from Kindl about his career and life. Worth a read.

Seventh defenseman - Jakub Kindl

 

[Kronwalled55]

Good read. Timing hurt his potential with the organization. When you're a 1st round pick and don't get to make a real debut in the NHL until you're 23 that's pretty uncommon and can mess with a person. But the team was good and there wasn't room... and he recognized that.

More glowing remarks about Mike Babcock which comes to no surprise.

 

[SMP17]

Guess winning does make people overlook all the bs Babcock was able to pull. Listened to a podcast yesterday with Chelios talking about him in a negative light as well. Really would like to hear from Pav, Hank, Lidstrom, on how this guy was around the team and why they never said anything. But obviously that will never happen.

 

[Henkka]

Jakub Kindl has great life.

Still married with Aferdita Dreshaj. Maybe the most beautiful + level headed woman in the world. They had a child 2 years ago.

Earned 12 million at NHL career.

Still a very nice recap, because I kind of started watching prospects starting from Zetterberg, and Kindl came on that era after him. Also was able to see more games in Finland thanks to streaming. Also all kind of stat pages developed a lot on that era 2005 -->

I know everything about his career, and how it went. This was nice to read and add some details and his real feelings on the mix.

Loved to read.

 

[Air Budd Dwyer]

Guess winning does make people overlook all the bs Babcock was able to pull. Listened to a podcast yesterday with Chelios talking about him in a negative light as well. Really would like to hear from Pav, Hank, Lidstrom, on how this guy was around the team and why they never said anything. But obviously that will never happen.

I remember reading an article years ago about Babcock’s first year in Detroit. Yzerman and Shanahan were apparently super put off by Babcock’s approach, wanting to run the team too hard or something. I wish I could find the article.

 

[drw13]

Ken Holland drafted a guy in the first round that they never even talked to? Did I read that right? Seems kind of important

 

[Ricelund]

I remember reading an article years ago about Babcock’s first year in Detroit. Yzerman and Shanahan were apparently super put off by Babcock’s approach, wanting to run the team too hard or something. I wish I could find the article.

Yeah, it's strange that Yzerman and Shanahan went on to hire Babcock elsewhere after experiencing his coaching style first hand.

 

[Henkka]

Ken Holland drafted a guy in the first round that they never even talked to? Did I read that right? Seems kind of important

Yeah, Jim Nill did draft this year before draft 3rd ranked player, who did fall to 19th overall on draft day.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Yeah, Jim Nill did draft this year before draft 3rd ranked player, who did fall to 19th overall on draft day.

Nothing against Kindl personally but he was such a disappointing player given how much people hyped him when he first joined the Wings. He played small for his size and was often afraid go into corners or take a hit to make a play.

 

[jaster]

Nice little article from Kindl about his career and life. Worth a read.

Seventh defenseman - Jakub Kindl

Real good read. Any idea when this was written? He mentions being 34, and he's 36 now, so I presume this is two years ago.

Still married with Aferdita Dreshaj. Maybe the most beautiful + level headed woman in the world.

You should start a poll.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Good read. Timing hurt his potential with the organization. When you're a 1st round pick and don't get to make a real debut in the NHL until you're 23 that's pretty uncommon and can mess with a person. But the team was good and there wasn't room... and he recognized that.

More glowing remarks about Mike Babcock which comes to no surprise.

Timing isn't what hurt his potential. The poor scouting that made him a 1st round pick and his lack of brains and talent hurt his potential. Kindl was a bad player with a panic threshold only higher than Dennis Cholowski.

He seems like a decent guy but let's not sugar coat his poor career as anything other than it was; a lack of NHL talent.

Yeah, it's strange that Yzerman and Shanahan went on to hire Babcock elsewhere after experiencing his coaching style first hand.

Maybe around Yzerman and Shanahan he was different? There was discussion on that Chiclets podcast about Babcock that he was very careful about who he displayed bad behavior around.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Good read, thanks for sharing!

 

[Frk It]

I always thought that Babcock did a really poor job of developing him as a player. I have never seeen a coach give a young player a shorter leash than what Babcock gave Kindl. He made one mistake and hew as on the bench the rest of the game. With everything that has come to light with Babcock lately, I definitely think he had an axe to grind with Kindl.. which is too bad.

Nothing against Kindl personally but he was such a disappointing player given how much people hyped him when he first joined the Wings. He played small for his size and was often afraid go into corners or take a hit to make a play.

Who would have succeeded being developed the way he was?

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I always thought that Babcock did a really poor job of developing him as a player. I have never seeen a coach give a young player a shorter leash than what Babcock gave Kindl. He made one mistake and hew as on the bench the rest of the game. With everything that has come to light with Babcock lately, I definitely think he had an axe to grind with Kindl.. which is too bad.


Who would have succeeded being developed the way he was?

I know it's a great time to blame everything on Babcock, but as @ogee stated, it was a lack of NHL talent.

Timing isn't what hurt his potential. The poor scouting that made him a 1st round pick and his lack of brains and talent hurt his potential. Kindl was a bad player with a panic threshold only higher than Dennis Cholowski.

He seems like a decent guy but let's not sugar coat his poor career as anything other than it was; a lack of NHL talent.



Maybe around Yzerman and Shanahan he was different? There was discussion on that Chiclets podcast about Babcock that he was very careful about who he displayed bad behavior around.

Agreed Re: Kindl.

As for Yzerman and Shanahan, remember they played for Scotty Bowman for years. In terms of cruelty and mindgames from Babcock it was nothing they hadn't seen before. They're from an era where that kind of thing wasn't unusual and played for a coach who took it to the extreme.

 

[Frk It]

I know it's a great time to blame everything on Babcock, but as @ogee stated, it was a lack of NHL talent.


Agreed Re: Kindl.

As for Yzerman and Shanahan, remember they played for Scotty Bowman for years. In terms of cruelty and mindgames from Babcock it was nothing they hadn't seen before. They're from an era where that kind of thing wasn't unusual and played for a coach who took it to the extreme.

Lack of NHL talent? Kindl had a good offensive skill set. You saw it when he rushed the puck through the neutral zone or was able to walk the blue line on the power play. The guy had talent, I think that’s bullshit.

As far as the whole corners/lost battles I mean Dekeyser got manhandled physically in his own end for 500 games while proving very little offense and people liked him just fine.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I know it's a great time to blame everything on Babcock, but as @ogee stated, it was a lack of NHL talent.


Agreed Re: Kindl.

As for Yzerman and Shanahan, remember they played for Scotty Bowman for years. In terms of cruelty and mindgames from Babcock it was nothing they hadn't seen before. They're from an era where that kind of thing wasn't unusual and played for a coach who took it to the extreme.

I don't want to derail the thread but Bowman's mind games were a lot more subtle. Like, pretending he's whispering to an assistant coach but speaking loud enough for the player he's criticizing to hear every word. Bowman was also a lot more free with public praise than Babcock ever was. I even remember Bowman speaking well of Paul Coffey in a press conference. I don't recall ever reading anything about personally insulting players. And the people working at the JLA actually really liked Bowman.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Lack of NHL talent? Kindl had a good offensive skill set. You saw it when he rushed the puck through the neutral zone or was able to walk the blue line on the power play. The guy had talent, I think that’s bullshit.

As far as the whole corners/lost battles I mean Dekeyser got manhandled physically in his own end for 500 games while proving very little offense and people liked him just fine.

Kindl's "offensive talent" was smoke and mirrors. Good junior numbers in his D+1 and D+2 but after that he was very mediocre even in the AHL. His biggest talent was being a good skater but he was a heads down player who could only carry the puck when there was no pressure on him. And he is one of the softest defensemen I have ever witnessed in his own zone. Diss DeKeyser all you want for getting thrown around in the corners for 500 games, but that guy put in the effort, and even when he knew he was getting the worst of it DDK didn't hesitate to go in the corner with bigger and stronger guys. Kindl was a guy who flinched when Danny Briere was coming at him in the corner.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I don't want to derail the thread but Bowman's mind games were a lot more subtle. Like, pretending he's whispering to an assistant coach but speaking loud enough for the player he's criticizing to hear every word. Bowman was also a lot more free with public praise than Babcock ever was. I even remember Bowman speaking well of Paul Coffey in a press conference. I don't recall ever reading anything about personally insulting players. And the people working at the JLA actually really liked Bowman.

That was at the end of his career when it was the relatively kinder Bowman. There were stories about how when he first came to Detroit he was relentlessly picking on Yzerman. Yzerman never really understood why. Then at a certain point Bowman just moved on and directed his headgames at someone else. Bowman was famously cruel and known for his mindgames for years before he ever came to Detroit. There were also endless stories to him being an a-hole to strangers and arena staff.

But most importantly, Bowman won, so some of it becomes funny anecdotes. Like when Holmstrom picked number 96 and Bowman said he should pick 98 because that's the year he'll be going back to Europe. It wasn't a joke at the time. Imagine a coach now saying that to a young prospect who is excited about picking his jersey number to play in the NHL.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Lack of NHL talent? Kindl had a good offensive skill set. You saw it when he rushed the puck through the neutral zone or was able to walk the blue line on the power play. The guy had talent, I think that’s bullshit.

As far as the whole corners/lost battles I mean Dekeyser got manhandled physically in his own end for 500 games while proving very little offense and people liked him just fine.

Maybe NHL talent isn't the best way of putting it, because he did have some offensive talent. But his career high was 19 points so it's not like we're even talking about Hronek level offense. Kindl's offensive potential never really came to fruition in the NHL.

And like I said he played like he was 5'6" and 140 lbs. He would rush plays to avoid contact. He was often a mess in his own end. That's the thing, Dekeyser was better than Kindl in his own end in spite of being 20 lbs lighter and constantly being pushed around.

 

[jaster]

Kindl was a bad player with a panic threshold only higher than Dennis Cholowski.

Madison Bowey says hi

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Madison Bowey says hi

Madison Bowey's panich threshold was higher than those two. He was just dumb. He might still be an NHLer if the dude learned how to chip it off the glass instead of putting crisp passes on the tape of the opposition.

 

[jaster]

Lack of NHL talent? Kindl had a good offensive skill set. You saw it when he rushed the puck through the neutral zone or was able to walk the blue line on the power play. The guy had talent, I think that’s bullshit.

As far as the whole corners/lost battles I mean Dekeyser got manhandled physically in his own end for 500 games while proving very little offense and people liked him just fine.

Yeah. Kindl had lots of talent, weird to see people say he didn't. I always said about Kindl "all tools, no toolbox," and I hold to that, especially after reading his article. He was mentally immature (something that may have been noticed if, ya know, the Wings ever talked to him before drafting him) and was certainly in need of refining his defensive game. He really needed some strong 1-on-1 coaching to have a chance at success and he never got that. He got the opposite. He got Mike Babcock. His chances with a helpful coach may have still been slim, but his chances with Babcock were a big fat zero.

 

[jaster]

Madison Bowey's panich threshold was higher than those two. He was just dumb. He might still be an NHLer if the dude learned how to chip it off the glass instead of putting crisp passes on the tape of the opposition.

Madison Bowey is maybe the worst defenseman I've ever seen get regular minutes in the NHL. His panic threshold was rock bottom, though it did seem to exhibit more in open ice than down low below the goal line. When oppo players were within 10 yards of him, that puck would become a hand grenade and he'd either bobble it away or pass it directly to the other team like you mentioned. That dude was the epitome of low panic threshold. And yes, he was also dumb lol.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Yeah. Kindl had lots of talent, weird to see people say he didn't. I always said about Kindl "all tools, no toolbox," and I hold to that, especially after reading his article. He was mentally immature (something that may have been noticed if, ya know, the Wings ever talked to him before drafting him) and was certainly in need of refining his defensive game. He really needed some strong 1-on-1 coaching to have a chance at success and he never got that. He got the opposite. He got Mike Babcock. His chances with a helpful coach may have still been slim, but his chances with Babcock were a big fat zero.

Here's Kindl's talents.

Hard shot. Could never get it through traffic though.
Good skater. Easily knocked off balance.
Good stickhandler. Couldn't do it in traffic and was often caught looking down at the puck.
Hard passer. Not very accurate though.

Absolutely zero defensive awareness. Very little actual offensive awareness (as shown by where his pass attempts usually landed.) Soft. Not a very hard worker.

The dude sucked. And if you need THIS much of a reminder, then have a look at this singular video that I think perfectly sums up his Red Wings career.

 

[Frk It]

Maybe NHL talent isn't the best way of putting it, because he did have some offensive talent. But his career high was 19 points so it's not like we're even talking about Hronek level offense. Kindl's offensive potential never really came to fruition in the NHL.

And like I said he played like he was 5'6" and 140 lbs. He would rush plays to avoid contact. He was often a mess in his own end. That's the thing, Dekeyser was better than Kindl in his own end in spite of being 20 lbs lighter and constantly being pushed around.

Well when you bench an offensive defenseman every time they make a mistake, that’s a pretty good way to neuter their game. So no I’m not surprised he did not become a good player and am aware he never put up that many points.

Again, I think that the way his development was handled was egregious. I thought that before all this Babcock stuff came out. Now it just makes more sense. We have heard of plenty of cars now where he went out of his way to make examples of players he didn’t like.