Value of: Seth Jones to Toronto

[HC7]

Jones is 29 and Chicago is on pace to finish last again. Signed for 9.5M until he's 36.

For Leafs cap to work Chicago would have to take Brodie, Samsonov, and Reaves as a part of the deal. Only Reaves is signed beyond this year and if sent down his cap hit is 200K. With retention Hawks could likely flip Brodie to a contender for a 2nd-3rd as well.

Leafs top prospects are Minten, Cowan, and Niemela. 1st in 24 and 26. 3rds in the next 3 drafts.

Leafs get their 6'4" #1D, Hawks get out of a contract that doesn't fit their timeline while adding picks/prospects to build around Bedard.

Cap goes up enough next year that the Leafs can still re-sign Nylander.

What's the cost?

Click to read more...

 

[hurdemz]

If Chicago is willing to retain 2-3 mil (which I seriously doubt) I'd give good value back for jones. Always liked him

 

[Sweetpotato]

There would have to be retention if it's TOR which I doubt Chicago would be interested in so this is moot. Also TOR lose their starting goalie and a good defenseman, this seems like 1 step forward 2 steps back.

A move like this only makes sense if one of the big 4 are moved in another deal.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Bruh Chicago isn't gonna retain for like 7 years or whatever is left. That'd be ridiculous to commit to that dead cap into Bedard's mid-20s. It's not gonna happen, they'll ride the Jones Bus as far as it'll go and he can be the tank commander so Alex Vlasic isn't playing number 1 minutes against McDavid again.

 

[banks]

Bruh Chicago isn't gonna retain for like 7 years or whatever is left. That'd be ridiculous to commit to that dead cap into Bedard's mid-20s. It's not gonna happen, they'll ride the Jones Bus as far as it'll go and he can be the tank commander so Alex Vlasic isn't playing number 1 minutes against McDavid again.

To be fair, the OP never suggested retention on Jones. He only mentioned that they can take back Brodie (among other "dumps") and the retain on Brodie to flip him and get an asset back.

It is unlikely that Toronto could fit Jones at his full cap hit. But that is what the OP is suggesting.

Jones at full price
for
Brodie, Samsonov, Reaves, and what?

 

[WarriorofTime]

To be fair, the OP never suggested retention on Jones. He only mentioned that they can take back Brodie (among other "dumps") and the retain on Brodie to flip him and get an asset back.

It is unlikely that Toronto could fit Jones at his full cap hit. But that is what the OP is suggesting.

Jones at full price
for
Brodie, Samsonov, Reaves, and what?

Why would Toronto want Jones at full cap? His contract sucks

 

[Recipe Unlimited]

The Leafs can't really afford this, and if they really tried to make it work, they would be gutting so much else of the team, that it would kill their depth. Jones isn't good enough for that sacrifice.

 

[banks]

Why would Toronto want Jones at full cap? His contract sucks

Because in the OP they give up nothing of value on the current roster. Brodie and Reaves' contracts also suck.

I don't think Toronto would do it. They'd have to lose Nylander, and have virtually no depth, to fit in another giant contract. But I've seen worse proposals on HF. This would do wonders for the blueline, which is their biggest issue.

 

[HC7]

There would have to be retention if it's TOR which I doubt Chicago would be interested in so this is moot. Also TOR lose their starting goalie and a good defenseman, this seems like 1 step forward 2 steps back.

A move like this only makes sense if one of the big 4 are moved in another deal.

Starting G is Woll. Brodie, Samsonov, and Reaves account for 9.9M. Jones is 9.5M.

Cap is increasing to 87.7M. That will cover the Matthews, Nylander, and RFA raises. Season after next Tavares comes off the books and likely signs for half.

Realistically Leafs lose one of Bertuzzi or Domi who make 5 and 3 million respectively.

Why would Toronto want Jones at full cap? His contract sucks

Doughty supposedly sucked when LA was tanking as well, now look at him. Nobody is going to trade you a #1 D playing at an elite level. You need to take a chance. Jones is a player I would take a chance on.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Doughty supposedly sucked when LA was tanking as well, now look at him. Nobody is going to trade you a #1 D playing at an elite level. You need to take a chance. Jones is a player I would take a chance on.

I'm a bigger defender of Jones than most on the Hawks board, I'm telling you, his contract is really bad. Overpaid by about $3 million or so and a million years left on it. The cap may go up, but Jones age will also go up. Hopefully he ages well and that can more or less offset.

 

[HC7]

I'm a bigger defender of Jones than most on the Hawks board, I'm telling you, his contract is really bad. Overpaid by about $3 million or so and a million years left on it. The cap may go up, but Jones age will also go up. Hopefully he ages well and that can more or less offset.

Then the cost to obtain him shouldn't be prohibitive.

Brodie, Samsonov, and Reaves need to be a part of the deal. What else would the Leafs need to add for the majority of Hawks fans to be in favour?

 

[Sweetpotato]

Starting G is Woll. Brodie, Samsonov, and Reaves account for 9.9M. Jones is 9.5M.

Cap is increasing to 87.7M. That will cover the Matthews, Nylander, and RFA raises. Season after next Tavares comes off the books and likely signs for half.

Realistically Leafs lose one of Bertuzzi or Domi who make 5 and 3 million respectively.

Doughty supposedly sucked when LA was tanking as well, now look at him. Nobody is going to trade you a #1 D playing at an elite level. You need to take a chance. Jones is a player I would take a chance on.

1. Woll might have played more games than Samsonov this season but if I'm not mistaken Samsonov got injured this season. Woll has played like 11 games in the league before this season it would be unwise to ship out the other NHL goalie in this situation, goalies are voodoo.

2. The cap may add up in your scenario but you are proposing that the Leafs now invest like roughly ~51 mill in 5 players not counting Nylanders extension. That is not a recipe for success spending what will be 10 million per player on 6 players.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Because in the OP they give up nothing of value on the current roster. Brodie and Reaves' contracts also suck.

I don't think Toronto would do it. They'd have to lose Nylander, and have virtually no depth, to fit in another giant contract. But I've seen worse proposals on HF. This would do wonders for the blueline, which is their biggest issue.

Huh. Brodie expires after this year and Reaves is basically buriable. No matter how much you guys try and pretend Toronto is sucks and has all these bad deals, it is not true.

Jones isn't what Toronto needs anyways.

 

[MNRube]

Jones has got to be the most divisive player in the NHL. A lot of really respected people in the game swear he is still a player. Hard to judge him currently because his team is awful.

I don’t see any reason for Hawks to accept this deal. The return is underwhelming and the upside of Jones returning to form is greater than a 2/3rd pick and a forgettable goalie

 

[Mrfenn92]

Don’t see the fit for either side.

 

[LeafChief]

Jones is a good player but Leafs would need retention and Chicago would be very dumb to retain for the length of that contract (through Bedard's prime).

There's likely no deal to be made here.

 

[Rare Jewel]

No interest.


Phillips, on the other hand...

 

[Malaka]

As much as I love this for us, I won’t be token hf mainboards used car salesman here.


Seth Jones is not a #1. He won’t fix your blue line. I think his #1 capability was there before the league transition where the level of skill and baseline athleticism was lower. Training became standardized and his dominance through athleticism and his prime/peak physical state has become neutralized a bit, before any other considerations in age & decline and the knocks on him(backwards skating playing the rush lol) being exacerbated more and more

If you can manage looking through my shit posting, I’ve listed some basic stats /60 where his rankings relative to his peers for production over the last year or two are somewhere in the top 60 or even that of a #3 and top 4 on the PP. As it stands, he won’t hurt your team cap hit aside but he isn’t going to be a game breaking talent #1D like Makar, or solidify things in total like Pietrangelo on Vegas.

Also, an aside and probable projection I’m speculating his way: I really don’t know if it’s a personality fault or a reflection of his disdain for the state the hawks are in prior to signing expecting be a contender, but his play seems to have a selfish element or rather his ego is resisting change/writing on the wall where he plays to be “the guy” when he’s not. E.g. He can’t run a f***ing PP, and it feels like on many occasion he refuses to pass to bedard. Might be because he thinks bedard is a puck hog, or simply because he doesn’t want to force a play toward him when the opposition is expecting. But yeah. Whatever. I’d be salty too also when a 19 year old in Korchinski is getting looks over me on the PP as well. I can’t imagine how toxic it might get, if my estimation of an ego issue is correct, with his arrival in Toronto.

P.s. buddy has an NMC and won’t move to Canada I expect. Dallas, Philadelphia, and Denver were the other options.

 

[TLEH]

Brain dead player relying on physical tools.. never ages well.

 

[Malaka]

Brain dead player relying on physical tools.. never ages well.

Wanted to add a blurb about this. Idk if it’s his hockey IQ necessarily or his processing speed but he really does rely on athleticism to overcome his faults like that, and what made him have the potential to be a #1 again is neutralized by a league that’s talent/skill has risen and training standardized