Low Effort GDT Sens v Buffalo tonight

[Nac Mac Feegle]

offensively he seems to think he is a cerebral player or something.

its so weird. like he thinks he's kucherov ,but he has none of the hockey iq.

Boucher has pretty decent hockey IQ, he just doesn't have the hands or anticipation to get the most out of it. He can see plays are developing, and has a decant knack to being in good sniping areas, but the rest of the puzzle just isn't there for him.

 

[SensontheRush]

Disappointed with Ostapchuk's game, he needed to show more as a guy looking to crack the team

Pinto was not great, I get he's a vet and has little to play for but you got to set the tone for the kids.

Adisson, Matinpalo, Roos, and Sebrango can go to the AHL now, they aren't getting a roster spot the way they've played

Roos actually wasn't that bad IMO. He was a step above defensively relative to the other guys you listed. Stopped a sure goal in this BUF game, and had some good moments against TOR. Not one of our top 7-8D though.

 

[Blotto71]

Anyone know what time cut-o'clock is?

 

[Micklebot]

Roos actually wasn't that bad IMO. He was a step above defensively relative to the other guys you listed. Stopped a sure goal in this BUF game, and had some good moments against TOR. Not one of our top 7-8D though.

Low bar, he also iced the puck with no pressure leading to the tying goal, either way, he's back in the AHL. If we get into injury troubles, he's probably the first LD callup ahead of Sebrango or Davies, want nothing to do with Adisson though. He might be a good AHL option but at the NHL level he's got a lot of work to do.

 

[Micklebot]

Anyone know what time cut-o'clock is?

They just started practice, so maybe after that?

 

[Xspyrit]

I understand, but you seem to be overlooking my point. The Sabres should be the last team to emulate for a rebuild strategy. They've been in a perpetual state of rebuilding since 2012 without making the playoffs. It appears they lack a clear direction in their approach.

I guess I didn't express myself correctly. I'm not saying "copy the Sabres" but was saying that stockpiling picks and prospects is the way to go during a rebuild and that is what the Sabres have been doing the last few years. I don't have enough insight about the Sabres to explain why their rebuild has failed before but what they have been doing recently seems a lot more sustainable/credible. That part I have no idea but stockpiling talent is a part they have been doing correctly and the only part I would be "qualified" enough to give an opinion. For the rest, I don't know.

You still stuck on Dorion Xspyrit? You really need to turn the page and move on. We are not going back we are moving forward!

I'm sorry to tell you that but you're far from hearing the last of Dorion... We still have a 1st to forfeit for heaven's sake... He will be on the radio or something too

The kind of damage he did as a GM is almost ever lasting. Think about Chara, Hossa... Dorion did worse than Muckler, much worse.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I guess I didn't express myself correctly. I'm not saying "copy the Sabres" but was saying that stockpiling picks and prospects is the way to go during a rebuild and that is what the Sabres have been doing the last few years. I don't have enough insight about the Sabres to explain why their rebuild has failed before but what they have been doing recently seems a lot more sustainable/credible. That part I have no idea but stockpiling talent is a part they have been doing correctly and the only part I would be "qualified" enough to give an opinion. For the rest, I don't know.



I'm sorry to tell you that but you're far from hearing the last of Dorion... We still have a 1st to forfeit for heaven's sake... He will be on the radio or something too

The kind of damage he did as a GM is almost ever lasting. Think about Chara, Hossa... Dorion did worse than Muckler, much worse.

Chara and Hossa were both Muckler, but Ya Dorian wasn’t good,

 

[Micklebot]

I guess I didn't express myself correctly. I'm not saying "copy the Sabres" but was saying that stockpiling picks and prospects is the way to go during a rebuild and that is what the Sabres have been doing the last few years. I don't have enough insight about the Sabres to explain why their rebuild has failed before but what they have been doing recently seems a lot more sustainable/credible. That part I have no idea but stockpiling talent is a part they have been doing correctly and the only part I would be "qualified" enough to give an opinion. For the rest, I don't know.

The difference between us and them in terms of stock pilling picks is essentially the Chychrun and DBC trades. Had those trades been more targeted towards our actual needs, so for example, maybe Fiala with an extension, and Marino, then we'd have been fine (cap might be an issue, could probably only make one of those trades), assuming we still found a way to get Ullmark

The issue was less about trading the picks, and more about not trading them for the right pieces.
.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Chara and Hossa were both Muckler, but Ya Dorian wasn’t good,
But at least get the facts right.

That looks to be exactly what they said, no? Muckler is named right after Chara and Hossa used as examples.

 

[Golden_Jet]

That looks to be exactly what they said, no? Muckler is named right after Chara and Hossa used as examples.

That’s not clear really with the ….Dorion
I won’t lose sleep over it, that’s for sure.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

That’s not clear really with the ….Dorion
I think you could interpret that both ways.

I guess I would assume anyone reading this forum would have the common sense to know what they meant, especially given a long Murray tenure separating them. I see what you mean with the writing structure, but I can't help but thinking anyone actually confusing that is asleep at the wheel or a newb to the Sens.

 

[Ice-Tray]

You must have been in a jet to do that? Do you own your own jet?

In some places you simply walk across the street

 

[Hale The Villain]

Roos actually wasn't that bad IMO. He was a step above defensively relative to the other guys you listed. Stopped a sure goal in this BUF game, and had some good moments against TOR. Not one of our top 7-8D though.

Have to disagree here. Thought he looked pretty terrible in both pre-season games he's played.

If he's our best LD in Belleville, god help us. Not NHL material at all.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

So, I did a quick and dirty Expected return calculation for our drafting from 2016 to present, and we should have expected about 9-10 NHL players with our picks. I think we're on pace for about that, maybe a touch behind.

Our drafting has been about average, nothing to write home about, but not something for heads to roll over either. What killed us is trading off 4oa, 7oa, 12oa, 39oa, 49oa, and 72oa, that should have likely netted us another 2-3 legit players (if Duchene, Chychrun and DBC worked out and extended, the value of the trades were fine, but not for one or two years of each). The GM is gone, and we have someone who seems like he's got a plan instead of reacting. Things should improve.

All that said, I'd still like to improve on our scouting and be above average. Maybe Jokiharju or Hague instead of Bowers, K'andre Miller instead of JBD, Sillinger instead of Boucher, Peterka instead of Jarventie, ect would have done it, but every team has it's misses. I think we need to clean up our first round a bit, we've technically met expectations with Brady Stu, Greig and Sanderson, especially if Yakemchuk hits. But I think Boucher, Thomson, and Brown were all area's of opportunity. Having a McAvoy, Sillinger and McMichael in the system for example, would have been a huge boon.

Yes, when you trade 1st rounders when you are still rebuiding, its not a great way for a small-market Canadian team to operate. When it comes to drafting, I think we need to be above average (hopefully by a comfortable margin) as we are not prime destination for free agents, and when you trade for a decent player, some decent assets are typically going the other way.

 

[Micklebot]

Yes, when you trade 1st rounders when you are still rebuiding, its not a great way for a small-market Canadian team to operate. When it comes to drafting, I think we need to be above average (hopefully by a comfortable margin) as we are not prime destination for free agents, and when you trade for a decent player, some decent assets are typically going the other way.

So, every team wants to be above average drafting, it's not really a reasonable expectation. It might happen from time to time but almost impossible to maintain. We could try to go for quantity and draft more, so less giving up 2nd Rd picks to save money would have probably helped a lot.

As for trading during a rebuild, it kind of depends. I think had we traded for Marino instead of Chychrun for example, we'd have gotten pretty good value (he likely would have cost less, probably just the first would have done it). The issue is more that we were targetting the wrong guys at the wrong time. The trick is trading for guys that want to be here, and fill a role. DBC didn't want to be here, but could fill a role, Chychrun seemed genuinely excited to be here but didn't fill a role we needed.

 

[aragorn]

Staois IMO has made four big moves that should help this team be much harder to play against & help push for a playoff spot.

1. #1 Goalie - he made a very good trade for Ullmark & got rid of Korpisalo
2. Top 4 RD - made a good trade for a stable Jensen RD & got rid of Chychrun who was a bad fit
3. Drafted Yakemchuck RD with his 1st OA which has so far turned out well & it fits a huge need
4. Brought in 4 good veteran players (Perron, Cousins, Amadio & Gregor) with some jam to play a larger mentoring role with the team & make them much harder to play against.

IMO Ott has four prospects who will all be at some future point good players on this team.

- Ostapchuk C/LW is exactly the kind of player Ott needs to be harder to play against & contribute to winning in numerous ways. He's big, tough, fast, hits, is very good defensively & is hard to play against.

- Yakemchuk RD checked all the boxes they needed at the draft & has shown in preseason that when he plays with much better players still stands out as a big skilled player who can contribute to this team in a top 4 RD role.

- Halliday C has the vision & playmaking ability to be a good NHL player if he can also get better defensively. He also has to work on faceoffs, but offensively could be a good contributor that can move up when required.

- Boucher RW has a unique opportunity if he can stay healthy, he has the size & thickness to be a hard player to play against & that other teams fear with his hitting. He can change momentum or a game completely with a big hit & he already has an NHL wrist shot. He's also a decent passer & skater & just needs to find his niche on a team that wants to be harder to play against & much tougher, he can help with that. Ostapchuk - Halliday - Bucher would be a decent future 3rd or 4th line, but its more likely they replace vets that may age out.

- IMO the best goalie prospect in Ott's prospect pool is Merilainen G, I find Sogaard to be too inconsistent & allows too many weak goals. Both Reidler G & Nikitin G could also turn into decent goalies, but I'm not sure we have a future #1 goalie in our prospect pool yet.

- they also have a number of interesting prospects who could challenge in future such as, Andonovski LD, Stanley RD, Eliasson LD, Ellinus LW, Javon, Moore RW, Reidler G, Nikitin G

 

[HoweHullOrr]

So, every team wants to be above average drafting, it's not really a reasonable expectation. It might happen from time to time but almost impossible to maintain. We could try to go for quantity and draft more, so less giving up 2nd Rd picks to save money would have probably helped a lot.

As for trading during a rebuild, it kind of depends. I think had we traded for Marino instead of Chychrun for example, we'd have gotten pretty good value (he likely would have cost less, probably just the first would have done it). The issue is more that we were targetting the wrong guys at the wrong time. The trick is trading for guys that want to be here, and fill a role. DBC didn't want to be here, but could fill a role, Chychrun seemed genuinely excited to be here but didn't fill a role we needed.

Sure, you hope when you trade, you get some term and it fills a need.

As for draft results, I guess it depends on expectation. I’m hoping for true success and a lot more than just squeaking into the playoffs. Drafting is going to the main tool in our tool box. We finally got a good RD prospect & that has been an obvious need as part of our core for quite some time.

 

[Micklebot]

Sure, you hope when you trade, you get some term and it fills a need.

As for draft results, I guess it depends on expectation. I’m hoping for true success and a lot more than just squeaking into the playoffs. Drafting is going to the main tool in our tool box. We finally got a good RD prospect & that has been an obvious need as part of our core for quite some time.

I guess what I'm trying to say is if you're plan to compete for the cup is to draft significantly above average, then you are essentially using lottery tickets as your retirement planning. Its not really a strategy so much as wishful thinking.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

You must have been in a jet to do that? Do you own your own jet?

No it’s papa’s

Travis Green “it was an ugly game, some players played themselves off the team, cuts tomorrow so we can get down to the real NHL players”

DJ Smith “Played hard, tracked, really loved the effort. These guys are fighting for their lives and the ice wasn’t great, ref’s made a few calls to give them the game but overall I really liked our performance.”

One coach wished the NHL for all his players, the other coach knows the NHL is a club for the elite

And both their teams played like total ass with them as head coach

 

[HoweHullOrr]

I guess what I'm trying to say is if you're plan to compete for the cup is to draft significantly above average, then you are essentially using lottery tickets as your retirement planning. Its not really a strategy so much as wishful thinking.

I disagree.

When you get your chance to draft high, you need to hit with those picks.

Plus, being above average isn’t an unobtainable objective if you have a talented scouting dept. Sure, there’s some luck involved. I’m not ignoring that. But it isn’t all random and totally dependent on being lucky. Skill and preparation are necessary ingredients in success as well. As they say, you have to be good to lucky. And, I didn’t say drafting is the only tool in the tool box either and that the plan for success is monolithic.

On that note, if I continue, I’ll only be repeating myself. So, it's time to bow out of this discussion. I like the retirement planning example though. I didn’t use lottery tickets as part of my plan either. LOL.

 

[LiseL]

come on jesus outshot 24-5 this is embarassing even for pre seaosn Wake the f up.

Against a AHL/ECHL roster no less. The only bright spot was Linus and Gregor so far. Easy to say our depth doesn't come anywhere close to matching up against Buffalo's depth.

 

[Micklebot]

I disagree.

When you get your chance to draft high, you need to hit with those picks.

Plus, being above average isn’t an unobtainable objective if you have a talented scouting dept. Sure, there’s some luck involved. I’m not ignoring that. But it isn’t all random and totally dependent on being lucky. Skill and preparation are necessary ingredients in success as well. As they say, you have to be good to lucky.

On that note, if I continue, I’ll only be repeating myself. So, it's time to bow out of this discussion.

Right, so if it's not an unrealistic expectation, why wouldn't every team just do it? So easy, why didn't they think of that?

Every team will have ups and downs at the draft table. If you do get lucky and have great scouts that consistenly beat expectations, you'll lose them to promotions from other teams and the cycle will start again.

The only thing you can guarantee is underperformance by under staffing. We may have done a bit of that under Melnyk, but with a full staff, plan for average and if drafting needs to be a core tool, do it by having more quantity not by expecting to beat the odds.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

come on jesus outshot 24-5 this is embarassing even for pre seaosn Wake the f up.

Impressive performance by Jesus. What number was he wearing? I didn’t see him.

 

[LiseL]

Some of these guys are scared shitless knowing they'll be cut

If that's the case, then they don't deserve to be in the NHL.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Travis Green “it was an ugly game, some players played themselves off the team, cuts tomorrow so we can get down to the real NHL players”

DJ Smith “Played hard, tracked, really loved the effort. These guys are fighting for their lives and the ice wasn’t great, ref’s made a few calls to give them the game but overall I really liked our performance.”

One coach wished the NHL for all his players, the other coach knows the NHL is a club for the elite

Green doesn't baby his players or mince his words in fear of upsetting their feelings.

Love it.