OT: Sens Lounge -The four seasons edition

[coladin]

Awesome. It's wonderful isn't it. I've seen it out there a lot here. Lawyers, Doctors, elected officials, grandparents, conservatives, etc.

I was never much of a drinker and have always leaned more towards Cannabis, so it's been nice to see the attached stigma mostly die out as it always felt like such a strange double standard where it needed to be hidden to a certain extent.

I still vape and/or eat edibles before every game I play. Highly recommended lol.

Yeah, and they are a treat on the streets as their driving impairment is becoming a major issue

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Yeah, and they are a treat on the streets as their driving impairment is becoming a major issue

That's mostly just a thing people say. Any actual statistics on this? I don't buy that narrative personally because I know the relatively low effect it has, but certainly, like alcohol, prescriptions and other drugs, there are some that use it irresponsibly. But really, it's no worse than half the prescriptions everyone's soccer mom is on now or the legal limits of alcohol. All it takes is 1 drink for me to feel like I shouldn't be driving, but as soon as softball is over, everyone's hopped in their vehicles and drove home 2 or 3 beers in a 2 hour window.

It was also already basically legal and as easy to find as a loaf of bread, so it's not like this wasn't happening before. If anything, there's been more ad campaigns to bring awareness now that it's actually a thing people concern themselves with. I don't condone it, but I think there's a certain element of hysteria born from bias with this.

Also, weren't you just recently sort of bragging here about hard blowing the speed limits you've personally decided are too low in your hot rod? Seems kind of hypocritical to me, but maybe I remember that incorrectly.

 

[Micklebot]

That's mostly just a thing people say. Any actual statistics on this? I don't buy that narrative personally because I know the relatively low effect it has, but certainly, like alcohol, prescriptions and other drugs, there are some that use it irresponsibly. But really, it's no worse than half the prescriptions everyone's soccer mom is on now or the legal limits of alcohol. All it takes is 1 drink for me to feel like I shouldn't be driving, but as soon as softball is over, everyone's hopped in their vehicles and drove home 2 or 3 beers in a 2 hour window.

It was also already basically legal and as easy to find as a loaf of bread, so it's not like this wasn't happening before. If anything, there's been more ad campaigns to bring awareness now that it's actually a thing people concern themselves with. I don't condone it, but I think there's a certain element of hysteria born from bias with this.

Also, weren't you just recently sort of bragging here about hard blowing the speed limits you've personally decided are too low in your hot rod? Seems kind of hypocritical to me, but maybe I remember that incorrectly.

Not sure about the current stats, but:

JustFacts

Research and Statistics Division and Legal Aid Directorate Department of Justice Canada 2021

www.justice.gc.ca

​

"The rate of drug-impaired driving offencesFootnote 16 increased 105% from 2017 to 2020 (9 to 19 offences per 100,000 population, respectively). Due to the new legislation, police have additional means available to them to detect drug-impaired driving, which may in part explain this increase. The rate of drug-impaired driving offences increased in all but two jurisdictions: British Columbia (+212%), Yukon (+163%), Prince Edward Island (+142%), Ontario (+133%), New Brunswick (+130%), Quebec (+88%), Newfoundland and Labrador (+83%), Saskatchewan (+65%), Nova Scotia (+58%), Manitoba (+48%) and Alberta (+47%). The Northwest Territories (-30%), and Nunavut (-11%) recorded the only decreases."​

​

One caveat here is that the legalization of cannabis came with significant investment into training and means for detecting drug impared driving, so I don't know if the incidents of impaired driving has increased, or we are just more aware of it. My guess is a bit of both.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Not sure about the current stats, but:

JustFacts

Research and Statistics Division and Legal Aid Directorate Department of Justice Canada 2021

www.justice.gc.ca

​

"The rate of drug-impaired driving offencesFootnote 16 increased 105% from 2017 to 2020 (9 to 19 offences per 100,000 population, respectively). Due to the new legislation, police have additional means available to them to detect drug-impaired driving, which may in part explain this increase. The rate of drug-impaired driving offences increased in all but two jurisdictions: British Columbia (+212%), Yukon (+163%), Prince Edward Island (+142%), Ontario (+133%), New Brunswick (+130%), Quebec (+88%), Newfoundland and Labrador (+83%), Saskatchewan (+65%), Nova Scotia (+58%), Manitoba (+48%) and Alberta (+47%). The Northwest Territories (-30%), and Nunavut (-11%) recorded the only decreases."​

​

One caveat here is that the legalization of cannabis came with significant investment into training and means for detecting drug impared driving, so I don't know if the incidents of impaired driving has increased, or we are just more aware of it. My guess is a bit of both.

Thanks.

The opinion of the partners at our firm when it came up is that it is mostly due to the former and that the testing is still too controversial and not necessarily indicative that someone is impaired, only that it's in their system, but certainly there would be some increase just because it did become easier to attain.

This article talks about a lot of the issues with testing and actually proving impairment instead of it just being in someone's system. It's a pretty significant issue in general.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon/increase-drug-related-roadside-suspensions-questions-pot-laws-policing-1.7197771

I don't mean to sound like I'm arguing for it, I personally aim for a 2 hour window in general like when I smoke before hockey I do it at the rink after I've driven there, but I do think there's an element of irrational opinions born from bias against it in general. This has been around us for a very long time already and in some ways the boldness around it is now gone because it is being policed. If there's one thing that is clear, it doesn't intoxicate anyone to the levels alcohol does, and policing it to that extent is not required.


And while completely unrelated, my experience is that the real issue on the roads is and continues to be the use of cell phones. Every single time I have a close call with someone, they're staring down at their lap, obviously on their phone.

 

[Micklebot]

Thanks.

The opinion of the partners at our firm when it came up is that it is mostly due to the former and that the testing is still too controversial and not necessarily indicative that someone is impaired, only that it's in their system, but certainly there would be some increase just because it did become a easier to attain.

This article talks about a lot of the issues with testing and actually proving impairment instead of it just being in someone's system. It's a pretty significant issue in general.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon/increase-drug-related-roadside-suspensions-questions-pot-laws-policing-1.7197771

I don't mean to sound like I'm arguing for it, I personally aim for a 2 hour window in general like when I smoke before hockey I do it at the rink after I've driven there, but I do think there's an element of irrational opinions born from bias against it in general. This has been around us for a very long time already and in some ways the boldness around it is now gone because it is being policed. If there's one thing that is clear, it doesn't intoxicate anyone to the levels alcohol does, and policing it to that extent is not required.

I think there's wealth of issues, especially early on. It's less evident how strong something is, with alcohol, people have a general sense of "units" of alcohol, while with cannabis the level of education hasn't caught up. how much you are getting from a hit off a vape, vs taking an edible, vs smoking a joint, and then from that, how long it takes to sober up which can vary depending on whether it's edibles or not.

I do wonder as well if theres a degree of people just switching from one vice to the other, so lots more drug impaired offenses might be switching from alcohol to drugs.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I think there's wealth of issues, especially early on. It's less evident how strong something is, with alcohol, people have a general sense of "units" of alcohol, while with cannabis the level of education hasn't caught up. how much you are getting from a hit off a vape, vs taking an edible, vs smoking a joint, and then from that, how long it takes to sober up which can vary depending on whether it's edibles or not.

I do wonder as well if theres a degree of people just switching from one vice to the other, so lots more drug impaired offenses might be switching from alcohol to drugs.

Ya, it was known that it wasn't going to go smoothly with it not being easily identifiable like alcohol is.

And you make a good point on the variables. The methods of consumption, potency, amounts, etc. all have an impact. And everyone is affected by it differently. Someone that uses regularly builds up a tolerance to the point it's more of a maintenance thing where you really can't get blitzed on it anymore and can do daily tasks without issue. Someone that only uses occasionally has the potential to get really high, which probably is more comparable to the experience had by people that only tried it. If that was your experience, you probably do put it on the level of alcohol, and I would absolutely agree someone in that position should not be behind a wheel for a couple hours.

I'm sure a lot do. I know at least a few people that were able to kick their drinking habit by moving to cannabis. Some that were able to kick various prescriptions in favor of it too.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

VW Is Shifting Billions From EV Plans to Gas Car Development

VW isn’t the first major automaker to reassess the EV situation, joining Ford, GM, and Mercedes-Benz.

www.thedrive.com

 

[coladin]

That's mostly just a thing people say. Any actual statistics on this? I don't buy that narrative personally because I know the relatively low effect it has, but certainly, like alcohol, prescriptions and other drugs, there are some that use it irresponsibly. But really, it's no worse than half the prescriptions everyone's soccer mom is on now or the legal limits of alcohol. All it takes is 1 drink for me to feel like I shouldn't be driving, but as soon as softball is over, everyone's hopped in their vehicles and drove home 2 or 3 beers in a 2 hour window.

It was also already basically legal and as easy to find as a loaf of bread, so it's not like this wasn't happening before. If anything, there's been more ad campaigns to bring awareness now that it's actually a thing people concern themselves with. I don't condone it, but I think there's a certain element of hysteria born from bias with this.

Also, weren't you just recently sort of bragging here about hard blowing the speed limits you've personally decided are too low in your hot rod? Seems kind of hypocritical to me, but maybe I remember that incorrectly.

I wasn't bragging. People in shitboxes drive a hell of a lost faster than I do in my "hot rod". But if I do, I won't ever be impaired. Or high. I have seen too many accidents with kids high crashing cars, so yeah, it actually is a thing.

 

[Relapsing]

I wasn't bragging. People in shitboxes drive a hell of a lost faster than I do in my "hot rod". But if I do, I won't ever be impaired. Or high. I have seen too many accidents with kids high crashing cars, so yeah, it actually is a thing.

I can't help but wonder, if you're talking about accidents you've seen... How do you know they were high?

 

[milkbag]

You don't know what it's like to feel alive until you drive 160 down the 417 at 3am in your 2001 Pontiac Montana after a violent bong rip

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I wasn't bragging. People in shitboxes drive a hell of a lost faster than I do in my "hot rod". But if I do, I won't ever be impaired. Or high. I have seen too many accidents with kids high crashing cars, so yeah, it actually is a thing.

Oh, I know, shit box or hot rod, doesn't really matter, lots of people driving too fast. It's usually teenagers or young adults ime. I'm just saying, you've decided the speed limits in certain areas are too low and spoke openly here about breaking them. I believe it was referred to as ticket cash cow zones? I don't even disagree with that point, that's a big argument against cannabis driving infractions just the same since it's not proving actual intoxication levels. Its just a bit hypocritical imo to worry about road safety, talk openly about that here previously, but complain about drivers on cannabis as if it's some epidemic happening across the country. Is there any evidence of that besides your anecdotal claims that seem dubious at best? Probably a fair point from Relapsing to ask how would you know? And how would you know that was the cause of the accident and that they were truly intoxicated? My anecdotal experience is almost all drunk drivers and distracted cell phone using drivers causing the worst accidents I've seen/heard about and always the cell phone users or excessive speeders on close calls I've had. I'd be willing to bet that drivers breaking speed limits and distracted drivers are still responsible for far more accidents than cannabis intoxication is.

I guess what I amsaying is I think it's a bit of a boogieman argument. It was also basically already legal in Canada before all this, so there may not even be any sort of tangible increase in cannabis intoxication causing accidents than was experienced before legalization. I was ordering mine off the internet for at least 4 years from Treemo before it was legal and never had issues finding it. If Rcmp got ya, worst they did was take it and hassle you a bit. I am open to statistics that can demonstrate otherwise and don't mean to be confrontational, but it's hard not to feel like these are still points being latched on to by those struggling with their personal feelings about it. And I can even relate to those feelings a bit and cut you a break, because I have a lot of those about Alcohol and how prevelant it is in society for how harmful it can be.

 

[coladin]

Oh, I know, shit box or hot rod, doesn't really matter, lots of people driving too fast. It's usually teenagers or young adults ime. I'm just saying, you've decided the speed limits in certain areas are too low and spoke openly here about breaking them. I believe it was referred to as ticket cash cow zones? I don't even disagree with that point, that's a big argument against cannabis driving infractions just the same since it's not proving actual intoxication levels. Its just a bit hypocritical imo to worry about road safety, talk openly about that here previously, but complain about drivers on cannabis as if it's some epidemic happening across the country. Is there any evidence of that besides your anecdotal claims that seem dubious at best? Probably a fair point from Relapsing to ask how would you know? And how would you know that was the cause of the accident and that they were truly intoxicated? My anecdotal experience is almost all drunk drivers and distracted cell phone using drivers causing the worst accidents I've seen/heard about and always the cell phone users or excessive speeders on close calls I've had. I'd be willing to bet that drivers breaking speed limits and distracted drivers are still responsible for far more accidents than cannabis intoxication is.

I guess what I amsaying is I think it's a bit of a boogieman argument. It was also basically already legal in Canada before all this, so there may not even be any sort of tangible increase in cannabis intoxication causing accidents than was experienced before legalization. I was ordering mine off the internet for at least 4 years from Treemo before it was legal and never had issues finding it. If Rcmp got ya, worst they did was take it and hassle you a bit. I am open to statistics that can demonstrate otherwise and don't mean to be confrontational, but it's hard not to feel like these are still points being latched on to by those struggling with their personal feelings about it. And I can even relate to those feelings a bit and cut you a break, because I have a lot of those about Alcohol and how prevelant it is in society for how harmful it can be.

Boy you really love your weed.

Mickelbot gave you the stats. Not good enough because, uhh, you and Relapsing love the Chronic. I have first hand experience. I have many stories of parents In Riverside South and Barrhaven tell me.

Basically, anone you see without their lights on at night are all baked. I have never seen it so bad.

You can derail with cellphone talk or reckless driving. Those are valid points, but I want to talk about drivers driving high, and it is massively on the rise. Me wanting to go 10 or 20km/h over in peace is not quite the same thing

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Boy you really love your weed.

Mickelbot gave you the stats. Not good enough because, uhh, you and Relapsing love the Chronic. I have first hand experience. I have many stories of parents In Riverside South and Barrhaven tell me.

Basically, anone you see without their lights on at night are all baked. I have never seen it so bad.

You can derail with cellphone talk or reckless driving. Those are valid points, but I want to talk about drivers driving high, and it is massively on the rise. Me wanting to go 10 or 20km/h over in peace is not quite the same thing

Well, it's a healthier alternative to alcohol and many prescriptions, so yes, it is my preferred vice if I'm to have one. The peer pressure I faced to drink in excess and womanize while being judged for that and looking to connect with women instead has certainly galvanized my push back, no doubt. I admit to my bias for weed and against alcohol and have had many debates over this kind of stuff. I also like to inquire about and push peoples boundaries on why they have bias against Cannabis because it interests me.

Those aren't the statistics we're looking for though. Did you read through it? There's very little of any use there and obviously massive caveats to the data they acknowledge in the quote below. It's increased because they're looking for it and going after it with new legislation and testing equipment actually allowing them to do it. It just basically wasn't a thing before all this and was mostly ignored. This is anecdotal, but we got busted by cops hotboxing cars numerous times and the only thing they would do is take our weed and order us to drive home or back to school or wherever we were supposed to be. Not even a log in their notebook and there was never any talk of intoxication or not being able to drive. Maybe that's not everyone's experience. There is also the issue of driving related infractions referenced in the data, and what's actually being measured to be "intoxicated" like was talked about in the article I posted. I'm open to being proven wrong, but that wasn't what we need to do that because there's no reliable baseline to go off of, but that puts us both in a tough spot. And again, what do these look like compared to other real issues like distracted driving. Maybe that's muddying the waters and derailing, but I think it's valid to ask, are we focusing on a real threat that exists in abundance and needs to be addressed, or are these such a small percentage that it's making a mountain out of a molehill because a large part of society has Cannabis bias?

I don't deny your experience, but it's unmeasurable because it's anecdotal, presumptuous and based on hearsay from friends and what not, so I can't really argue those points. Anecdotally, it's been a complete non issue where I live and I've never heard this from anyone else at any point as a real concern. When we were teenagers, it was easy to find and we were doing that then too. It's not new having teenagers and young adults driving around stoned and I think the issue is more to do with generally irresponsible youth that are making poor choices left right and center. Doesn't mean it's right, but like all teenagers, they usually have to experience the dumb out of them and that's part of growing up.

It all probably seems like I'm arguing that driving ripped is cool. I don't. I think driving is a huge responsibility and I give myself typically a 2+ hour window, but when I look around and think about what concerns me on the road and what I'm at risk from, it's so far down the list that I find it hard to even consider it an issue.

The Act to Amend the Criminal Code (Offences Related to Conveyances) and to make consequential amendments to other Acts was implemented in 2018 to modernize, simplify and strengthen impaired driving laws, and to create new and stronger laws to combat drug-impaired driving. In response to the legalization of cannabis, these changes created three new offences for being over a prohibited blood drug concentration level within two hours of driving, and authorized police to use approved oral fluid drug screening equipment at the roadside.

The rate of drug-impaired driving offencesFootnote16 increased 105% from 2017 to 2020 (9 to 19 offences per 100,000 population, respectively). Due to the new legislation, police have additional means available to them to detect drug-impaired driving, which may in part explain this increase

 

[ACLEVERNAME]

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Lol, truth! forgive me everyone. Makes me think of this scene. I'm here today because I'm addicted to marijuana...

 

[maclean]

I'm sure a lot do. I know at least a few people that were able to kick their drinking habit by moving to cannabis. Some that were able to kick various prescriptions in favor of it too.

It's one interesting thing about it and it's one thing that kind of rubs me the wrong way about the pro-cannabis argument. An alcoholic who is drinking all the time is a trainwreck, but someone who is stoned from the moment they wake up is "fine". I just don't buy it. Just because someone has learned to function while inebriated does not mean they're fine. Lots of addicts to various substances you wouldn't necessarily even know they're using unless you're looking closely. I'm not trying to hate, but the friends I have who are chronic users, I wouldn't entirely classify them as "fine"... Like OK, I take the argument that they don't pose a danger to those around them (arguably one might have to take into account their level of responsibility for others), but they do tend to be a drag to those that depend on them, being super flaky etc. That empty gaze just makes me want to be like, maaan, c'mon. And I know that's not necessarily what you were specifically talking about, but it's an aspect that I think influences a lot of people's opinions.

 

[Stylizer1]

Basically, anone you see without their lights on at night are all baked. I have never seen it so bad.

You can derail with cellphone talk or reckless driving. Those are valid points, but I want to talk about drivers driving high, and it is massively on the rise. Me wanting to go 10 or 20km/h over in peace is not quite the same thing

Or it could be a relay issue. lol

 

[Stylizer1]

Weed got serious in the 90's where THC levels were regularly in the %20+ range thanks to superior genetics and growing techniques. When evaluating the stats one should look at it from the 70's to now to see if there are any changes due to consumption. Those stats are probably not available because it wasn't a problem then like now. Its just self interest groups like MADD and the government are always looking for new ways to promote themselves and secure new streams of revenue through enforcement.

Driving stoned from weed is nothing like being drunk. They are not even comparable.

 

[Stylizer1]

Well, it's a healthier alternative to alcohol and many prescriptions, so yes, it is my preferred vice if I'm to have one. The peer pressure I faced to drink in excess and womanize while being judged for that and looking to connect with women instead has certainly galvanized my push back, no doubt. I admit to my bias for weed and against alcohol and have had many debates over this kind of stuff. I also like to inquire about and push peoples boundaries on why they have bias against Cannabis because it interests me.

Those aren't the statistics we're looking for though. Did you read through it? There's very little of any use there and obviously massive caveats to the data they acknowledge in the quote below. It's increased because they're looking for it and going after it with new legislation and testing equipment actually allowing them to do it. It just basically wasn't a thing before all this and was mostly ignored. This is anecdotal, but we got busted by cops hotboxing cars numerous times and the only thing they would do is take our weed and order us to drive home or back to school or wherever we were supposed to be. Not even a log in their notebook and there was never any talk of intoxication or not being able to drive. Maybe that's not everyone's experience. There is also the issue of driving related infractions referenced in the data, and what's actually being measured to be "intoxicated" like was talked about in the article I posted. I'm open to being proven wrong, but that wasn't what we need to do that because there's no reliable baseline to go off of, but that puts us both in a tough spot. And again, what do these look like compared to other real issues like distracted driving. Maybe that's muddying the waters and derailing, but I think it's valid to ask, are we focusing on a real threat that exists in abundance and needs to be addressed, or are these such a small percentage that it's making a mountain out of a molehill because a large part of society has Cannabis bias?

I don't deny your experience, but it's unmeasurable because it's anecdotal, presumptuous and based on hearsay from friends and what not, so I can't really argue those points. Anecdotally, it's been a complete non issue where I live and I've never heard this from anyone else at any point as a real concern. When we were teenagers, it was easy to find and we were doing that then too. It's not new having teenagers and young adults driving around stoned and I think the issue is more to do with generally irresponsible youth that are making poor choices left right and center. Doesn't mean it's right, but like all teenagers, they usually have to experience the dumb out of them and that's part of growing up.

It all probably seems like I'm arguing that driving ripped is cool. I don't. I think driving is a huge responsibility and I give myself typically a 2+ hour window, but when I look around and think about what concerns me on the road and what I'm at risk from, it's so far down the list that I find it hard to even consider it an issue.

The Act to Amend the Criminal Code (Offences Related to Conveyances) and to make consequential amendments to other Acts was implemented in 2018 to modernize, simplify and strengthen impaired driving laws, and to create new and stronger laws to combat drug-impaired driving. In response to the legalization of cannabis, these changes created three new offences for being over a prohibited blood drug concentration level within two hours of driving, and authorized police to use approved oral fluid drug screening equipment at the roadside.

The rate of drug-impaired driving offencesFootnote16 increased 105% from 2017 to 2020 (9 to 19 offences per 100,000 population, respectively). Due to the new legislation, police have additional means available to them to detect drug-impaired driving, which may in part explain this increase

Yeah but there's nothing like driving down a country road on a beautiful day listening to some music and puffing on a fathead.

 

[ACLEVERNAME]

Driving stoned from weed is nothing like being drunk. They are not even comparable.

Depends on the person. I cannot function at all when I'm high even on my 'easy going' 1/3 split THC/CBD stuff. Yet I have coworkers driving heavy machinery day in day out under the influence with absolutely no problem. It's absolutely mind-boggling to me.

It hits different for different folks I guess. For me it's on the same level (a step down maybe) as psilocybin where I'm on another plane of existance all together. I would never drink and drive but I could not even fathom driving while high. Devils lettuce.

 

[Micklebot]

Basically, anone you see without their lights on at night are all baked. I have never seen it so bad.

I'm sorry, is this a euphemism or are you suggesting there's a causal relationship with a cars lights being off at night and the driver being high?

Even if I were to accept this as true, I'm struggling to think of any mechanism to explain it, like why would getting high result in lights off (especially given most modern cars have an auto setting for the lights that nobody turns off). Why would whatever mechanism causing high drivers not to turn on their lights not equally affect drunk drivers?

As an aside, I find it has been increasingly infrequent that I see people drive with their lights off, likely due to almost every car on the road having auto lights these days.

 

[ACLEVERNAME]

I'm sorry, is this a euphemism or are you suggesting there's a causal relationship with a cars lights being off at night and the driver being high?

Even if I were to accept this as true, I'm struggling to think of any mechanism to explain it, like why would getting high result in lights off (especially given most modern cars have an auto setting for the lights that nobody turns off). Why would whatever mechanism causing high drivers not to turn on their lights not equally affect drunk drivers?

As an aside, I find it has been increasingly infrequent that I see people drive with their lights off, likely due to almost every car on the road having auto lights these days.

You ever shine a light on a hippy? Irritates the hell outta them. Cops use to do it back in the day for good reason. It 'harshes' the 'mellow' from what I understand. Also see lava lamps and black lights and dimmer switches. Absolute savages.

 

[milkbag]

Yeah but there's nothing like driving down a country road on a beautiful day listening to some music and puffing on a fathead.

Ahh, a fellow man of culture

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

This popped up on my YouTube suggestions this morning... a follow-up to the Terence Howard discussion a few pages back.