GDT: Seattle Kraken Free Agent Frenzy Discussion

[rsteen]

I think in free agency right now he'd get close to $8m x 8. The Kraken are seemingly risk averse, but some clubs are willing to take the risk. They need a #1D so they just hope he plays like one. But I don't see those clubs paying much in trade value for him on top of that.

In free agency on July 1st, or right now? The only teams that can add 8M and fill out a roster without moving someone else out are the Preds, Kraken, the three tankers in Chicago, Anaheim and Arizona, and maybe the Wings.

 

[The Marquis]

I think in free agency right now he'd get close to $8m x 8. The Kraken are seemingly risk averse, but some clubs are willing to take the risk. They need a #1D so they just hope he plays like one. But I don't see those clubs paying much in trade value for him on top of that.

The ONLY reason I don't think this is true is due to where we are in FA. The market is burnt up. There's hardly any money left. While I don't disagree SOMEBODY would pay him that, I just don't see enough teams that CAN and would want to. The teams who have the cap space are mostly teams on the rebuild or teams looking to save a buck and look for bargains. He's also not the type of player other teams are going to snatch up in hopes they can move a player for nothing (Like Gaudreau was last year).

The Kraken are one of only a handful of teams that can afford him and the Kraken have built a ceiling that is INSANELY LOW at 5.9m (whoo hooo!) Francis, having just signed a new contract is going to be VERY careful about raising that ceiling. I'd almost be working on Matty first just to say "look Vince's agent, I present, the Kraken ceiling, Matty Beniers."

 

[majormajor]

In free agency on July 1st, or right now? The only teams that can add 8M and fill out a roster without moving someone else out are the Preds, Kraken, the three tankers in Chicago, Anaheim and Arizona, and maybe the Wings.

July 1st is what I meant.

The Kraken are one of only a handful of teams that can afford him and the Kraken have built a ceiling that is INSANELY LOW at 5.9m (whoo hooo!) Francis, having just signed a new contract is going to be VERY careful about raising that ceiling. I'd almost be working on Matty first just to say "look Vince's agent, I present, the Kraken ceiling, Matty Beniers."

$5.9m is like #3D money in FA, we'll be blowing past that for a lot of guys.

 

[The Marquis]

July 1st is what I meant.



$5.9m is like #3D money in FA, we'll be blowing past that for a lot of guys.

Naturally, but the Kraken are in control. Unlike say.. the Leafs, where the ceiling is so high every player wants to be PAID.

 

[rsteen]

Naturally, but the Kraken are in control. Unlike say.. the Leafs, where the ceiling is so high every player wants to be PAID.

Dunn only has one more RFA year so I wouldn't say the Kraken are in control long-term. If Dunn wants to go to UFA with the cap due to rise next summer, he can take his one-year arbitration award. However that's risky for him in case this season was a one-off. Hopefully they can come to an agreement before arbitration.

 

[gstommylee]

Dunn only has one more RFA year so I wouldn't say the Kraken are in control long-term. If Dunn wants to go to UFA with the cap due to rise next summer, he can take his one-year arbitration award. However that's risky for him in case this season was a one-off. Hopefully they can come to an agreement before arbitration.

he'll be traded before seattle ever lets him walk his way to UFA and like debrincat he's going to find there isn't a lot of cap space out there if he wants to be on a contending team.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

he'll be traded before seattle ever lets him walk his way to UFA and like debrincat he's going to find there isn't a lot of cap space out there if he wants to be on a contending team.

I agree with this statement, mostly. If he does not sign a long-term contract, he could be moved before arbitration OR a sign-and-trade OR as a rental at the TDL. The only way the latter would be a concern is if we are deep in a playoff race.

Losing Dunn, undoubtedly hurts us in the playoff race but unlike Soucy, I don't think we can keep him as our own rental. By then, we know he is not going to re-sign here and it's worth moving him out.

 

[The Marquis]

Dunn only has one more RFA year so I wouldn't say the Kraken are in control long-term. If Dunn wants to go to UFA with the cap due to rise next summer, he can take his one-year arbitration award. However that's risky for him in case this season was a one-off. Hopefully they can come to an agreement before arbitration.

I’m talking in control of their individual cap hit ceiling because it’s the lowest in the league.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Dunn only has one more RFA year so I wouldn't say the Kraken are in control long-term. If Dunn wants to go to UFA with the cap due to rise next summer, he can take his one-year arbitration award. However that's risky for him in case this season was a one-off. Hopefully they can come to an agreement before arbitration.

Well yes. But he also has no protection and the Kraken could move him for the highest value to a non-contender. If he sinks, that will really hurt his value. This team has set him up for success and given him a real good partner in Larsson. Could he repeat the same season elsewhere? That is the dilemma in gauging his value. I am ok with Francis taking his time here and really would not want to overpay for Dunn.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Digging into our roster for 2024-25, things could be very different:

Eberle (UFA)
Wennberg (UFA)
Beniers (RFA)
Tolvanen (RFA)
Schultz (UFA)

Beniers is a 100% guarantee to be re-signed. High chance we do that for Tolvanen as well. What is Francis' vision going forward? Eberle and Wennberg are not going to be easy to replace from within unless Wright and one of our other prospects makes a massive leap next season.

 

[The Marquis]

Beniers and Tolvanen stick around for sure. Schultz is probably on market, but could return. Eberle and Wennberg are interesting. Eberle is a very good player to have around. Feels like a guy others would want to play with, especially Canadian players. Wennberg? Not sure.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Beniers and Tolvanen stick around for sure. Schultz is probably on market, but could return. Eberle and Wennberg are interesting. Eberle is a very good player to have around. Feels like a guy others would want to play with, especially Canadian players. Wennberg? Not sure.

I think RF would really like a Wennberg replacement from within. Wright makes the most sense but he has to do quite a bit to crack the top-6. I agree on Eberle, the more I see him the more I want him back. I think it should be doable for a 2-3 year contract but I doubt Francis bites on more. Tolvanen is one of the players I can see moved at the TDL for a decent return IF the team is out of the playoff hunt and what he is asking on his next contract does not align with RF. Though if I were to put money on it, I would think Tolvy returns.

 

[rsteen]

Well yes. But he also has no protection and the Kraken could move him for the highest value to a non-contender. If he sinks, that will really hurt his value. This team has set him up for success and given him a real good partner in Larsson. Could he repeat the same season elsewhere? That is the dilemma in gauging his value. I am ok with Francis taking his time here and really would not want to overpay for Dunn.

At this point in the offseason the highest value may not be that great. It could be a lose-lose, Dunn could Klingberg himself. Hopefully that's an incentive to stick with the Kraken.

 

[Irie]

At this point in the offseason the highest value may not be that great. It could be a lose-lose, Dunn could Klingberg himself. Hopefully that's an incentive to stick with the Kraken.

I have to believe there would be a ton more interest in Dunn than what Klingberg got as a UFA.

Dunn has a fierce competitive nature. He's chippy and physical and can actually play pretty good defense, while having top pair offensive skills.

Klingberg is a defensively suspect one dimensional player.

If I am a GM, i would offer Dunn a substantial contract. Ideally, I wouldn't want Klingberg on my team at league minimum if I have built my defense right - I just don't think he is the kind of player you can win with.

he'll be traded before seattle ever lets him walk his way to UFA and like debrincat he's going to find there isn't a lot of cap space out there if he wants to be on a contending team.

Will he? Losing Dunn from the current roster likely means no playoffs. It is no secret that ownership is pushing hard to win now as they court the NBA to give them an expansion franchise. I have a feeling they would rather make the playoffs and lose Dunn for nothing than trade him for assets and miss the postseason.

Playoffs keeps the buzz about the team and the city relevant in the daily national news cycle. It adds legitimacy to the city as a great location with great fans. These are things that are more important to ownership currently than what the team looks like in several years.

 

[rsteen]

I have to believe there would be a ton more interest in Dunn than what Klingberg got as a UFA.

Dunn has a fierce competitive nature. He's chippy and physical and can actually play pretty good defense, while having top pair offensive skills.

Klingberg is a defensively suspect one dimensional player.

I meant the situation (player turns down deal with term with original team, finds that the grass is not neccessarily greener elsewhere and betting on a one-year deal sometimes doesn't work out) rather than a direct comparison of the players.

 

[Irie]

I meant the situation (player turns down deal with term with original team, finds that the grass is not neccessarily greener elsewhere and betting on a one-year deal sometimes doesn't work out) rather than a direct comparison of the players.

I think that given Dunn's age and his play last year that multiple GMs would work to open up space to add him if he suddenly became available. What they would give up and what kind of contact they would offer him is a legitimate question though, but he is young and would be a solid gamble for some teams lacking that top D I would think.

If I were Hughes in Montreal I would try really hard to make that work.

 

[gstommylee]

I agree with this statement, mostly. If he does not sign a long-term contract, he could be moved before arbitration OR a sign-and-trade OR as a rental at the TDL. The only way the latter would be a concern is if we are deep in a playoff race.

Losing Dunn, undoubtedly hurts us in the playoff race but unlike Soucy, I don't think we can keep him as our own rental. By then, we know he is not going to re-sign here and it's worth moving him out.

i been in discussion about dunn on discord and i feel people don't quite understand how big of an issue when you have a player thats RFA with 1 year till UFA for both the team and the players especially more so for the player when its been a mostly flat cap. While we probably could find a team that has enough cap space to give him the contract he wants however, those teams are not great and are mostly terrible.

The contending teams though would have to move contract just to beable to afford him and fill out the rest of the roster. Debrincat rant into that problem having to adjust from what he wants just to get traded.

 

[majormajor]

It is no secret that ownership is pushing hard to win now as they court the NBA to give them an expansion franchise. I have a feeling they would rather make the playoffs and lose Dunn for nothing than trade him for assets and miss the postseason.

Playoffs keeps the buzz about the team and the city relevant in the daily national news cycle. It adds legitimacy to the city as a great location with great fans. These are things that are more important to ownership currently than what the team looks like in several years.

And beyond that players want to play for teams that are building up and going for it, not the ones that are selling and being very patient. I have no doubt that Seattle is a very desirable place to play but the team will lose some of its appeal if it isn't as committed to winning now.

 

[majormajor]

I think RF would really like a Wennberg replacement from within. Wright makes the most sense but he has to do quite a bit to crack the top-6. I agree on Eberle, the more I see him the more I want him back. I think it should be doable for a 2-3 year contract but I doubt Francis bites on more. Tolvanen is one of the players I can see moved at the TDL for a decent return IF the team is out of the playoff hunt and what he is asking on his next contract does not align with RF. Though if I were to put money on it, I would think Tolvy returns.

I think Wright is on schedule to be able to replace Wennberg when his contract is up. He won't be as good defensively, at least not at first, but the two share a similarly cautious playstyle and its not a big ask to replace Wennberg's offense.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I think Wright is on schedule to be able to replace Wennberg when his contract is up. He won't be as good defensively, at least not at first, but the two share a similarly cautious playstyle and its not a big ask to replace Wennberg's offense.

I like your optimism and would be thrilled if Wright could fit into the top-6 at the beginning of 24-25. I also think Evans and Melanson make the jump in 24-25. That is the season where I think multiple prospects make the leap. With quite a few of our prospects playing in Coachella this season, it will be an interesting year.

 

[Fuhrious]

I'm not going to lie, I dont love that the Dunn situation appears to be dragging all the way to arbitration. It gives off the impression that he's definitely playing hardball on the process, which makes me nervous about his willingness to sign an extension once he hits UFA.

 

[majormajor]

I'm not going to lie, I dont love that the Dunn situation appears to be dragging all the way to arbitration. It gives off the impression that he's definitely playing hardball on the process, which makes me nervous about his willingness to sign an extension once he hits UFA.

Most likely he's just trying to get the big bucks and his bargaining has nothing to do with wanting to be elsewhere. The club can certainly pay for a #1D, if he is one, so I say let's find out if he is this year and take it from there.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I'm not going to lie, I dont love that the Dunn situation appears to be dragging all the way to arbitration. It gives off the impression that he's definitely playing hardball on the process, which makes me nervous about his willingness to sign an extension once he hits UFA.

If he is not extended before arbitration, I doubt he re-signs as a UFA. It is hard to gauge the situation because I don't know how much of a gap there is between the parties involved.

Hopefully, things get sorted out before then and he signs here but if not, I do not see him returning. It would be in our best interest to take a step back this season and just move him out since he is still under a team-controlled contract.

 

[Irie]

If he is not extended before arbitration, I doubt he re-signs as a UFA. It is hard to gauge the situation because I don't know how much of a gap there is between the parties involved.

Hopefully, things get sorted out before then and he signs here but if not, I do not see him returning. It would be in our best interest to take a step back this season and just move him out since he is still under a team-controlled contract.

I think it would totally depend on the return. I believe I am higher on Dunn than most around here because I see a kid with skill that always competes and hates losing. I don't think his play drops off and I think he is just a late bloomer.

As I previously stated, sounds like ownership may be tying Francis' hands here a bit. They are all in on the NBA franchise, and with Silver's comments yesterday, it sure sounds like Vegas is all but a shoo--in to be chosen and Seattle is now in competition with a few other cities. That bodes poorly for the slow and steady "build it right" philosophy that many of us felt was the path to success.

Feels like a playoffs or bust scenario, which usually leads to panic moves.

 

[majormajor]

If he is not extended before arbitration, I doubt he re-signs as a UFA.

Help me understand here. When you say " as a UFA" do you mean next summer? Can't he be extended during the year? Good players, including top pair D, rarely make it to UFA, they get signed or signed/traded.

That and it seems more plausible to me that the reason Dunn isn't signed yet is because they haven't offered him #1D money. If they offer that during the season, do you have any reason to expect that he won't take it? The pessimism just seems out of control.

As I previously stated, sounds like ownership may be tying Francis' hands here a bit. They are all in on the NBA franchise, and with Silver's comments yesterday, it sure sounds like Vegas is all but a shoo--in to be chosen and Seattle is now in competition with a few other cities. That bodes poorly for the slow and steady "build it right" philosophy that many of us felt was the path to success.

Feels like a playoffs or bust scenario, which usually leads to panic moves.

They have done absolutely nothing that looks like playoff or bust. Their moves are remarkably patient, and I think far too passive actually. This came up on the pdocast recently where Dmitri and the guest both agreed that Seattle could have made some big moves - they had the assets and the cap space - and did nothing except fill out with replacement level players. It feels like "nothing ventured nothing gained" is the motto around here and I don't like it.