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Speculation: Searching for the #2 Defenseman

  • Thread starter Thread starter Kessley Snipes*
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Kessley Snipes*

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Dion Phaneuf is a top pairing Defenseman.

Then we have Holzer, Kostka, Gunnarson, Franson, Fraser; followed by Liles and Komisarek

Carlyle has been highly criticized this year for playing Kostka and Holzer with Phaneuf as they are clearly out of their element. Our "educated" fan base believes these players are terrible, when in reality they are 4/5/6 guys playing top pairing minutes.

The real issue doesnt reside in the play of Holzer, Kostka etc., but rather the lack of another dependable top pairing defenseman.

The question becomes whether or not Jake Gardiner is that guy, or if we need to look outside the organization until Morgan Reilly is ready.

Our Defense could look like this:
Phaneuf-Gardiner
Gunnarson-Kostka
Fraser-Franson
 
Kessley Snipes said:
Dion Phaneuf is a top pairing Defenseman.

Then we have Holzer, Kostka, Gunnarson, Franson, Fraser; followed by Liles and Komisarek

Carlyle has been highly criticized this year for playing Kostka and Holzer with Phaneuf as they are clearly out of their element. Our "educated" fan base believes these players are terrible, when in reality they are 4/5/6 guys playing top pairing minutes.

The real issue doesnt reside in the play of Holzer, Kostka etc., but rather the lack of another dependable top pairing defenseman.

The question becomes whether or not Jake Gardiner is that guy, or if we need to look outside the organization until Morgan Reilly is ready.

Our Defense could look like this:
Phaneuf-Gardiner
Gunnarson-Kostka
Fraser-Franson
Click to expand...

we're best off rolling a combo of rielly, gardiner and Phaneuf instead of going out and getting a legit #2 guy. The market for blueliners in UFA is expensive, and most of them aren't worth it.
 
So drop Holzer and recall Gardiner?

Couldn't this go into one of the other 3 lineup threads?
 
i've always wondered how a guy like zbynek michalek would look next to phaneuf. A capable, top-4, stay at home defenseman who would allow phaneuf to take a few more risks. Similar to the role aulie played a few years ago
 
egd27 said:
So drop Holzer and recall Gardiner?

Couldn't this go into one of the other 3 lineup threads?
Click to expand...

Ya, and him even suggesting to look outside the organization for another high caliber d-man is laughable.
 
we definitely have a need for a solid reliable 20 + minute right handed defensmen.


Phaneuf - ??????
Gardiner - Gunnarson/Kostka/Holzer
Fraser - Franson
 
Eb said:
Ya, and him even suggesting to look outside the organization for another high caliber d-man is laughable.
Click to expand...

not really, at all. Gunnarson, Holzer, Kostka etc are solid guys but they're not guys I want playing 20 + minutes to be honest. We can live with it for now how ever. We definitely have a lot of depth though.
 
Eb said:
Ya, and him even suggesting to look outside the organization for another high caliber d-man is laughable.
Click to expand...

I don't know WHY people don't get this, Phaneuf and Gardiner don't jive together! Phaneuf is an OD who loves to take chances whether it be a rush or bit hit, he NEEDS a defensive defencmen next to him at all times. Gardiner is NOT a shutdown D, he's an offensive blueliner he would not thrive in the shutdown role. We need to get another top pairing D who is solid and reliable in his own end, someone who will actually stay in his own end and can play 25ish minutes a night, currently we DONT have a guy like that in the organization.
 
Eb said:
Ya, and him even suggesting to look outside the organization for another high caliber d-man is laughable.
Click to expand...

Oh please. The only thing laughable is your contribution :laugh:
 
Bozak said:
not really, at all. Gunnarson, Holzer, Kostka etc are solid guys but they're not guys I want playing 20 + minutes to be honest. We can live with it for now how ever. We definitely have a lot of depth though.
Click to expand...

You just proved my point.

Kingstonian84 said:
I don't know WHY people don't get this, Phaneuf and Gardiner don't jive together! Phaneuf is an OD who loves to take chances whether it be a rush or bit hit, he NEEDS a defensive defencmen next to him at all times. Gardiner is NOT a shutdown D, he's an offensive blueliner he would not thrive in the shutdown role. We need to get another top pairing D who is solid and reliable in his own end, someone who will actually stay in his own end and can play 25ish minutes a night, currently we DONT have a guy like that in the organization.
Click to expand...

Now is NOT the time to be trading picks and prospects for a #2 D. Yes, I can agree Gards is not the best fit but it's way to early to decide to go after a #2. Holzer has played 20 games so far in the NHL. Kostka has looked decent with Phaneuf. We have Percy, Ranger that will try to make a jump in the next couple years. Damn, I forgot about Gunnar too. Coming off injury. #2 d-man is least of worries. If the opportunity presents itself down the road, then sure.

Kessley Snipes said:
Oh please. The only thing laughable is your contribution :laugh:
Click to expand...

Nonis will agree with me. Thank goodness you aren't GM.
 
Carlyle is showing he wants Phaneuf on the left side and I agree with the move because it helps him from making the big defensive blunders by getting beat to the outside.

Gardiner, Gunnarson, Liles, Rielly and Ranger are also all best suited to the left side.

So yeah we need to look outside for a legitimate top 4 minute Dman who can play the right side.

If Ranger signs with us for next year I think Gunnarson is that top trade chip to help us get that player.
 
Eb said:
Nonis will agree with me. Thank goodness you aren't GM.
Click to expand...

Because teams should NEVER look outside the organization to solve their issues. That is how good General Managers work.

It's almost as if you've never paid attention. :laugh:
 
I think our defence right now is the least of our worries. Liles and Komisarek sitting in the press box, Gardiner waiting on the farm. Even with injuries, we're looking quite dandy.

We need another top-flight forward, preferably a center (there's only one slated to be available). I would happily settle for Corey Perry.
 
Kessley Snipes said:
Dion Phaneuf is a top pairing Defenseman.

Then we have Holzer, Kostka, Gunnarson, Franson, Fraser; followed by Liles and Komisarek

Carlyle has been highly criticized this year for playing Kostka and Holzer with Phaneuf as they are clearly out of their element. Our "educated" fan base believes these players are terrible, when in reality they are 4/5/6 guys playing top pairing minutes.

The real issue doesnt reside in the play of Holzer, Kostka etc., but rather the lack of another dependable top pairing defenseman.

The question becomes whether or not Jake Gardiner is that guy, or if we need to look outside the organization until Morgan Reilly is ready.

Our Defense could look like this:
Phaneuf-Gardiner
Gunnarson-Kostka
Fraser-Franson
Click to expand...


It surprises me that this thread is made just after Holzer signed an extension and he is still left off the list
 
Leafs87 said:
It surprises me that this thread is made just after Holzer signed an extension and he is still left off the list
Click to expand...

I wonder who would be more valuable to the team. Holzer at ~$800k or Fraser at $1.5-2m? I know who i'd pick and it's not even close.
 
Leafs87 said:
It surprises me that this thread is made just after Holzer signed an extension and he is still left off the list
Click to expand...

Kostka/Holzer are interchangeable in my opinion. Should have made that clear.
 
We could explore trade options to upgrade our D.

Or, try Gunnar-Phaneuf pairing like last year?
 
SpeakerForTheDead said:
I would love Carlson out of Washington but I doubt they trade him. A big right-handed dman that plays 20+ mins a night. I think he would do well beside Dion.
Click to expand...

It's like you knew what I was thinking and wrote it down before I could. But I'm also remembering people say that Phaneuf plays better on his left side.
 
Kessley Snipes said:
Kostka/Holzer are interchangeable in my opinion. Should have made that clear.
Click to expand...

might have helped :laugh:

Kostka never really impressed me he's so simple, but he still makes mistakes sometimes which would cancel out the notion of "he plays best when you don't notice him". He isn't a PK whiz and the PP is clearly not suited for him. He's kind of like a poor mans Gunnarsson.
 
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