Proposal: Seattle & Montreal: Guhle + Calgary 1st for Matty Beniers + 2nd (Toronto)

[KrakenSabresMike]

Hummm,

Did I mentioned that Seattle, drafting 6th right now, are in a position to draft one of the very good young centers available at this year's draft.

For sure they'll be one of Frondell, Desnoyers, O'Brien or even McQueen (listed as a center by some) available for them.

Anyway, probably that this trade proposal would happen at the draft, if it would have to happen.

Just sayin'

Seattles ownership has no desire to turf 3 seasons until that player drafted 6th is breaking their way into the NHL. That pick is irrelevant for the current t team trading legit long term pieces off it next year

 

[Benstheman]

Seattle says no.

Habs says Hell no.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Beniers is what Suzuki was.

Absolutely ridiculous reaction from Habs fans regarding this trade, but not surprising.

At 21 years Suzuki had 41 points in 56 games in a shortened season. At 22 years old he had 61 points in 82 games.

Beniers had 37 at 21 (full season) and 39 right now at 22 years old.


What are you on about? They’re far, far from being the same

 

[Benstheman]

Beniers while being a good center, is not what the Habs are looking for, like Cozens was not what they needed.

We've been there with projects.

Also Guhle is going nowhere. He is captain material and the kind of man that you need to wins in the playoffs.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

At 21 years Suzuki had 41 points in 56 games in a shortened season. At 22 years old he had 61 points in 82 games.

Beniers had 37 at 21 (full season) and 39 right now at 22 years old.


What are you on about? They’re far, far from being the same

At 22, Suzuki was playing primarily with Caufield and Anderson, and had 38 ES Points over 82 games.

At 22, Beniers is playing with Schwartz and Kakko and has 31 ES points in 71 games (36 in 82 pace).

The difference is that Beniers doesn't score as much on the PP, which could definitely be a function of the team more than the individual.

 

[DaPhazz]

Neat. Every GM in the league is trading Guhle for Beniers simply from an asset standpoint.

A defensive minded LHD returns very little in comparison to a defensive minded C who has proven he can score 57 pts in the league.

Ok now, from an asset standpoint, I don't see Beniers improving so much. No interested in trading an improving asset for him at this point.

 

[bcv]

Habs fans should just take the no and leave it alone

We're the ones saying no.

 

[kihei]

Our supposed centre depth is more illusion than reality. Catton hasn't played a game in the NHL yet, and Wright is only this year coming into his own, while Stephenson has had an up-and-down year for us so far. I am not opposed to dangling Beniers, but it would be a very risky move at present. If he did get traded, I would hope it would be for someone who can bring more offensive skill to our top six forwards.

 

[samsagat]

Our supposed centre depth is more illusion than reality. Catton hasn't played a game in the NHL yet, and Wright is only this year coming into his own, while Stephenson has had an up-and-down year for us so far. I am not opposed to dangling Beniers, but it would be a very risky move at present. If he did get traded, I would hope it would be for someone who can bring more offensive skill to our top six forwards.

Well, stats are telling another story.

As of now Seattle have a middle of the pack offense (213 gs = 14th) while having a subpar defense (232 ga = 26th).

Plus Seattle's LD is composed of :

Dunn
Oleksiak
Mahura
??

And there's nothing really good in the system...

Anyway... You're entitled to your opinion but it's always better to have an opinion based on facts than mere impressions ..

 

[HuGo Sham]

At 22, Suzuki was playing primarily with Caufield and Anderson, and had 38 ES Points over 82 games.

At 22, Beniers is playing with Schwartz and Kakko and has 31 ES points in 71 games (36 in 82 pace).

The difference is that Beniers doesn't score as much on the PP, which could definitely be a function of the team more than the individual.

the Suzuki disrespect continues to be as expected, stupidly absurd

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Well, stats are telling another story.

As of now Seattle have a middle of the pack offense (213 gs = 14th) while having a subpar defense (232 ga = 26th).

Plus Seattle's LD is composed of :

Dunn
Oleksiak
Mahura
??

And there's nothing really good in the system...

Anyway... You're entitled to your opinion but it's always better to have an opinion based on facts than mere impressions ..

Your response doesn't really counter @kihei's opinion on what the Kraken currently need. Their opinion is 100% correct in my opinion, which is based on me having watching just about every minute of every Kraken game this year (and since they came into the league).

We need impact forwards. That's our first, second, and third needs right now.

What "facts" are you using other than GF and GA totals, the latter of which being highly determined on what goaltenders we have chosen to roll out there? "Stats tell another story" but not if you attempt to mislead with the wrong stats (and I'll grant that providing two numbers does meet the bare minimum requirement of "providing statistics", but it's not being done well.)

 

[MoneyManny]

Beniers is what Suzuki was.

Absolutely ridiculous reaction from Habs fans regarding this trade, but not surprising.

What? Hell no, Beniers is Suzuki-lite.

 

[MoneyManny]

At 22, Suzuki was playing primarily with Caufield and Anderson, and had 38 ES Points over 82 games.

At 22, Beniers is playing with Schwartz and Kakko and has 31 ES points in 71 games (36 in 82 pace).

The difference is that Beniers doesn't score as much on the PP, which could definitely be a function of the team more than the individual.

Ah yes, ES points are his own skills on display but PP points are a function of the team more than the individual... Can you please enlighten me on how this makes any sense?

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

the Suzuki disrespect continues to be as expected, stupidly absurd

Two questions -

How is looking at ES points absurd?

How is saying "Beniers is pretty good too" disrespectful to Suzuki?

 

[Baksfamous112]

At 22, Suzuki was playing primarily with Caufield and Anderson, and had 38 ES Points over 82 games.

At 22, Beniers is playing with Schwartz and Kakko and has 31 ES points in 71 games (36 in 82 pace).

The difference is that Beniers doesn't score as much on the PP, which could definitely be a function of the team more than the individual.

Are you implying that Beniers has lesser talent right now to play with than Suzuki did at the time because I don't think it's even remotely close. Suzuki was alone on an island during his 22 years old season. Not only is Beniers playing on a much better team filled with better talent than Suzuki did at the time but the season is not even over yet. Montreal had 5 players with 30+ points while Seattle currently has 9+ with 11 games left to play.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Ah yes, ES points are his own skills on display but PP points are a function of the team more than the individual... Can you please enlighten me on how this makes any sense?

When Suzuki was 22, he was literally the best player on the roster, so the PP went through him.

Beniers is 22, and the Kraken PP doesn't need to run through him, because they actually have other roster players who are at least as good as a 22 year old Beniers. As a result, it's a PP by committee, instead of Beniers getting as many chances as possible because he's their only hope.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Two questions -

How is looking at ES points absurd?

How is saying "Beniers is pretty good too" disrespectful to Suzuki?

That wasn’t what the debate was all about. The guy said Beniers is equal to what Suzuki was when he was 22, which he isn’t.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Are you implying that Beniers has lesser talent right now to play with than Suzuki did at the time because I don't think it's even remotely close. Suzuki was alone on an island during his 22 years old season. Not only is Beniers playing on a much better team filled with better talent than Suzuki did at the time but the season is not even over yet. Montreal had 5 players with 30+ points while Seattle currently has 9+ with 11 games left to play.

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Being alone on an islands means you're out there for all the best chances. Being part of a committee means you're not going to get every great opportunity for yourself.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

That wasn’t what the debate was all about. The guy said Beniers is equal to what Suzuki was when he was 22, which he isn’t.

He is scoring roughly the same number of points at ES as Suzuki did, which would seem to suggest he might be.

 

[MoneyManny]

When Suzuki was 22, he was literally the best player on the roster, so the PP went through him.

Beniers is 22, and the Kraken PP doesn't need to run through him, because they actually have other roster players who are at least as good as a 22 year old Beniers. As a result, it's a PP by committee, instead of Beniers getting as many chances as possible because he's their only hope.

I'm confused. So Suzuki was the very best on his team, 1st option, while Beniers isn't a top option on his and it's supposed to make Beniers look good when Suzuki outproduced him?

Shouldn't he get way more points in a "PP by committee" than Suzuki when he's by himself carrying the entire team with nobody to play off of?

I think you may be arguing in favor of Suzuki, in which case i agree 100%.

 

[Rob Sense]

Being alone on an islands means you're out there for all the best chances. Being part of a committee means you're not going to get every great opportunity for yourself.

better players rise to top of team scoring.

 

[Grinner]

We're the ones saying no.

Has there been 1 Seattle fan who said yes?

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Has there been 1 Seattle fan who said yes?

I haven't seen a single Seattle fan say yes in the thread (which was started by a Montreal fan).

 

[HabsMD97]

At 22, Suzuki was playing primarily with Caufield and Anderson, and had 38 ES Points over 82 games.

At 22, Beniers is playing with Schwartz and Kakko and has 31 ES points in 71 games (36 in 82 pace).

The difference is that Beniers doesn't score as much on the PP, which could definitely be a function of the team more than the individual.

So they got the exact same production from their linemates at even strength?
at 22:
Suzuki: 1.69 5v5 pts/60
Beniers: 1.44 5v5 pts/60

Suzuki produced a lot more at 5v5 and also is much better on the PP
This year Seattle's PP is 19.4%
in 21-22 MTL had a PP% of.....13.7%
To say the difference in production btw the 2 is a function of the team is quite laughable lol.

On a WAY worse PP, Suzuki produced 4.75 pts/60
Beniers is at 2.74

To get back on topic, I like Beniers, but to say he is worth way more than Guhle(22yr old #2 D) and a top 15 pick is insane. I understand Seattle isn't looking for D, but value is fair, although I still wouldn't do it as a habs fan. I think what Seattle needs to is a cozens for norris type swap smth like Zegras for Beniers.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Being alone on an islands means you're out there for all the best chances. Being part of a committee means you're not going to get every great opportunity for yourself.

The length at which you went to do some insane mental gymnastic is impressive here. Well done