Proposal: SEA - EDM Part II

[TFHockey]

Carson Soucy 27, LHD ($2.75 Million AAV for this year and next, then UFA)
Mason Appleton 25, C ($900,000 AAV last year and then RFA)

Total $$$ coming in: $3.65 Million



Kyle Turris 32,C/RW ($1.65 Million AAV last year and then UFA)
William Lagesson 25 LHD ($725,000 AAV this year then RFA)
Derek Ryan 35 C ($1.25 Million AAV this year and next, then UFA)

Oilers 2022 1st, 2023 2nd, Raphael Lavoie (21 year old RW/C prospect)

Total $$$ coming in: $3.65 Million

Seattle gets good value for two good players. Take on really cheap and short term contracts along with a decent bottom pairing cheap D man and a good prospect. Oilers improve in two positions they really need to.

Not the entire fix for Edmonton, but a start in the right direction.

Click to read more...

 

[ManofSteel55]

Edmonton probably would have to add a little something else. Soucy is likely worth the 1st, Appleton may not be worth the 2nd but they would ask for it. So then it's one defenseman with marginal value that Seattle likely doesn't need in Lagesson, and two guys who aren't earning their pay even if the pay is marginal.

 

[Empoleon8771]

This is much better than the 1st attempt, but I'd almost argue that the Oilers are giving up too much here

If I'm dangling a package like a 1st, 2nd and Lavoie to get an upgrade, I'd personally rather go for quality over quantity. A good #4/5D and a good bottom-6 forward for that package just feels underwhelming, even if it's reasonable in value.

The Oilers may be different because they have so much top end talent already, where they're better off targeting multiple good pieces instead of 1 great piece, but that's just IMO on trading valuable packages like that.

 

[TFHockey]

Edmonton probably would have to add a little something else. Soucy is likely worth the 1st, Appleton may not be worth the 2nd but they would ask for it. So then it's one defenseman with marginal value that Seattle likely doesn't need in Lagesson, and two guys who aren't earning their pay even if the pay is marginal.

I don't think Edmonton adds here. I thought I was giving up too much in this deal, but Holland needs to make some kid of trade to fix this team. Soucy plays in our 2nd pairing, bumping Keith to the 3rd pairing. That is what I want to see.

Appleton plays 3C in this scenario.

After this Holland needs a 1A goalie, maybe one more RHD (Barrie gets shipped out in that trade) and a RW. I think maybe then we have something.

 

[russ99]

Turris won't be in a trade, the Oilers save half his cap space burying him in the minors and he's a UFA at the end of the year.

I also wouldn't trade the first rounder in this deal, Soucy has value but he's maybe 2nd pair D for us. Maybe a better defensive prospect than Lagesson (not Broberg) and another future 2nd gets it done.

 

[TFHockey]

Turris won't be in a trade, the Oilers save half his cap space burying him in the minors and he's a UFA at the end of the year.

I also wouldn't trade the first rounder in this deal, Soucy has value but he's maybe 2nd pair D for us. Maybe a better defensive prospect and another future 2nd gets it done.

So like Samorukov instead of Lavoie and a 2nd instead of a 1st?

 

[Mrfenn92]

Like the deal for seattle

 

[GOilers88]

So like Samorukov instead of Lavoie and a 2nd instead of a 1st?

I suggested Soucy for Samo + 2nd and wasn't ridiculed out of my shoes, so I think it could be fair.

Not sure about Appleton. At this point I think Edmonton should be willing to send out whatever picks they need to in the next two drafts to get some players in and out. Whoever they draft now isn't going to help until they're looking at the new McDrai contracts if they even stay anyways. Consider the return you get as the players you drafted only you don't have to wait for them to develop.

 

[YP44]

Seattle should definitely do this

 

[ManofSteel55]

I don't think Edmonton adds here. I thought I was giving up too much in this deal, but Holland needs to make some kid of trade to fix this team. Soucy plays in our 2nd pairing, bumping Keith to the 3rd pairing. That is what I want to see.

Appleton plays 3C in this scenario.

After this Holland needs a 1A goalie, maybe one more RHD (Barrie gets shipped out in that trade) and a RW. I think maybe then we have something.

I agree with your reasoning, I just don't see how we can get that price on those guys when Soucy and Appleton alone are worth the picks. We're expecting them to take Ryan and Turris for the benefit of getting Lagesson? I just don't think that's enough.

 

[McJedi]

Carson Soucy 27, LHD ($2.75 Million AAV for this year and next, then UFA)
Mason Appleton 25, C ($900,000 AAV last year and then RFA)

Total $$$ coming in: $3.65 Million



Kyle Turris 32,C/RW ($1.65 Million AAV last year and then UFA)
William Lagesson 25 LHD ($725,000 AAV this year then RFA)
Derek Ryan 35 C ($1.25 Million AAV this year and next, then UFA)

Oilers 2022 1st, 2023 2nd, Raphael Lavoie (21 year old RW/C prospect)

Total $$$ coming in: $3.65 Million

Seattle gets good value for two good players. Take on really cheap and short term contracts along with a decent bottom pairing cheap D man and a good prospect. Oilers improve in two positions they really need to.

Not the entire fix for Edmonton, but a start in the right direction.

This seems pretty reasonable and fair. And pretty extensive which adds to the difficulty.

Well done.

I think it would help Edmonton this season and Seattle would definitely consider it as a futures move.

 

[TFHockey]

This seems pretty reasonable and fair. And pretty extensive which adds to the difficulty.

Well done.

I find these hard to make fair, which is why I had to take a 2nd crack at it.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

This is reasonable. I think you can take out the 2nd.

 

[T_Cage]

Seems reasonable. Edmonton might be giving up a little much, but I think downgrading the 1st would lose the appeal for Seattle

maybe change the 2nd to a 3rd or 4th?

 

[McJedi]

I find these hard to make fair, which is why I had to take a 2nd crack at it.

It addresses needs or goals for both teams. Goals that make sense for where those teams are today.

It’s not one of the countless one sided proposals we normally see. Or one that only considers the OPs team needs. Each side gives value to get value.

these are hard to make. I bet you’ll get grief from both fan bases, which means you’re close.

I think you could reduce the Edmonton second to a 3rd.

 

[HoseEmDown]

What would it take to switch Lavoie for Savoie?

The value as is for Seattle is fair in a vacuum, there's just no reason to do the deal unless it's a huge overpayment. Soucy and Appleton are 27 and 25, signed for another season with Appleton still being a RFA. They both could be part of the Seattle core for a few seasons, so to pry them would take more. Seattle is more likely to move UFA's like Jankrok, Johansson and Giordano and then retool the team in the offseason. I think they see themselves as a playoff team next year if they can get solid goaltending, they aren't ready to tear it down. So trading two players in sorta their prime age isn't a good step towards that.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

What would it take to switch Lavoie for Savoie?

The value as is for Seattle is fair in a vacuum, there's just no reason to do the deal unless it's a huge overpayment. Soucy and Appleton are 27 and 25, signed for another season with Appleton still being a RFA. They both could be part of the Seattle core for a few seasons, so to pry them would take more. Seattle is more likely to move UFA's like Jankrok, Johansson and Giordano and then retool the team in the offseason. I think they see themselves as a playoff team next year if they can get solid goaltending, they aren't ready to tear it down. So trading two players in sorta their prime age isn't a good step towards that.

If I'm Edmonton I hang onto Savoie (and Petrov) unless someone pries them from my cold dead hands. Those two in particular look like diamonds in the rough.

Lavoie is extremely hot and cold. He's gone three weeks without a point and then exploded for a five point game in the same month.

 

[TFHockey]

What would it take to switch Lavoie for Savoie?

The value as is for Seattle is fair in a vacuum, there's just no reason to do the deal unless it's a huge overpayment. Soucy and Appleton are 27 and 25, signed for another season with Appleton still being a RFA. They both could be part of the Seattle core for a few seasons, so to pry them would take more. Seattle is more likely to move UFA's like Jankrok, Johansson and Giordano and then retool the team in the offseason. I think they see themselves as a playoff team next year if they can get solid goaltending, they aren't ready to tear it down. So trading two players in sorta their prime age isn't a good step towards that.

Stop right there. Too many posters won't do a deal unless it is a "huge overpayment" and that rarely happens in the NHL.

Seattle made some critical mistakes in the expansion draft IMHO. They tried to build an instant competitor like Vegas did. The problem, as I stated in a previous Seattle thread, is that GMs were ready for them this time around. The result is a bottom feeding team going nowhere that doesn't have a stockpile of picks to build from. I do not see them as a playoff team next year at all. At. All.

This trade helps a bit in that regard. Appleton and Soucy aren't going to help this team into the playoffs. That isn't Seattle's trajectory. Acquiring picks and prospects is the right thing to do, again in my opinion, to build long term success for the Kraken. The Oilers shouldn't make a massive overpayment for a 3C and a 2nd pairing LHD. No one should. Asking for one is absurd.

The Oilers are on a very different timeline than the Kraken. They are in win now mode, so giving up a 1st, a 2nd and a good prospect for two players while moving some very cheap and short term contracts is the right move for them.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

It addresses needs or goals for both teams. Goals that make sense for where those teams are today.

It’s not one of the countless one sided proposals we normally see. Or one that only considers the OPs team needs. Each side gives value to get value.

these are hard to make. I bet you’ll get grief from both fan bases, which means you’re close.

I think you could reduce the Edmonton second to a 3rd.

I do like that the proposal was well structured. It fills needs for the Kraken as well as the Oilers.

The 2nd can definitely be conditional. Either based on Oilers making the WCF or re-signing Soucy. If not, it is a 3rd or 4th. I genuinely have no interest in moving Appleton but the team is in a desperate need to top-end talent and some prospects on ELC. Savoie (once signed) would give us both. The 1st round pick (though it would be a late one) would give us a chance to add some talent as well.

Ron Francis knows more about where this team is at now than he did before. Trading Gio @ 50% retention could potentially net us another 1st round pick. 3 1st round picks in the 2022 draft, including a potential top-5 one of our own, could do wonders to inject some much needed talent on this team and make it competitive around the 2023 or 2024 season.

All that being said, I don't know if a trade like this would actually happen. There are a lot of moving parts and I am not sure if trades like this would actually take place.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Stop right there. Too many posters won't do a deal unless it is a "huge overpayment" and that rarely happens in the NHL.

Seattle made some critical mistakes in the expansion draft IMHO. They tried to build an instant competitor like Vegas did. The problem, as I stated in a previous Seattle thread, is that GMs were ready for them this time around. The result is a bottom feeding team going nowhere that doesn't have a stockpile of picks to build from. I do not see them as a playoff team next year at all. At. All.

This trade helps a bit in that regard. Appleton and Soucy aren't going to help this team into the playoffs. That isn't Seattle's trajectory. Acquiring picks and prospects is the right thing to do, again in my opinion, to build long term success for the Kraken. The Oilers shouldn't make a massive overpayment for a 3C and a 2nd pairing LHD. No one should. Asking for one is absurd.

The Oilers are on a very different timeline than the Kraken. They are in win now mode, so giving up a 1st, a 2nd and a good prospect for two players while moving some very cheap and short term contracts is the right move for them.

Yes it does but not to the degree your thinking. Look at the Coleman and Goodrow trades from a few years ago. Neither team had any intention of trading either of those players as they were cheap and signed for another season. Tampa came to the table and made them offers they couldn't refuse and the trades were made. Edmonton would need to do similar.

Seattle is a bottom team because of bottom of the league goaltending. Not sure if it's system or player issue. The team around them isn't as good as Vegas, who were gifted good players, but should be enough to challenge for a playoff spot. If they get league average goaltending they could be much closer to a middle of the pack team who could be looking to add a piece instead of being a seller.

Seattle trading guys in their mid 20's for picks is a foolish way to go. Soucy and Appleton are useful now and will be next year, Seattle isn't going into a rebuild already so no need to move anything but players who don't have a contract next year. A 2nd in 2023 does Seattle no good trying to ice a competitive team, which is still their goal. And if they were going for the rebuild mode and looking for futures then the likes of Eberle, Donskoi and Larsson would be on the table, guys closer to 30.

 

[TGWL]

This is just sad... Oilers really have Turris and Ryan in the bottom 6?

 

[Beerfish]

Sounds like a Holland special.

Spends all off season 'upgrading D and bottom 6' at a huge cost of resources.

half way through the season has to cough up more truck loads of resources to do the same thing all the while totally ignoring goaltending.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Yes it does but not to the degree your thinking. Look at the Coleman and Goodrow trades from a few years ago. Neither team had any intention of trading either of those players as they were cheap and signed for another season. Tampa came to the table and made them offers they couldn't refuse and the trades were made. Edmonton would need to do similar.

The return for Goodrow was something that surprised a lot of Sharks fans. Didn't really expect him to return a 1st. I think a player like Soucy could fall in that category for a team desperate in need of a good D-man.

Seattle trading guys in their mid 20's for picks is a foolish way to go. Soucy and Appleton are useful now and will be next year, Seattle isn't going into a rebuild already so no need to move anything but players who don't have a contract next year. A 2nd in 2023 does Seattle no good trying to ice a competitive team, which is still their goal. And if they were going for the rebuild mode and looking for futures then the likes of Eberle, Donskoi and Larsson would be on the table, guys closer to 30.

I don't think trading Soucy or Appleton should be seen as a rebuild. It is more about maximizing assets obtained during the expansion draft to get some real talent on the team. Appleton and Soucy are good players which is why they can garner good returns but I am not sure if both of them are expected to be part of the core when the team gets competitive. Atleast, I don't think Soucy is. Appleton would be a bigger loss but Savoie coming our way could offset that loss and potentially align better when the timeline of this team getting competitive (another 2-3 years atleast).

And yeah, Eberle and Donskoi should most definitely be on the table for trades too. I would simply keep Larsson around though because he has been solid defensively and I don't expect him to be bad through the duration of his contract.

 

[TFHockey]

Sounds like a Holland special.

Spends all off season 'upgrading D and bottom 6' at a huge cost of resources.

half way through the season has to cough up more truck loads of resources to do the same thing all the while totally ignoring goaltending.

Goaltending is addressed in another trade. Lots of threads about that already.

 

[Boondock]

HFBoards in a nutshell - A well thought out proposal that has fair value and meets 2 teams needs. Been up on the main board since 7:30am - 24 responses
Nick Ritchie gets waives went on the main board just before noon - 7 pages of responses........