Blue Jays Discussion: Save some runs for the other games, guys. (Jays score team record 28 runs in Friday night drubbing of Red Sox. Yes, that says 28. In one game)

[LeafChief]

It's crazy that Pearson was supposed to be what Manoah is now. Hopefully he can figure it out because it would be nuts to have two of these guys going.

 

[Eyedea]

What I mean is the Jays already have a great offence, just like the Leafs had a great offense. They don't need to improve it adding a great offensive player. The Leafs needed a better D, Jays need a better Pen.

If you had to choose, you can't do both, upgrade with Soto or add a couple premier bullpen arms. I'm taking the pen.

I keep hearing people mention improving the 5th starter too. I wouldn't it's irrelevant for a playoff run, just like the 5th starters were last time the Jays had a deep run. If you want to do like a David Price type improvement that ok, you're improving on your staff ace, don't bother getting a better version of Chicken Strips.

Buerhle wasn't on the 2015 playoff roster (was 5th starter) and Dickey wasn't on the 2016 playoff roster (was 5th starter).

If you can improve the team, you improve it. I can’t believe people consider a top 3 hitter a luxury item.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

What I mean is the Jays already have a great offence, just like the Leafs had a great offense. They don't need to improve it adding a great offensive player. The Leafs needed a better D, Jays need a better Pen.

If you had to choose, you can't do both, upgrade with Soto or add a couple premier bullpen arms. I'm taking the pen.

I keep hearing people mention improving the 5th starter too. I wouldn't it's irrelevant for a playoff run, just like the 5th starters were last time the Jays had a deep run. If you want to do like a David Price type improvement that ok, you're improving on your staff ace, don't bother getting a better version of Chicken Strips.

Buerhle wasn't on the 2015 playoff roster (was 5th starter) and Dickey wasn't on the 2016 playoff roster (was 5th starter).

Saying you wouldn't trade for Soto so we could improve the bullpen is like saying you wouldn't take Mackinnon because it could make our 4th line worse. If you can get the best hitter in the game...you just do it.

 

[canucksfan]

It's crazy that Pearson was supposed to be what Manoah is now. Hopefully he can figure it out because it would be nuts to have two of these guys going.

At best, Pearson will be a bullpen arm.

 

[ER89]

Here's a crazy thought

Instead of blowing all of our assets on Soto, why not offer to trade directly for Corbin's contract.

We could trade them someone like Beasley and ask for some of their better prospects to not have to pay Corbin any more.

why would we want that? We're trying to compete not gain a prospect.

Why would they want that? They're trying to rebuild and get prospects.

?

 

[canucksfan]

 

[weems]

Detroit says they'd be willing to deal Skubal and Miami willing to trade anyone outside of Alcantara.

 

[stats1]

Detroit says they'd be willing to deal Skubal and Miami willing to trade anyone outside of Alcantara.

Pablo Lopez please.

 

[MAB1]

What I mean is the Jays already have a great offence, just like the Leafs had a great offense. They don't need to improve it adding a great offensive player. The Leafs needed a better D, Jays need a better Pen.

If you had to choose, you can't do both, upgrade with Soto or add a couple premier bullpen arms. I'm taking the pen.

I keep hearing people mention improving the 5th starter too. I wouldn't it's irrelevant for a playoff run, just like the 5th starters were last time the Jays had a deep run. If you want to do like a David Price type improvement that ok, you're improving on your staff ace, don't bother getting a better version of Chicken Strips.

Buerhle wasn't on the 2015 playoff roster (was 5th starter) and Dickey wasn't on the 2016 playoff roster (was 5th starter).

Any chance you have to improve your team overall by adding a player the caliber of Soto, you do it. The goal is to make your team the best possible, adding Soto does that. And it doesn't stop you from making other teams after. The Leafs needing D wouldn't stop them from acquiring McDavid if he was available and they could have the strongest offer. You acquire elite talent and diversify it as necessary to cover needs.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Soto and the pen wouldn't even take the same assets. Soto you're shipping off a bunch of the top guys and/or a roster guy or 2. If you're trading any of Moreno, Tiedemann, or Orelvis for pen help you're doing it wrong, and Groshans and the next couple guys would need a really good arm with term.

Realistically you're moving stuff from the Horwitz, Irv Carter, Barger, Machado, Samad Taylor bracket of talent for rental pen arms.

Quick quiz: The 3 or 4 years we were bad between the Bautista and Vladdy eras when we traded our pen arms who's the best guy we got back from there? Unless one considers Liriano a pen arm by then(which returned Teo) then the answer is Samad Taylor or Hatch. During that time we traded Joe Smith, Grilli, Loup, Axford, Osuna, Oh, Phelps, Hudson, Biagini, and Sanchez. You don't have to trade anyone good to get a decent pan arm. Usually it's lower level 15-30 prospects which rarely pan out.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Interesting thread from Snider.

 

[Discoverer]

Soto and the pen wouldn't even take the same assets. Soto you're shipping off a bunch of the top guys and/or a roster guy or 2. If you're trading any of Moreno, Tiedemann, or Orelvis for pen help you're doing it wrong, and Groshans and the next couple guys would need a really good arm with term.

Realistically you're moving stuff from the Horwitz, Irv Carter, Barger, Machado, Samad Taylor bracket of talent for rental pen arms.

Quick quiz: The 3 or 4 years we were bad between the Bautista and Vladdy eras when we traded our pen arms who's the best guy we got back from there? Unless one considers Liriano a pen arm by then(which returned Teo) then the answer is Samad Taylor or Hatch. During that time we traded Joe Smith, Grilli, Loup, Axford, Osuna, Oh, Phelps, Hudson, Biagini, and Sanchez. You don't have to trade anyone good to get a decent pan arm. Usually it's lower level 15-30 prospects which rarely pan out.

To be fair, a lot of the talk is about targeting a back of the pen guy with a couple years of control. A guy like Gregory Soto, for example, is on a completely different level value-wise than the guys the Jays traded in those years.

 

[Eyedea]

To be fair, a lot of the talk is about targeting a back of the pen guy with a couple years of control. A guy like Gregory Soto, for example, is on a completely different level value-wise than the guys the Jays traded in those years.

Realistically he’s still not going to command much. Otto Lopez? Maybe Robberse? Probably two middle prospects.

 

[MAB1]

To be fair, a lot of the talk is about targeting a back of the pen guy with a couple years of control. A guy like Gregory Soto, for example, is on a completely different level value-wise than the guys the Jays traded in those years.

Otto Lopez and Nate Pearson covers Gregory Soto according to baseball trade values.

 

[Avilaj07]

The players I think Atkins should go after and shouldn't really deplete our farm system are,

Luis Castillo
David Robertson
Andrew Benintendi

Rotation becomes-
Gausman
Manoah
Castillo
Berrios
Stripling

Bullpen-
Cimber
Mayza
Robertson
Garcia
Romano

 

[Discoverer]

The players I think Atkins should go after and shouldn't really deplete our farm system are,

Luis Castillo
David Robertson
Andrew Benintendi

Rotation becomes-
Gausman
Manoah
Castillo
Berrios
Stripling

Bullpen-
Cimber
Mayza
Robertson
Garcia
Romano

I was never nearly as much of a fan of Benintendi as some people seem to be, but he's also unvaccinated, so not even an option if they do like him.

Otto Lopez and Nate Pearson covers Gregory Soto according to baseball trade values.

That sounds about right.

 

[Avilaj07]

I was never nearly as much of a fan of Benintendi as some people seem to be, but he's also unvaccinated, so not even an option if they do like him.


That sounds about right.

Well we can always go out and sign Conforto instead since he's come out and said he's vaccinated now, and he won't cost any assets

 

[MAB1]

Otto Lopez + Nate Pearson for G. Soto -> Garcia-Soto-Romano is the 7-8-9 trio
Jansen + Groshans + Horwitz for L. Castillo -> Manoah, Gausman, Castillo, Berrios, Stripling and Kirk and Moreno still at the C position.

Still keep Moreno, Tiedmann and Martinez in the farm

The funny thing is they would still have the pieces to get Juan Soto after both those trades rather easily.

 

[McFly2544]

Is Conforto (who hasn’t played all year) really a better option than Gurriel, Teo or Kirk? Ultimately that’s one of the spots he’d be taking

im not sure we even need a bat…maybe a guy like Happ to spell Zimmer or Collins off the roster

 

[Discoverer]

Well we can always go out and sign Conforto instead since he's come out and said he's vaccinated now, and he won't cost any assets

Ooooh I didn't know that... that would be fun.

Is Conforto (who hasn’t played all year) really a better option than Gurriel, Teo or Kirk? Ultimately that’s one of the spots he’d be taking

im not sure we even need a bat…maybe a guy like Happ to spell Zimmer or Collins off the roster

If you're not interested in Conforto, why would you be interested in Happ?

 

[McFly2544]

Ooooh I didn't know that... that would be fun.


If you're not interested in Conforto, why would you be interested in Happ?

Conforto hasn’t played all year, Happ also gives you positional flexibility

 

[hockeywiz542]

Tigers willing to trade Tarik Skubal and ‘just about everyone,’ sources say - The Athletic

Early in the season, left-hander Tarik Skubal was perhaps the Tigers’ biggest bright spot, producing a 2.33 ERA in his first 11 starts. He then went through a rough patch for five outings before recovering in his most recent three. Yet, even with several of the Tigers’ other young starters on the injured list, the team is willing to trade him, according to rival executives with multiple clubs.

The Tigers “gave us a blanket that just about everyone is available,” one official said. Another speculated the Tigers are trying to be opportunistic and extract a big return for Skubal from teams that might strike out on the Reds’ Luis Castillo and the Athletics’ Frankie Montas, the best starting pitchers known to be available.

Tigers general manager Al Avila declined comment.

It is hardly a given the Tigers would trade Skubal, considering their own rotation needs as they head toward their sixth straight losing season. But like many teams, they are willing to consider any deal that might help them improve. And they entered Tuesday averaging a major-league low 3.22 runs per game.

The Dodgers, Cardinals and other contenders are not the only teams in the market for starting pitching. Postseason longshots such as the Rangers and Orioles want to add rotation help for 2023 and beyond. The Tigers, thin on everyday position players, could use Skubal and several of their relievers as a vehicle to acquire more talent.

Castillo and Montas, both 29, are under club control through 2023. Skubal, 25, is a year-plus away from qualifying for salary arbitration, and under club control through 2026. And at various points in the future, the Tigers expect their injured young starters — Beau Brieske (arm soreness), Alex Faedo (hip), Matt Manning (shoulder inflammation), and Casey Mize and Spencer Turnbull (both Tommy John surgery) — to return.

If the Tigers do not receive an offer they deem acceptable for Skubal, they still can move several relievers — Andrew Chafin, Michael Fulmer, Joe Jiménez and two-time All-Star closer Gregory Soto. None of their position players would figure to bring a strong return.

 

[shaner8989]

Montoya was fired a year to late and cost them a playoff spot…. But man look how good this team really is. Schneider is awesome. I smell a serious playoff run coming

 

[trellaine201]

Pablo looks pretty decent. How come he hasn’t pitched more than 110 innings a season?

 

[weems]

Nick Frasso dealing again

Thru 3 innings pitched