Blue Jays Discussion: Save some runs for the other games, guys. (Jays score team record 28 runs in Friday night drubbing of Red Sox. Yes, that says 28. In one game)

[Tufted Titmouse]

Yanks fanbase has a lot of chatter about unloading their farm for Juan Soto, and then just signing Judge and letting Soto walk in 2 years if they can't sign him.

Would be a tough pill to swallow as a Jays fan but I still like our direction and our current core. I was on the Soto train before the break, but Martinez and Tiddies keep making it harder and harder to consider making that kind of trade. I like the idea of making "smaller" moves for the SP and pen. WOuld just suck if the Skanks for Soto.

 

[canucksfan]

Looking at the Betts trade, wow did the Sox ever get a bad return.

 

[canucksfan]

I want Gregory Soto for the pen.


Yankees have been playing at .500 for about a month now.

Yankees have a lot of players overachieving. Can Carpenter maintain an ISO of .505?

 

[hockeywiz542]

Potential frontrunner for Juan Soto emerges

The St. Louis Cardinals, who have a bevy of highly regarded young players, are viewed by rivals as a potential frontrunner to land superstar Juan Soto.

nypost.com

The St. Louis Cardinals, who have a bevy of highly regarded young players, are viewed by rivals as a potential front-runner to land superstar Juan Soto.

The Mets and Yankees are among at least a half-dozen teams believed to have checked in. But there is no early sense that either New York team is at the forefront of talks. A few suitors have been told the Nats are focusing on one or two teams at the moment, and some believe the Cardinals are in the group getting early attention. The Mariners are yet another team seen early as having a chance in this derby.

Nats people are declining comment for now, though one NL executive said about the Cardinals’ chances here: “Good farm system.”

The Nats are an organization that relies heavily on scouting, and there’s word they like a lot of the Cardinals’ young players and prospects. The Cardinals line up for what the Nationals want — not just prospects, but young, controllable players already in the majors. Their top young major leaguers include outfielders Dylan Carlson, Harrison Bader and Tyler O’Neill, plus infielders Nolan Gorman and Brendan Donovan. Third baseman Jordan Walker, shortstop Masyn Winn and pitcher Matt Liberatore are among the best prospects in the sport.

The Cardinals have the kind of quality pieces to offer that they would not have to take back a “bad” contract. There are rival teams that believe the Nationals would also like to off-load the contract of Patrick Corbin as part of a deal. Corbin, who is owed $59 million for 2023-24, has a 5.66 ERA in 62 starts since the beginning of the 2020 season.

Soto’s 2022 salary is $17.1 million, and that alone wouldn’t discourage any interested team.

In addition to the Cardinals and the two New York teams, the Dodgers, Padres, Giants and Mariners are among other teams thought to be showing interest. The Post first reported the interest of the two New York teams. Bob Nightengale of USA Today first reported many of the other teams, and suggested a couple days ago they were all due to make bids.

 

[MAB1]

Maybe premature after the series against the Red Sox but if Soto and Ohtani are both on the market, would make more sense for the Jays to unload the farm on the latter. Sure there's 1 less year of control but the prospect of filling the top of the rotation need and lefty power bat to balance the lineup in one player is tantalizing to think about. Also feel like he would be easier to re-sign. Moreno, Tiedmann and Groshans is about equal value on baseball trade values. I'd put up Ohtani-Monoah-Gausman against any 1-3 in baseball, and obviously Berrios and Stripling to round out the rotation.

1. Springer (CF)
2. Vladdy Jr (1B)
3. Ohtani (RF)
4. Kirk (C)
5. Bichette (SS)
6. Hernandez (DH)
7. Gurriel (LF)
8. Chapman (3B)
9. Espinal (2B)

Tapia, Biggio and Jansen for the bench.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Potential frontrunner for Juan Soto emerges

The St. Louis Cardinals, who have a bevy of highly regarded young players, are viewed by rivals as a potential frontrunner to land superstar Juan Soto.

nypost.com

The St. Louis Cardinals, who have a bevy of highly regarded young players, are viewed by rivals as a potential front-runner to land superstar Juan Soto.

The Mets and Yankees are among at least a half-dozen teams believed to have checked in. But there is no early sense that either New York team is at the forefront of talks. A few suitors have been told the Nats are focusing on one or two teams at the moment, and some believe the Cardinals are in the group getting early attention. The Mariners are yet another team seen early as having a chance in this derby.

Nats people are declining comment for now, though one NL executive said about the Cardinals’ chances here: “Good farm system.”

The Nats are an organization that relies heavily on scouting, and there’s word they like a lot of the Cardinals’ young players and prospects. The Cardinals line up for what the Nationals want — not just prospects, but young, controllable players already in the majors. Their top young major leaguers include outfielders Dylan Carlson, Harrison Bader and Tyler O’Neill, plus infielders Nolan Gorman and Brendan Donovan. Third baseman Jordan Walker, shortstop Masyn Winn and pitcher Matt Liberatore are among the best prospects in the sport.

The Cardinals have the kind of quality pieces to offer that they would not have to take back a “bad” contract. There are rival teams that believe the Nationals would also like to off-load the contract of Patrick Corbin as part of a deal. Corbin, who is owed $59 million for 2023-24, has a 5.66 ERA in 62 starts since the beginning of the 2020 season.

Soto’s 2022 salary is $17.1 million, and that alone wouldn’t discourage any interested team.

In addition to the Cardinals and the two New York teams, the Dodgers, Padres, Giants and Mariners are among other teams thought to be showing interest. The Post first reported the interest of the two New York teams. Bob Nightengale of USA Today first reported many of the other teams, and suggested a couple days ago they were all due to make bids.

Soto to St. Louis would be amazing. No AL East, no Dodgers.

Maybe premature after the series against the Red Sox but if Soto and Ohtani are both on the market, would make more sense for the Jays to unload the farm on the latter. Sure there's 1 less year of control but the prospect of filling the top of the rotation need and lefty power bat to balance the lineup in one player is tantalizing to think about. Also feel like he would be easier to re-sign. Moreno, Tiedmann and Groshans is about equal value on baseball trade values. I'd put up Ohtani-Monoah-Gausman against any 1-3 in baseball, and obviously Berrios and Stripling to round out the rotation.

1. Springer (CF)
2. Vladdy Jr (1B)
3. Ohtani (RF)
4. Kirk (C)
5. Bichette (SS)
6. Hernandez (DH)
7. Gurriel (LF)
8. Chapman (3B)
9. Espinal (2B)

Tapia, Biggio and Jansen for the bench.

Ohtani not available according to Twitter

 

[stats1]

Soto to St. Louis would be amazing. No AL East, no Dodgers.


Ohtani not available according to Twitter

Every player is available. It’s just whether a team is willing to meet a price. If the Jays went to the Angels and offered to unload their farm system for Ohtani, my guess would be Angels give in. A lot of deals don’t get made not because it can’t be made it’s just prices not being met or prices being too high. But again my point is every player in sports is available for a price.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Every player is available. It’s just whether a team is willing to meet a price. If the Jays went to the Angels and offered to unload their farm system for Ohtani, my guess would be Angels give in. A lot of deals don’t get made not because it can’t be made it’s just prices not being met or prices being too high. But again my point is every player in sports is available for a price.

Well okay, I meant he's not really being shopped. We could blow the farm and acquire almost any player in the league if we decided to. Ohtani is a bit scary because you pay the guy to be a 2 way threat, but I keep reading people saying they could see him drop pitching in the next 3-5 years. That means to re sign him at 40m, you are paying for something you might not get later.

Not sure if we're the market to take that risk when we could potentially land smaller fish and keep our farm.

I am not sure if it's justified, but I am worried about what Bo is going to expect when it's time to sign him, vs what management will be willing to pay if his bat kind of stagnates. I am not 100% sold on our SS position being locked up long term. Very hesitant to deal Martinez unless it's a Berrios situation where we are almost definitely going to sign that player to an extension.

Anyways, I am not very MLB saavy, I mostly read the more knowledgeable members here and try to learn from them.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[hockeywiz542]

How Blue Jays can address largest roster weaknesses at trade deadline

With the trade deadline just over one week away, Ben Nicholson-Smith looks at the Blue Jays' biggest roster weaknesses and some ways management can address them.

www.sportsnet.ca

Better to add a starting pitcher now, especially because there’s no late-August waiver trade deadline anymore. If you want to acquire help, this is the time.

Because Alek Manoah, Kevin Gausman and Jose Berrios could all be trusted to start playoff games, the Blue Jays aren’t lacking frontline arms. With that in mind, they should determine the availability of pending free agents like Martin Perez, Jose Quintana, Drew Smyly, Chad Kuhl, Noah Syndergaard, and Zack Greinke. It’s not the most exciting group, but it doesn’t have to be.

While Perez and Quintana likely have some real trade value, history tells us that veteran pitch-to-contact types simply don’t command big hauls at the deadline (even Syndergaard, the hardest thrower of this group and someone the Blue Jays pursued last winter, has a below-average strikeout rate). Of the pitchers listed above, Perez may be the best fit as he’s a ground ball pitcher who commands the strike zone reasonably well (14.2 per cent K-BB%).

Regardless, adding a pitcher from this cohort would address a need at the big-league level without meaningfully depleting Toronto’s prospect ranks.

..........................

Now, the need for relief remains as glaring as ever, and this time the Blue Jays must prioritize quality, even if that means paying a higher price. Yes, shopping for something as inherently volatile as relief pitching can backfire, but not adding relief would be an even riskier choice for a team with so much potential.

Among the relievers worth investigating further: Gregory Soto and Joe Jimenez of the Tigers, Joe Mantiply of the Diamondbacks, Jorge Lopez of the Orioles, David Robertson of the Cubs, A.J. Puk of the A’s, Kyle Finnegan of the Nationals, Scott Barlow of the Royals, David Bednar of the Pirates, Matt Bush of the Rangers and Anthony Bass of the Marlins.

The Blue Jays wouldn’t have to give up their very best prospects to shop in this tier (especially for Robertson, a rental), but if they have to give up some intriguing talent to add here, so be it. And realistically, the Blue Jays would be better off with multiple arms from this group.

.....................

So far, the needs we’ve examined cover the 2022 season, but since Hyun-Jin Ryu will likely miss all of next year and Kikuchi’s something of an unknown as well, there’s also a case to be made for adding a pitcher with multiple years of control.

Pursuing Reds trade candidate Luis Castillo makes sense even if the acquisition cost is much greater than it would be for, say, Quintana. Along those lines, it’s worth asking the Marlins about Pablo Lopez and others. Maybe the price is prohibitively high, in which case the Blue Jays don’t need to act desperately, but there could be an opportunity here, too.

Last summer’s deal for Berrios showed the Blue Jays aren’t opposed to this type of trade under the right circumstances. Starting here makes sense and if it doesn’t work out, a short-term fallback starter could still help this team reach the 2022 playoffs. And either way: the Blue Jays' front office must add impact relief for the deadline to be a clear success.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Guerriel is 100% going to open a bar in his post playing career

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Suntouchable13]

There are a lot of good bullpen arms out there. Even some non-contenders have solid pens. Jays can definitely get some good arms here without giving up a fortune.

 

[Woodman19]

Guerriel is 100% going to open a bar in his post playing career

Almost sounds like they should make a show about that. A retired baseball player who opens a bar.

 

[habamillions]

Mlbpa rejected the final proposal for the international draft. This is actually good news for the bluejays.

 

[as Pure as Evil]

Mlbpa rejected the final proposal for the international draft. This is actually good news for the bluejays.

the only way it would be a good thing is if your a rebuilding team. but it would hinder teams ability to keep a competitive window open if the top tier teams couldn't target big name ifa players and were stuck at the end of the line . its bad enough with limited spending most years.

or did i misunderstand the draft concept.

 

[MS]

Looking at the Betts trade, wow did the Sox ever get a bad return.

I still don't understand what the thinking was behind one of the richest organizations in MLB trading away a 27 y/o perennial MVP candidate.

In the end, they end up with a 2 WAR corner outfielder and two busts.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Mlbpa rejected the final proposal for the international draft. This is actually good news for the bluejays.

Thank god!

 

[stats1]

Mlbpa rejected the final proposal for the international draft. This is actually good news for the bluejays.

Yes it is. A draft would really help lower budget teams who constantly rank. The Jays have been one of the higher spending teams when it comes to the international market. We also have great talent evaluators. Getting Moreno for 20-25k is an absolute steal.

“Tank”

 

[Discoverer]

Yes it is. A draft would really help lower budget teams who constantly rank. The Jays have been one of the higher spending teams when it comes to the international market. We also have great talent evaluators. Getting Moreno for 20-25k is an absolute steal.

“Tank”

Moreno for that amount and Kirk for (I think) 10k in the same year while unable to spend because of the Vlad signing. That's insane value.

 

[dredeye]

Bill Burr on Ortiz having his number retired is pretty hilarious:

“I can’t believe they’re retiring this guy’s number. He’s a f****** DH. Retiring a DH’s number is like putting a vice president on Mount Rushmore. The man barely played a game.

“One time somebody asked David, ‘Hey, what’s it like to play professional baseball?’ He said, ‘It’s a lot like waiting for a bus, except once every 40 minutes you stand up and ground out to second.’”

LOL that’s awesome

To start rehabbing again lol

 

[Vector]

I still don't understand what the thinking was behind one of the richest organizations in MLB trading away a 27 y/o perennial MVP candidate.

In the end, they end up with a 2 WAR corner outfielder and two busts.

They really wanted to get away from as much of the David Price contract as they could (they basically retained 50%) and no longer be a tax paying team. That way they would be able to reset the clock.

 

[MS]

They really wanted to get away from as much of the David Price contract as they could (they basically retained 50%) and no longer be a tax paying team. That way they would be able to reset the clock.

I mean, I get that they were being cheap.

But they're the Boston f'ing Red Sox. They're one of the biggest franchises in NA pro sports. They're a license to print money. They could have eaten that Price contract with a smile and not batted an eye. They're like the Yankees or Dodgers - they don't have to worry about wasting money on retirement contracts. Even if they have to re-set slightly, they're never going to be a team that has a long rebuild where Betts' age was any sort of a problem.

Instead they handled the Betts thing like they were a penny-pinching mid-level team like the Reds or something.

Betts had been worth like 9 WAR/162 in the 5 years before they traded him and was 27 years old. He was probably their best individual player since Boggs and Clemens in the 1980s.

 

[Vector]

I mean, I get that they were being cheap.

But they're the Boston f'ing Red Sox. They're one of the biggest franchises in NA pro sports. They're a license to print money. They could have eaten that Price contract with a smile and not batted an eye. They're like the Yankees or Dodgers - they don't have to worry about wasting money on retirement contracts. Even if they have to re-set slightly, they're never going to be a team that has a long rebuild where Betts' age was any sort of a problem.

Instead they handled the Betts thing like they were a penny-pinching mid-level team like the Reds or something.

Betts had been worth like 9 WAR/162 in the 5 years before they traded him and was 27 years old. He was probably their best individual player since Boggs and Clemens in the 1980s.

I think their was some ownership shenanigans going on with the Red Sox at that time. I'm looking it up again and it tracks with my memory. I think the thought was they were going to try and buy into other sports (and they eventually did with the Penguins) and wanted to clear up the books a bit before doing that.

Hey, I'm thrilled it happened and it was stunned it came to it.

 

[trellaine201]

Every player is available. It’s just whether a team is willing to meet a price. If the Jays went to the Angels and offered to unload their farm system for Ohtani, my guess would be Angels give in. A lot of deals don’t get made not because it can’t be made it’s just prices not being met or prices being too high. But again my point is every player in sports is available for a price.

Everything for sale for the right price!