Blue Jays Discussion: Save some runs for the other games, guys. (Jays score team record 28 runs in Friday night drubbing of Red Sox. Yes, that says 28. In one game)

[MAB1]

Soto for Bo, Moreno and another prospect not named Tiedemann is about the most I'm willing to do. If you do all prospects you're completely gutting your farm to make it worth it for the Nats. Including Bo you can't go much farther than Moreno too to get it done or it becomes too much.

Baseball trade value has Soto at 176.8 million excess value. Bo, Moreno and Groshans at 180.6

I don't know what other teams that would realistically top that offer. And that's not even getting into the fact that the Jays can keep adding. Bichette, Gurriel, Moreno, Groshans, Martinez for example... Even if the Jays only have Soto for 3 playoff runs and two full seasons, it's hard to turn down the potential of:

1. Springer (CF)
2. Vladdy Jr (1B)
3. Soto (RF)
4. Kirk (C)
5. Hernandez (DH)
6. Gurriel (LF)
7. Espinal (SS)
8. Chapman (3B)
9. Biggio (2B)

Jansen, Tapia, XXX to round out the bench.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Another guy the Jays might consider, as a contact-oriented switch-hitter with a chance to play up the middle.

Jace Grady, OF, Dallas-Baptist
(2022) 232ab .310/.419/.509 10hr 37rbi 12(2b) 2(3b) 40bb 60so 25sb 2cs
(Cape) 78ab .346/.378/.539 4hr 12rbi 3(2b) 4bb 7so 5sb 0cs

After a fine first full season at Dallas Baptist in 2021, Grady opened eyes by hitting .346 in the Cape Cod League, which would have won the batting title if he hadn't finished a few plate appearances shy of qualifying. He also went deep six times in 22 games with wood bats after homering four times in 49 games with the Patriots. Following a solid junior season, he'll likely fall a round or two short of joining Jameson Hannah and Jimmy Glowenke as the highest-drafted position players in school history (second round). A switch-hitter, Grady has a quick swing and good feel for the barrel from both sides of the plate. He makes repeated contact and uses the entire field. Though he's not very physical, he has some sneaky pop that began to emerge on the Cape and he could produce 15 or more homers per season. Grady uses his solid speed well, showing the ability to bunt for hits and steal some bases. His quickness and instincts also are apparent in center field, where he gets good jumps and exhibits solid range. He has fringy arm strength that's playable in center.

 

[Blitzkrug]

the "major league ready players" ask really narrows down the field.

The Dodgers definitely would be in position since they could offer Gavin Lux, Bobby Miller as a big prospect and then probably some mix of another prospect and like, Cody Bellinger as a reclamation project or something. Hell they could probably throw Dustin May in.

Tampa would be in the equation since they have an embarrassment of riches in their farm but it would almost assuredly be an all in type push to win a world series in the window where Soto is under team control (2.5 years essentially) and then probably lose him

Toronto fits as well. They want Bo and Moreno? Let's talk bidness. Everyone but Manoah and Vlad would be on the table.

And unfortunately for us, the Yankees could probably throw their hat in. Peraza and Volpe are both hot ticket prospects that are closer to the majors than people seem to realize, and then guys like Dominguez as well.

It's going to be an absolutely batshit leadup to, and deadline if he's really that close to being out the door.

 

[dredeye]

We could do Bo, Moreno, Pearson, Lopez and Taylor. Pearson is still intriguing but a risk. Moreno and Bo are sure things in the mlb. Lopez and Taylor are ready but not really guarantees of anything. Problem is that if we traded Bo we’d need a utility guy which Lopez could be now. I don’t mind adding another prospect like Groshans either. I think we’d maybe then look at moving possibly Gurriel for a pitcher. More teo to LF

 

[phillipmike]

Tons of talent taken on Day 2 of the Draft

After a wild first day of the 2022 MLB Draft covering Rounds 1 and 2, eight compensation picks and Competitive Balance Rounds A and B, Day 2, which covered Rounds 3-10, saw plenty of talent go off the board. Below are some of the more notable picks made before the

www.mlb.com

Pick 22 (218th overall): Blue Jays, Peyton Williams, 1B, Iowa: First-base-only types need to show power, and Williams has the easy plus-plus raw pop to fit the profile. The All-Big Ten First Teamer hit .335/.464/.622 with 13 homers and an even 35/35 K/BB ratio this spring for the Hawkeyes.

 

[Dr.Funk]

Trading for Soto is half the problem. Signing him, is the bigger question.

You're not signing him. It's a virtual guarantee Scott Boras takes Soto to free agency.

 

[BertCorbeau]

If you're going big for Soto, you have to be willing to keep going big to improve the rotation and bullpen

Basically gut the system to have a 2-3 year shot to win.

Honestly with how tough the AL East is ... I've heard worse ideas.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Opinion | Jays swing for the fences in MLB draft, and might get more than they bargained for

With their promising core, the Jays figure to contend for a few years. Success beyond that will come down to how their scouting department performs during weeks like this.

www.thestar.com

“We acquired three different types of hitters,” Farrell said. “Josh, very much contact oriented: low walk, low strikeout. Tucker, we believe, has some power potential, and Cade is obviously a good hitter in his own right. We’re excited about all three.”

High-school players are risky. They’re notoriously difficult to project, and yet teams that identify the right ones often tap into more upside than their college targets. There are home runs up for grabs; teams just can’t be afraid to swing and miss.

Those players also tend to be difficult to sign because of college commitments. The Jays went through that when first rounder Tyler Beede chose school over going pro in 2011. Two years later, Phil Bickford did the same thing.

That’s not expected to be an issue this time, with deals likely worked out in advance. Barriera and Toman have already talked about their eagerness to get started, and the Jays seem confident about closing the deals.

“We feel like we’re in a good place ... and will continue our discussions,” Farrell said. “We don’t foresee much difficulty in getting things done.”

Players picked lower than expected often still get paid as if they were taken much higher. Toman figures to get well above the $847,000 (U.S.) recommended bonus assigned to his pick, and Barriera might be able to do better than $3.08 million.

To explain how the Jays can afford to do that and remain under their $8.3-million soft cap, one only needs to look at how they handled day two.

They went off the board with almost every pick in rounds three through 10, with college outfielder Alan Roden the only one to crack MLB Pipeline’s top 250.

By signing players to below-slot deals in the later rounds, they can afford to pay their higher picks even more. In a year when the Jays had two additional picks on day one, that seems to make a whole lot of sense.

Sustained success is hard to come by in the big leagues. With their promising core, the Jays figure to contend for the next few years. Success beyond that will come down to how their scouting department performs during weeks like this.

The draft might not make for must-see TV like it does in a lot of other sports, but for the Jays it’s every bit as crucial to their future as what has been taking place on the field throughout 2022. Based on the reviews, they seem to have done quite well.

 

[trellaine201]

Whose signing him for half a billion dollars? Probably NY teams, LA teams, Boston? Rogers isn’t forking out that kind of cash. Nor do I believe they should.

 

[MAB1]

If you're going big for Soto, you have to be willing to keep going big to improve the rotation and bullpen

Basically gut the system to have a 2-3 year shot to win.

Honestly with how tough the AL East is ... I've heard worse ideas.

I don't necessarily think this has to be true. If they acquire Soto and say the price is Bichette, Moreno, Groshans, Martinez, Pearson. All you've done is replace a core player with an even better player (who's actually younger than Bichette) at the cost of Moreno (the Jays already have arguably the best catcher in MLB this year and he's only 23), two top 100 prospects (which if I'm being honest with the Jays drafting and development...there'll be others that'll replace them) and Pearson.

You still have Tiedmann, Zulu, the rest of the system + this year's draft class. From there, a couple late inning bullpen pieces which by no means should decimate the farm. They would have a really great window over the next 3 years but like teams like the Dodgers, they just keep producing cheap, young, star talent to supplement the team and maintain a long window.

The Red Sox of the 2000's and 2010's had a revolving cast of superstar sluggers next to Ortiz. Manny, Bay, Gonzalez, Betts, V. Martinez, J.D Martinez, etc. It didn't mean they narrowed their window, they just added superior players whenever it had a chance to improve their lineup.

 

[aingefan]

Soto would be a home run jacket swing for the fences.

A half billion dollars sounds absolutely ludicrous tho.

 

[MAB1]

Whose signing him for half a billion dollars? Probably NY teams, LA teams, Boston? Rogers isn’t forking out that kind of cash. Nor do I believe they should.

Boston isn't giving him that, they couldn't even keep Betts because of that issue. The Yankees will probably be out on that contract too since they'll have to give Judge one similar. My best bet would be the Mets with their new owner and maybe the Dodgers or Padres because they like to spend crazy would be the Jays competition in keeping him should they trade for him.

Soto would be a home run jacket swing for the fences.

A half billion dollars sounds absolutely ludicrous tho.

You are aware Vladdy Jr will probably come close to that number should the Jays lock him up right?

 

[Discoverer]

Whose signing him for half a billion dollars? Probably NY teams, LA teams, Boston? Rogers isn’t forking out that kind of cash. Nor do I believe they should.

The Yankees' payroll hasn't increased for something like 20 years now, so I would be shocked if they suddenly decided to blow past the luxury tax regularly. They already have two massive, long-term deals (Stanton and Cole will still be making over $60 million in 2027), and Judge is looking for a crazy deal, too.

The one thing I could see the Yankees doing is trading for Soto now, giving him a mega-deal, and letting Judge walk. And it kinda makes sense... the concern with Judge is that he's already 30, so there's a ton of risk that he could fall off relatively quickly. But if you can let him go and give all his money to the 24-year old superstar instead... ugh. I hate the Yankees.

 

[Eyedea]

All depends on how far the Jays/Yanks are willing to go with their trade offers. Think Yanks max out at Torres + Volpe/Peraza + Waldichuk/Medina. Jays can almost assuredly beat that with Bo + Moreno + Orelvis. Nats might want Tiedemann though and I don't see why you don't do that. As special as his season has been, we're talking about Juan Soto. Maybe you can get away with Moreno + Orelvis + Tiedemann and hang onto Bo. Ryu's money is pretty much off the books so that's 20m they can play with. Still 38m under the luxury tax.

 

[Discoverer]

All depends on how far the Jays/Yanks are willing to go with their trade offers. Think Yanks max out at Torres + Volpe/Peraza + Waldichuk/Medina. Jays can almost assuredly beat that with Bo + Moreno + Orelvis. Nats might want Tiedemann though and I don't see why you don't do that. As special as his season has been, we're talking about Juan Soto. Maybe you can get away with Moreno + Orelvis + Tiedemann and hang onto Bo. Ryu's money is pretty much off the books so that's 20m they can play with. Still 38m under the luxury tax.

I'm not convinced any team is going to give up "fair" value in prospects for Soto, so I expect at least Corbin to be attached to whatever deal happens. That would be a huge opportunity for Rogers to flex some financial muscle. Most of the other suitors are at or already over the luxury tax, so they have to pay the penalties on any extra salary they bring in.

 

[aingefan]

Boston isn't giving him that, they couldn't even keep Betts because of that issue. The Yankees will probably be out on that contract too since they'll have to give Judge one similar. My best bet would be the Mets with their new owner and maybe the Dodgers or Padres because they like to spend crazy would be the Jays competition in keeping him should they trade for him.


You are aware Vladdy Jr will probably come close to that number should the Jays lock him up right?

Equally wild if/when so.

 

[MAB1]

I'm not convinced any team is going to give up "fair" value in prospects for Soto, so I expect at least Corbin to be attached to whatever deal happens. That would be a huge opportunity for Rogers to flex some financial muscle. Most of the other suitors are at or already over the luxury tax, so they have to pay the penalties on any extra salary they bring in.

And who knows what Walker could do with Corbin, that could easily be Ray 2.0 if he can work his magic and now you've also got another top of the rotation pitcher in what was originally a salary dump.

 

[Eyedea]

I'm not convinced any team is going to give up "fair" value in prospects for Soto, so I expect at least Corbin to be attached to whatever deal happens. That would be a huge opportunity for Rogers to flex some financial muscle. Most of the other suitors are at or already over the luxury tax, so they have to pay the penalties on any extra salary they bring in.

It's honestly never a fair deal. Any time a superstar is being traded the team who acquires him is pretty much always winning that deal. But a 1 year Mookie + Price (3 x 16m aav) got Verdugo (top 50 prospect), Jeter Downs (top 100), and Connor Wong (unranked). A 2.5 year Soto who you'll have for 3 postseason runs is almost assuredly worth significant prospect capital even with Corbin (only 2 years remaining) attached. I can see the case of adding Strasburg with the Nats eating half of his salary. That's a lot of money to take in and would significantly drop the value of Soto, but still provide teams with enough incentive to trade a couple of their major league ready top prospects.

 

[Morgs]

And who knows what Walker could do with Corbin, that could easily be Ray 2.0 if he can work his magic and now you've also got another top of the rotation pitcher in what was originally a salary dump.

I mean, Ray was a guy who had unhittable stuff that had no control and was on a 1 year deal. They tried to duplicate it with Kikuchi and it hasn't worked out [yet]. Corbin... is not that.

 

[Eyedea]

I mean, Ray was a guy who had unhittable stuff that had no control and was on a 1 year deal. They tried to duplicate it with Kikuchi and it hasn't worked out [yet]. Corbin... is not that.

Corbin was very dominant at one point and it was entirely due to his slider. For a few years (2017-2019) only Scherzer had a better one. He lost velocity back in 2020, and in an effort to regain it, he added extension in his delivery. That extension has turned him into more of a contact oriented pitcher now, and (presumably) with the lost rpm on his slider it's become far more hittable.

A Potential Fix for Patrick Corbin

Patrick Corbin’s sudden decline doesn’t seem like it’s tied to overuse.

blogs.fangraphs.com

Maybe there is a possible fix for him? He could've maybe been impacted by the sticky stuff ban too.

 

[MAB1]

I mean, Ray was a guy who had unhittable stuff that had no control and was on a 1 year deal. They tried to duplicate it with Kikuchi and it hasn't worked out [yet]. Corbin... is not that.

1. Ray was here for two seasons, he was just injured during one of them.
2. Corbin is exactly what you described, 2018 - 246k's in 200 innings, 2019 - 238k's in 202 innings.

I think you need a refresher on who Corbin was before the past couple seasons.

 

[Discoverer]

1. Ray was here for two seasons, he was just injured during one of them.
2. Corbin is exactly what you described, 2018 - 246k's in 200 innings, 2019 - 238k's in 202 innings.

I think you need a refresher on who Corbin was before the past couple seasons.

Ray wasn't injured for one of them, he was just acquired at the deadline and only spent a month with the team.

 

[MAB1]

The Yankees' payroll hasn't increased for something like 20 years now, so I would be shocked if they suddenly decided to blow past the luxury tax regularly. They already have two massive, long-term deals (Stanton and Cole will still be making over $60 million in 2027), and Judge is looking for a crazy deal, too.

The one thing I could see the Yankees doing is trading for Soto now, giving him a mega-deal, and letting Judge walk. And it kinda makes sense... the concern with Judge is that he's already 30, so there's a ton of risk that he could fall off relatively quickly. But if you can let him go and give all his money to the 24-year old superstar instead... ugh. I hate the Yankees.

There's a lot of risk in that too though. Soto has shown he's dead set on hitting free agency, especially with Boras as his agent. That trade for the Yankees could very well result in losing Judge and then potentially losing Soto two seasons after...which if we're being real, when Soto reaches free agency, the Yankees money won't matter because every big market team that can offer him a blank cheque, will. Soto would just have to choose if he wants to be paid $500 million to play in NY or LA or some other big market.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Morgs]

1. Ray was here for two seasons, he was just injured during one of them.
2. Corbin is exactly what you described, 2018 - 246k's in 200 innings, 2019 - 238k's in 202 innings.

I think you need a refresher on who Corbin was before the past couple seasons.

Nah. I'm well aware who Corbin is.

Ray was here for a season + a deadline and wasn't injured. He was just terrible before because of the control and when someone barreled him they blew him up. He was okay with the Jays for like a month, but still managed to strikeout guys despite his poor control (aka every year but 2021). They then added another 1 year deal because they saw something.

Corbin USED to be good, but he's been bad now 3 years in a row and there's virtually nothing in his profile that dictates him being "unlucky" or "better than he has been". He's probably washed, but @Eyedea knows more than I do in regards to his mechanics so maybe a slight change could do wonders for him.