Blue Jays Discussion: Save some runs for the other games, guys. (Jays score team record 28 runs in Friday night drubbing of Red Sox. Yes, that says 28. In one game)

[Woodman19]

The Biggest Winners and Losers from Day 1 of 2022 MLB Draft

The first day of the 2022 MLB draft is in the books. Here's who made out well...and who didn't.

bleacherreport.com

Why did they have to write this? Issac is going to be the best baseball player every to play the game now and play basketball in the offseason and break all of Jordan’s records then become the President of the USA, cure world hunger and bring back Mountain Dew Code Red.

I dont know, the Rays are a well run organization but almost all of their success the last 10 years have been on the back of trades not the draft. I think they have excellent minor league scouts but they don't really seem to be as good at finding impact talent in the draft as you would expect.

 

[Morgs]

 

[Morgs]

 

[Avilaj07]

I still think the Jays should be going all in on Soto. He's a star player who fills multiple needs. Power left bat, great outfielder, only 23 years old.

To Toronto-
Soto

To Nationals-
Gurriel
Moreno
Martinez
Pearson
Biggio

Springer
Bichette
Soto
Vlad
Kirk
Teo
Chapman
Espinal
Jansen

Good luck getting through that lineup

 

[Avilaj07]

Delete

 

[canucksfan]

I still think the Jays should be going all in on Soto. He's a star player who fills multiple needs. Power left bat, great outfielder, only 23 years old.
To Toronto-
Soto
To Nationals-
Gurriel
Moreno
Martinez
Pearson
Biggio
Springer
Bichette
Soto
Vlad
Kirk
Teo
Chapman
Espinal
Jansen
Good luck getting through that lineup

The value of the trade needs to be a lot more.

 

[Eyedea]

I still think the Jays should be going all in on Soto. He's a star player who fills multiple needs. Power left bat, great outfielder, only 23 years old.

To Toronto-
Soto

To Nationals-
Gurriel
Moreno
Martinez
Pearson
Biggio

Springer
Bichette
Soto
Vlad
Kirk
Teo
Chapman
Espinal
Jansen

Good luck getting through that lineup

Too many moving pieces, not enough quality for the Nats imo. We're probably looking at something like Bichette + Moreno + Tiedemann. Or we take on Corbin's contract and swap Bichette for Gurriel. Throw in Bell for a middle prospect (Lopez).

 

[CherryToke]

Pearson has almost 0 value right now in a trade..

Bo would definitely need to go the other way and it should be an easy decisions for the Jays. Trade him before his value tanks.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Honestly, just a personal preference, I'd rather invest in another pitcher like a Berrios type from last year. Soto would be a luxury. If we can spend similar assets and get a stud pitcher, I'd rather have that.

 

[Eyedea]

Honestly, just a personal preference, I'd rather invest in another pitcher like a Berrios type from last year. Soto would be a luxury. If we can spend similar assets and get a stud pitcher, I'd rather have that.

I'd argue it's much more valuable to spend those assets on a generational talent that can make an impact in every game and has another 2 years of control. I also think the asking price of some of these SPs out here, namely Luis Castillo, is outrageously high. When it comes to pitching I'd rather target a rental like Syndergaard or Quintana to shore up the rotation.

 

[MAB1]

Honestly, just a personal preference, I'd rather invest in another pitcher like a Berrios type from last year. Soto would be a luxury. If we can spend similar assets and get a stud pitcher, I'd rather have that.

If you can get a player like Soto especially at his age and the cost isn't too crippling (ex: trading Vladdy or Monoah), you do it. The sheer value he provides over the course of a season in itself would justify it let alone positional need. Personally speaking, I'd rather move the top prospects for a legitimate generational talent rather than for some #2/3 pitcher. The value of having Soto in the lineup 140+ times a season is greater than the 30 or so starts they'll get from acquiring a pitcher like Berrios.

No clue what the cost would be but Soto is one of the few players in the game that has more value than Vladdy Jr. I'd offer:

Bichette
Moreno/Kirk
Groshans/Martinez/Tiedmann (they can pick 2)

No clue if that would be enough but it would be tough seeing a team beat a potential package of Bichette, Kirk, and two of Groshans/Martinez/Tiedmann

 

[Morgs]

So it sounds like a lot of people in the scouting community think Toman should give up the switch hitting and focus solely on being a lefty as he's significantly better on that side. Also sounds like he's going to be a 3B, stick and potentially plus at the position.

Anyone have any insight?

 

[Woodman19]

I still think the Jays should be going all in on Soto. He's a star player who fills multiple needs. Power left bat, great outfielder, only 23 years old.

To Toronto-
Soto

To Nationals-
Gurriel
Moreno
Martinez
Pearson
Biggio

Springer
Bichette
Soto
Vlad
Kirk
Teo
Chapman
Espinal
Jansen

Good luck getting through that lineup

I think Bichette + Moreno/Kirk + more prospects is the type of deal that might interest them. I think moving Bo to let Espinal play SS would help fix the defense while massively upgrading the teams offense.

 

[phillipmike]

 

[TheBeastCoast]

You start the package with Bo and Moreno and build it out from there depending on what money if any they want to also send our way in a Soto trade. The idea of Soto and Vlad hitting back to back for the next decade is to enticing to not go after fully.

 

[phillipmike]

 

[Discoverer]

I think Bichette + Moreno/Kirk + more prospects is the type of deal that might interest them. I think moving Bo to let Espinal play SS would help fix the defense while massively upgrading the teams offense.

I'm not sure how I feel about the idea of moving Bo in a Soto trade (for either side, really), but I know if it's happening I would take out the "/Kirk" from the second part of that deal. Washington can have Moreno, but Kirk has been an elite catcher since coming into the league and an integral part of the team this year.

I would argue that Bo + Kirk for Soto makes the team worse the rest of the year.

 

[MAB1]

I'm not sure how I feel about the idea of moving Bo in a Soto trade (for either side, really), but I know if it's happening I would take out the "/Kirk" from the second part of that deal. Washington can have Moreno, but Kirk has been an elite catcher since coming into the league and an integral part of the team this year.

I would argue that Bo + Kirk for Soto makes the team worse the rest of the year.

1. Kirk may be elite but Soto has pretty much been a generational player since coming into the league. Add in physical profiles and I trust Soto's durability to hold up longer than Kirk's.

2. Because you're replacing two spots in the lineup and just adding Soto. Moreno would replace Kirk in the lineup most likely in such a trade so your real question does Bo + Kirk make the team better than Soto + Moreno the rest of the season?

I'm going with the latter. People forget Soto is doing what he's doing as pretty much the only threat in the Nats lineup. Him hitting in the middle of Springer, Vladdy Jr and Teo will be very different.

 

[SDig14]

So it sounds like a lot of people in the scouting community think Toman should give up the switch hitting and focus solely on being a lefty as he's significantly better on that side. Also sounds like he's going to be a 3B, stick and potentially plus at the position.

Anyone have any insight?

His swing is even better from the left side and he seems to have more raw power from the left side but he hit really well from both sides really. More line drive power from the right side from most scouting reports. And most scouts seem to like his quick twitch infield defense and has a good arm to stick at 3B.

I have no idea how teams usually develop switch hitters and when they abandon one side, but it feels like he is 3 years away anyways so might as well just start pro ball as a switch hitter and see how it goes?

 

[bentharbs]

I'd do Soto for a bunch of blue chip prospects, but not our top roster guys considering the window is open.

I get that probably ends the conversation and that's fine.

 

[SDig14]

I'd do Soto for a bunch of blue chip prospects, but not our top roster guys considering the window is open.

I get that probably ends the conversation and that's fine.

I'm not sure it ends the conversation. If you look at the teams that we think could give Soto $500 million, it is like the Dodgers, Red Sox, Yankees and Mets. Maybe the Padres because they often get desperate.

I don't think any of those teams are putting a Bichette level roster player into the package. Hell, all the Yankee and Met fans are trying to do it without even giving up their best prospect (Alvarez and Volpe).

We would only need to outbid other teams and Moreno is as good a prospect as any team that wants to trade for Soto can put on the table. May come down to who the Nats prefer.

I doubt the Jays would do it because it is only 2 years of control and I can't see him signing even a shorter deal like 5-7 more years here, but if he did then anyone except Vlad is on the table.

 

[Woodman19]

Also, we arent necessarily looking to add Soto with the intention of signing him to $400+ million. We would be acquiring him for 2.5 seasons of Guerrero like production in the hopes we can win a ton of games int he next 3 years.

 

[Eyedea]

So it sounds like a lot of people in the scouting community think Toman should give up the switch hitting and focus solely on being a lefty as he's significantly better on that side. Also sounds like he's going to be a 3B, stick and potentially plus at the position.

Anyone have any insight?

Just from watching some clips it looks like he gets more inward stride action on the right side, and more load from the left side but his bat speed seems pretty solid from both sides. I think the big thing they'll need to work on with him (aside from pitch selection) is his footwork and lower half mechanics. The toe tap is messy and I don't have enough info to see how he syncs with the pitcher but he looks late at times from the right side in getting to his launch position. I like the sound of the bat though, looks like the kid can barrel it up.

 

[Discoverer]

1. Kirk may be elite but Soto has pretty much been a generational player since coming into the league. Add in physical profiles and I trust Soto's durability to hold up longer than Kirk's.

2. Because you're replacing two spots in the lineup and just adding Soto. Moreno would replace Kirk in the lineup most likely in such a trade so your real question does Bo + Kirk make the team better than Soto + Moreno the rest of the season?

I'm going with the latter. People forget Soto is doing what he's doing as pretty much the only threat in the Nats lineup. Him hitting in the middle of Springer, Vladdy Jr and Teo will be very different.

I like Moreno a lot as a prospect, but the dropoff from Kirk to Moreno is massive.

You're also not replacing Bo with Soto... you're replacing an OF (probably Gurriel) with Soto and replacing a Bo/Espinal/Biggio with Espinal/Biggio/whoever in the middle infield. That's also a massive dropoff.

I realize how good Soto is, but I don't think making multiple significant downgrades to a very good lineup is worth it, especially considering years of control. If that's what Washington insists on and you can't get it done with top prospects and secondary roster pieces, I would gladly move on to someone a tier or two down (like Bryan Reynolds) where you can add a player without losing a ton of current value elsewhere.

 

[SDig14]

Also, we arent necessarily looking to add Soto with the intention of signing him to $400+ million. We would be acquiring him for 2.5 seasons of Guerrero like production in the hopes we can win a ton of games int he next 3 years.

Pretty much this. And the trade package would reflect it.

This may mean we would offer less than another team that are prepared to give him $450+ million.

I doubt he is upset with the Nats offer of total money, but it is too many years, the team is bad with some bad contracts, team is being sold and new owner is TBD and apparently offer was very backloaded with lots of deferrals.