Confirmed with Link: Sandin to Washington for Erik Gustafsson and 1st (BOS)

[ULF_55]

Problem is, not sure sending him out there in roles he's not ready for to be caved in is great for his development.

Really depends on the character of the player.

Somehow I don't think Sandin is going to shrink and fade away.

 

[ULF_55]

Didn't he already hold out once?

Actually, the term hold-out is misused.

A hold-out is a player who is under contract and withholds his service.

An unsigned player is not a hold-out.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Really depends on the character of the player.
Somehow I don't think Sandin is going to shrink and fade away.

Likely won't fade away, but I don't think it's doing much for his defensive development, which is the area he most needs to work on.

 

[Kurtz]

Actually, the term hold-out is misused.

A hold-out is a player who is under contract and withholds his service.

An unsigned player is not a hold-out.

Has that ever happened?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Has that ever happened?

Technically, I guess player strikes are that, but those are the result of a lack of CBA.
A player doing it on their own isn't a holdout... because their contract would just be terminated.
A holdout is a refusal to accept something that is offered, so I don't see why refusing to sign wouldn't be a holdout.

 

[saltming]

Actually, the term hold-out is misused.

A hold-out is a player who is under contract and withholds his service.

An unsigned player is not a hold-out.

 

[ULF_55]

Likely won't fade away, but I don't think it's doing much for his defensive development, which is the area he most needs to work on.

Time will tell.

I'm just surprised they are playing him that much, and their 2nd. youngster defender.

 

[4thline]

Has that ever happened?

Not since the 05 lockout made it essentially impossible for it to accomplish anything

 

[ULF_55]

Not since the 05 lockout made it essentially impossible for it to accomplish anything

Great Intro:

» Five Holdouts Who Changed the NHL

grantland.com

Well, almost all players. A few aren’t there yet, because they’re sitting at home waiting for a new contract. The most notable name in that group is Blue Jackets star Ryan Johansen, whose increasingly ugly contract dispute has left him millions of dollars away from the team’s best offer.

Except that Johansen isn’t holding out. Neither are Torey Krug and Jaden Schwartz, and neither was P.K. Subban two years ago nor Drew Doughty the year before that. A restricted free agent without a deal isn’t holding out — he just doesn’t have a contract, and he’s not allowed to play without one. Stop calling RFAs holdouts. I feel very strongly about this.1

No, a real holdout comes when a player has a valid deal and refuses to honor it, usually because he wants to renegotiate for more money. And those holdouts are essentially nonexistent in today’s NHL, thanks to the 2005 CBA, which made it impossible to tear up an existing contract. That change eliminated the incentive to stay home, and basically made long holdouts obsolete.

more at link, with Holdouts identified.

 

[ACC1224]

Has that ever happened?

It has in other sports where contracts can be re-negotiated.

 

[Kurtz]

It has in other sports where contracts can be re-negotiated.

Yep, and it's happened in the NBA - where a contract can't get re-negotiated but a player just refused to show up/play for his new team (ie Igoudala when he was dealt to Memphis).

I just don't remember it ever happening in the NHL where a player under contract refused to play. Even Lindros wasn't under contract where he refused to play for Quebec, I don't think.

In NHL parlance when we talk about a player holding out, it's understood to be a RFA (or sometimes draftee).

 

[ACC1224]

Yep, and it's happened in the NBA - where a contract can't get re-negotiated but a player just refused to show up/play for his new team (ie Igoudala when he was dealt to Memphis).

I just don't remember it ever happening in the NHL where a player under contract refused to play. Even Lindros wasn't under contract where he refused to play for Quebec, I don't think.

In NHL parlance when we talk about a player holding out, it's understood to be a RFA (or sometimes draftee).

Yeah, usually refers to missing camp.

I think players have been traded/waived and refused to report in the NHL.

 

[ULF_55]

Yep, and it's happened in the NBA - where a contract can't get re-negotiated but a player just refused to show up/play for his new team (ie Igoudala when he was dealt to Memphis).

I just don't remember it ever happening in the NHL where a player under contract refused to play. Even Lindros wasn't under contract where he refused to play for Quebec, I don't think.

In NHL parlance when we talk about a player holding out, it's understood to be a RFA (or sometimes draftee).

Yashin's holdout was very well discussed ... maybe it depends on the age of the reader ... cuz doesn't seem that long ago.

The link above lists hold-outs.

Mr. Dryden:

That was a bit of a problem, because the Canadiens weren’t interested in reworking his deal, which reportedly paid him $80,000. That wasn’t bad money back then, but in an era where superstars were starting to get six-figure deals, Dryden knew he was worth more. He didn’t have any leverage, though. After all, what was he going to do — go out and find another job?

Yes, as it turns out. Unable to come to an agreement with the team, Dryden took the entire 1973-74 season off. He used the time to finish his law degree and got some experience working at a Toronto firm. When time permitted, he suited up for Vulcan Industrial Packaging of the Toronto Lakeshore League. He played defense.

Dryden’s holdout lasted until he re-signed with the Canadiens in time for the 1974-75 season, getting the sort of big-money deal he’d wanted all along. He went on to win four more Vezinas and four more Stanley Cups in Montreal before retiring for good in 1979, at the relatively young age of 32.

 

[Gallagbi]

Washington got a young Dman only 22 years old who was a former 1st round pick, who has put up 1 goal and 10 assists for 11 points in his first 8 games, while averaging nearly 25 minutes a night TOI/g.

They surrendered their extra 1st round pick acquired from Boston which can be no higher than 30th overall.

So far the return on investment favours the Caps.

If Dubas was acquiring young players under 23 for 1st round pics with long-term potential Leafs Nation fans would also be excited if they were contributing to NHL success.

Sadly Leafs GM is using 1sts to get out of Cap Hell with dumping contracts like Marleau or Mrazek or acquiring Muzzin and Foligno types that are only opportunity loss and not gain,

We still don't know what Dubas plans to do with this pick, and he could very well have acquired it to get out of the Matt Murray contract next year.

I'm curious, what did you want to do with Sandin? Would he be in your playoff roster?

 

[Budz]

Washington got a young Dman only 22 years old who was a former 1st round pick, who has put up 1 goal and 10 assists for 11 points in his first 8 games, while averaging nearly 25 minutes a night TOI/g.

They surrendered their extra 1st round pick acquired from Boston which can be no higher than 30th overall.

So far the return on investment favours the Caps.

If Dubas was acquiring young players under 23 for 1st round pics with long-term potential Leafs Nation fans would also be excited if they were contributing to NHL success.

Sadly Leafs GM is using 1sts to get out of Cap Hell with dumping contracts like Marleau or Mrazek or acquiring Muzzin and Foligno types that are only opportunity loss and not gain,

We still don't know what Dubas plans to do with this pick, and he could very well have acquired it to get out of the Matt Murray contract next year.

There is a reason you don’t evaluate trades 3 weeks later.

 

[Namikaze Minato]

Has that ever happened?

When was Chad Kilger traded? That's the last guy I can remember genuinely just being like, "nah, I'm good."

Or maybe Spezz being like 'if anyone takes me, I retire' is a mini hold out

 

[ULF_55]

Has that ever happened?

In case you missed it ... yes players under contract have held out.

 

[Gallagbi]

In case you missed it ... yes players under contract have held out.

Is Yashin the last? I cant think of another and thats almost 25 years ago now

 

[TML Dynasty]

If we kept Sandin I don’t think he’d be in our playoff roster and this is an important year for a push. If we left him out of the lineup for playoffs I could see the relationship between player and team deteriorating to the point where there’s a split. Trade demand etc. Then we still don’t have him for this year, and future with us or any return would be in jeopardy.

We got fair value. We are better this year. Yeah the risk is he becomes a stud in the future and we don’t know what the first gets us yet.

I didn’t like the Gus addon tho. Wish it was another pick but I’ll certainly change my tune if someone like Reilly got hurt. Depth.

 

[Kurtz]

In case you missed it ... yes players under contract have held out.

Anyone from this millennium?

 

[ULF_55]

Is Yashin the last? I cant think of another and thats almost 25 years ago now

Time flies doesn't it?

Yes, other than holding out for a trade (threatening to retire?) not a real benefit to hold-out today.

 

[Kurtz]

Time flies doesn't it?

Yes, other than holding out for a trade (threatening to retire?) not a real benefit to hold-out today.

Indeed, which is why when we talk about holdouts today we're talking about guys refusing to agree to a contract - RFAs and draftees.

Nylander, Marner, Sandin were all recent Leaf holdouts.

 

[ULF_55]

Anyone from this millennium?

That's only a few years ago ...

 

[ULF_55]

Indeed, which is why when we talk about holdouts today we're talking about guys refusing to agree to a contract - RFAs and draftees.

Nylander, Marner, Sandin were all recent Leaf holdouts.

One of the posts suggested anyone who doesn't accept the first offer is a hold-out.

So likely 50% of the league has held out. Heck, even ELC's can hold-out by demanding bonuses.

Heck, might be less than 10% of players who haven't been a hold-out.

 

[Menzinger]

One of the posts suggested anyone who doesn't accept the first offer is a hold-out.

So likely 50% of the league has held out. Heck, even ELC's can hold-out by demanding bonuses.

Heck, might be less than 10% of players who haven't been a hold-out.

Imo fans get too emotional about it too. It's one of the few negotiation strategies that RFAs have given all the power lies with teams until they're ufa.

What matters is ultimately their attitude - once.the contract is taken care of are they willing to buy in and be part of the team ect. If they player is still unsettled then there may be trouble ahead.

With Sandin, unfortunately the bridge deal only seemed to punt the deeper questions about him down the line to be dealt with later. Marner and Nylander haven't looked back once in comparison