Sabres Drafting
- Thread starter ADoubleD
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ZZamboni
Puttin' on the Foil
Thanks. Correct me if I'm wrong ....
The article was from nearly 18 months ago...
They still use video but not nearly to the same degree as the Golisano days ...
Pegula and co. have brought on many more scouts ....
Yet you say they still "heavily" rely on video ....
What is "heavily" to you? Is it more than other teams? Is it using it at all? What means "heavily"?
stokes84
Registered User
I couldn't possibly give you those types of details. All I know is that it is still a significant resource for them, and I don't think it's going away. Who knows, maybe Tim Murray has other ideas though.
ZZamboni
Puttin' on the Foil
Ok, but you said heavily. I thought maybe to call their reliance on video scouting that, you knew what other teams do. And that's why you've determined it as heavily relied on.
So really in all honesty you don't know if the 2013-2014 season they heavily rely on video scouting at all, in comparison to what most clubs do.
It was just an opinion based in no actual facts? Confused.
stokes84
Registered User
Ok, but you said heavily. I thought maybe to call their reliance on video scouting that, you knew what other teams do. And that's why you've determined it as heavily relied on.
So really in all honesty you don't know if the 2013-2014 season they heavily rely on video scouting at all, in comparison to what most clubs do.
It was just an opinion based in no actual facts? Confused.
You sure do read a lot into a little. Never said anything about other teams.
Djp
Registered User
all teams use some video....but during 2005-2007 they heavily relied on it when they cut their scouting staff.
Sure its imposible for scouts to see all the games so say a WHL scout makes an effort to see each team say 5 times during the season and they will still consult some video to then see how players have been doing since the last time they saw the team.
It also depends greatly on what video you are actually looking at.
TV broadcast is very different than if you got a feed of the full game from one end seeing the full ice view. The NHL equivalent of the NFL all 22 feed.
ZZamboni
Puttin' on the Foil
I know you didn't. I just thought you describing their heavy reliance on video you need to compare at least two things.
Sabres don't score much.
How do I know?
I compare the goals the Sabres score against other teams in the league.
Determine that they in fact don't score much when comparing.
Sabres rely (not relied) heavily on video scouting. How do you know? You don't.
I know you think I'm nitpicking. I just think if you're going to make a claim that the Sabres still heavily rely on video scouting, to provide a timely credible article as a basis for that claim. Instead you dig up somthing from over 18 months ago. Or that claim is simple not true.
If you're right, in comparison with other NHL clubs, I will easily change my opinion, and say you're right, they do heavily rely on it.
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I hope that was more of a general comment than a specific reference to my post but with the quote that's probably not the case. Nothing was said about top 6/top 4, especially in relation to third rounders since it's hard to draft someone in that round who turns into an everyday player let alone near the top of the depth chart. Possibly being a bust would fit better than probably since those players still need to develop but my definition of bust in that round is whether or not they are worthy of being on the roster for 82 games. In that sense the majority of third round picks end up being busts because as much as scouts know the game (or think they know the game) it's hard to project what an 18-20 year old will develop into when he's 25/26 and at his peak, especially for the lower tier players.
The other aspect that has been touched on is that developing players once they are drafted is equally if not more important than drafting the players in the first place. If the player isn't able to be coached to his fullest potential then the pick looks bad. Depending on which team or league the player is drafted from the team may be limited in this capacity but it's another factor to consider when drafting someone.
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joshjull
Registered User
Actually it's an incredibly useful tool. Not sure why you think otherwise. Its used to augment and assist the scouting staff. When done properly it allows a team to see many more players than they would otherwise. It gives a team leads for their scouting staff to follow up on.
jc17
Registered User
- Jun 14, 2013
- 11,248
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Djp
Registered User
What I am saying is that most 3rd round picks turn into nothing. 15% turn into serviceable players (bottom 6/ 5th-7th Dmen), 5% turn into quality players.
You made comment in your busts that it looked like a bunch of their 3rd round picks have turned into busts---the fact is most of them turn into busts and you dont rely on 3rd round picks to get anything.
3rd rounds or later developing is really not much on the system in place. If that was the case then some teams would be loaded getting tons of players in 4th-7th. That is not the case. The talent just isnt there. coaching and training goes only so far.
I dont judge 3rd round or later picks as bad picks if the dont become something.
Per draft the number of career NHLers that come out from rounds 4th-7th can be counted on 1 hand.
If the league changed the draft rules and said only 18 and 19 yr olds could be drafted in rounds 1 and 2 but for rounds 3 or later they would have to be 20 (AHL eligible/college/europe/done with CHL) then the success rate of the picks would go up.
It's funny that we agree that the Sabres have generally drafted well yet things are being harped on that aren't the crux of the posts. The information showing the first six years with the *** depicting the number of NHL games played was originally made by another poster in the other draft thread. Only the comment that followed and the next three years was my research. I used the terms hits/misses originally and should have used it again instead of busts since that word may imply that they were expected to produce in the first place which third round (or later) picks are not.
In nine years and 11 picks the team has so far managed four NHLers from the third round which is outstanding.
Every player drafted needs to develop. Even guys like Crosby, Malkin, and Stamkos need to develop. You're not going to turn a future beer league player drafted in the sixth round into a top line scorer but you can make sure talented players live up to their potential. It's about getting players to play hard, giving them tips on their skating or shooting to improve their overall game and for players to know what they're supposed to do on the ice with or without the puck. I edited my previous post to make it clear the originally posted "where" meant which team/league the players are drafted from not where in the draft. Let's just agree to agree that the team has generally drafted well and nit pick the nay-sayers, lol.
In nine years and 11 picks the team has so far managed four NHLers from the third round which is outstanding.
Every player drafted needs to develop. Even guys like Crosby, Malkin, and Stamkos need to develop. You're not going to turn a future beer league player drafted in the sixth round into a top line scorer but you can make sure talented players live up to their potential. It's about getting players to play hard, giving them tips on their skating or shooting to improve their overall game and for players to know what they're supposed to do on the ice with or without the puck. I edited my previous post to make it clear the originally posted "where" meant which team/league the players are drafted from not where in the draft. Let's just agree to agree that the team has generally drafted well and nit pick the nay-sayers, lol.
Insomniac99
Registered User
Not counting last year, we've had only two top 10 picks in the last 25 years! Vanek and Rasmussen. It's tough to get some top line players in the draft outside of the top 10.
NotABadPeriod
ForFriendshipDikembe
- Oct 28, 2006
- 52,481
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IMO you can't exclude Ballard because the Sabres were able to use him to get Drury. He didn't play a game, but as a pick he was excellent because his value enabled the team to make that trade. If instead of Ballard they picked Eminger or Grebeshkov (the next 2 D-men taken), they might not be able to pull off the deal for Drury.
Hejda I can understand because they chose not to sign him.
Ethan Edwards
Registered User
Obviously I don't want to speak for the other poster, but it's possible he meant it's "useless" as compared to in-person scouting of players, particularly when making talent evaluations. It's definitely an aid in providing leads on who to look at (as mentioned), or giving a quick snapshot of a player's game, or providing material for a team scout in anticipation of an upcoming game. But if the plan is to rely SOLELY on video to make drafting/evaluation decisions, then it is pretty limited. Even with a full ice feed, you can't get a true feel for the way a player skates, vision (most of the time), stick deftness, his interaction with teammates (goes to leadership qualities and other intangibles), and several other things. And while this only applies to certain contexts, though it's close to my heart, you can't actually meet the prospect on video, or talk to his coaches, or opponents, etc. Yes, it's absolutely part of the scouting dept's tool belt, but there are a lot of things that go into player evals that you can't get from video...or ISS or USHR reports or anecdotal stories or highlight films, etc. I'm sure that's why the Buffalo scouts were so frustrated by the video only mandate back then and I'm guessing that's what the poster meant by "useless".
