Ryan Hartman Match Penalty for "Attempt to Injure" on Tim Stützle (upd: in-person hearing - 10 games)

[Silky Johnson]

Who owns the Arena is rather important. One of the few ways a private company is restricted by the 1st amendment is when they're providing services on behalf of a government, the state action doctrine.

I'm not familiar with any cases regulating 1st amendment protections on an NHL; and I feel (as stated in my original post) that it may not qualify for the state action doctrine.

Basically a government can't 'launder' their 1st amendment restrictions by having a nominal 3rd (private) party censor people on their behalf.

Yes, they can.

If a government leases an office to a private business is that office considered a public space? It is not.

The classification of government-owned stadiums leased to private sports teams under the First Amendment hinges on the "public forum" doctrine. This doctrine delineates government properties into categories—traditional public forums, designated public forums, and nonpublic forums—each with varying levels of speech protection.

In Perry Education Association v. Perry Local Educators' Association, 460 U.S. 37 (1983), the U.S. Supreme Court outlined these distinctions:

Traditional Public Forums: Places like parks and sidewalks that have historically been open for public expression.

Designated Public Forums: Government properties intentionally opened for public discourse.

Nonpublic Forums: Government properties not traditionally nor intentionally opened for public communication.

The Court held that in nonpublic forums, the government can impose restrictions on speech as long as they are reasonable and not an effort to suppress expression merely because public officials oppose the speaker's view.

Applying this framework, courts have generally found that government-owned stadiums leased to private entities are considered nonpublic forums. For instance, in Camenzind v. California Exposition & State Fair, No. 22-15931 (9th Cir. Oct. 31, 2023), the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals determined that the California Exposition fairgrounds, when leased to private organizations, functioned as a nonpublic forum. The court emphasized that such properties are not traditionally open to public expression and that the government can impose reasonable restrictions on speech within these venues.

A government-owned stadium leased to a private sports team is typically classified as a nonpublic forum, where First Amendment protections are limited, and the government or lessee can enforce reasonable speech restrictions.

Also, its not important regarding Hartman as this is an employment issue rather than public forum issue.

 

[winnipegger]

When it's an odd and unusual way of going for the head I think you impose max penalties to make a point that it's unacceptable.

 

[f7ben]

I like Ryan Hartman as a player and I have defended him in the past.

He has been dogshit this year and his actions here are unable to be defended by any means.

He needs to decide if he want to continue to be a productive skilled agitator or if he wants to be Matt Cooke. If it’s the latter he can f*** off for good.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Yes, they can.

If a government leases an office to a private business is that office considered a public space? It is not.

The classification of government-owned stadiums leased to private sports teams under the First Amendment hinges on the "public forum" doctrine. This doctrine delineates government properties into categories—traditional public forums, designated public forums, and nonpublic forums—each with varying levels of speech protection.

In Perry Education Association v. Perry Local Educators' Association, 460 U.S. 37 (1983), the U.S. Supreme Court outlined these distinctions:

Traditional Public Forums: Places like parks and sidewalks that have historically been open for public expression.

Designated Public Forums: Government properties intentionally opened for public discourse.

Nonpublic Forums: Government properties not traditionally nor intentionally opened for public communication.

The Court held that in nonpublic forums, the government can impose restrictions on speech as long as they are reasonable and not an effort to suppress expression merely because public officials oppose the speaker's view.

Applying this framework, courts have generally found that government-owned stadiums leased to private entities are considered nonpublic forums. For instance, in Camenzind v. California Exposition & State Fair, No. 22-15931 (9th Cir. Oct. 31, 2023), the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals determined that the California Exposition fairgrounds, when leased to private organizations, functioned as a nonpublic forum. The court emphasized that such properties are not traditionally open to public expression and that the government can impose reasonable restrictions on speech within these venues.

A government-owned stadium leased to a private sports team is typically classified as a nonpublic forum, where First Amendment protections are limited, and the government or lessee can enforce reasonable speech restrictions.

Also, its not important regarding Hartman as this is an employment issue rather than public forum issue.

How about we talk about Hartman, and not the first amendment, y’all find a different thread for that crap.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

He can say he’s not defending him until he’s blue in the face but the rest of his words are speaking much louder.

Only to you, it seems.

I don't clutch my pearls when I see a middle finger, and I think the old videos of coaches freaking out and tossing sticks on the ice are pretty funny. If you think that's me defending him (I'm not) for the other 9 things, then I don't know what to tell you. I find those 2 things to be much different than elbows, knees, boards, slew-foots and whatever you want to call what he did in here.

 

[Silky Johnson]

He can say he’s not defending him until he’s blue in the face but the rest of his words are speaking much louder.

His words

"I am NOT defending him, but one of those fines was for a middle finger, and one of those suspensions was throwing a stick onto the ice/towards an official.

Still, too much, and he should get pretty well slammed."

His last sentence sums up his post.

WTF are you that unable to concede a point when you are clearly wrong? It's a bad look. Take the L, apologise and move on...

How about we talk about Hartman, and not the first amendment, y’all find a different thread for that crap.

You can ignore if you are interested.

Added: It is about Hartman and his right or lack there of to flip people off at work...

 

[Knave]

What's the longest one of these hearings has dragged on? Usually we hear before 6pm EST or maybe I am talking out of my ass.

I always think when "hearing Monday afternoon" 2-4pm EST as an expectation but typically from what I recall it's usually 4-5pm EST you get the announcement.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

I like Ryan Hartman as a player and I have defended him in the past.

He has been dogshit this year and his actions here are unable to be defended by any means.

He needs to decide if he want to continue to be a productive skilled agitator or if he wants to be Matt Cooke. If it’s the latter he can f*** off for good.

i think he's already decided though

 

[aylib]

Any day now

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Any day now

 

[gritdash60]

Same dude every time, wonder when he accidentally brings a machine gun on the ice and accidentally fires it?

 

[Dingo]

Same dude every time, wonder when he accidentally brings a machine gun on the ice and accidentally fires it?

i doubt he wants a FOUR game suspension!!!

 

[Kevinsane]

Wow. As neither a Sens or Wild fan and with no dog in the fight, this is one of the most indefensibly disgusting things I’ve seen in my 55 years of watching hockey.
More than gutless, it’s just DUMB. If you’re going to be dirty, at least dress it up in a hockey play so you can claim you didn’t mean to.

 

[gritdash60]

i doubt he wants a FOUR game suspension!!!

Very rarely i burst out laughing at a comment but this one was great. Can't stop laughing at the image.

"Ryan Hartman has been offered an in-person hearing for shooting people on the ice"

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

He's going to get at least 10. Targeting the head like that on a non-hockey play is about as dirty and indefensible as it gets.

Also Hartman is going to be in serious trouble next time he faces the Sens. Timmy is one of Brady's closest friends, he is going to be seeing red and he's going to tune Hartman up for sure.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Very rarely i burst out laughing at a comment but this one was great. Can't stop laughing at the image.

"Ryan Hartman has been offered an in-person hearing for shooting people on the ice"

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Yes, they can.

If a government leases an office to a private business is that office considered a public space? It is not.

The classification of government-owned stadiums leased to private sports teams under the First Amendment hinges on the "public forum" doctrine. This doctrine delineates government properties into categories—traditional public forums, designated public forums, and nonpublic forums—each with varying levels of speech protection.

In Perry Education Association v. Perry Local Educators' Association, 460 U.S. 37 (1983), the U.S. Supreme Court outlined these distinctions:

Traditional Public Forums: Places like parks and sidewalks that have historically been open for public expression.

Designated Public Forums: Government properties intentionally opened for public discourse.

Nonpublic Forums: Government properties not traditionally nor intentionally opened for public communication.

The Court held that in nonpublic forums, the government can impose restrictions on speech as long as they are reasonable and not an effort to suppress expression merely because public officials oppose the speaker's view.

Applying this framework, courts have generally found that government-owned stadiums leased to private entities are considered nonpublic forums. For instance, in Camenzind v. California Exposition & State Fair, No. 22-15931 (9th Cir. Oct. 31, 2023), the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals determined that the California Exposition fairgrounds, when leased to private organizations, functioned as a nonpublic forum. The court emphasized that such properties are not traditionally open to public expression and that the government can impose reasonable restrictions on speech within these venues.

A government-owned stadium leased to a private sports team is typically classified as a nonpublic forum, where First Amendment protections are limited, and the government or lessee can enforce reasonable speech restrictions.

Also, its not important regarding Hartman as this is an employment issue rather than public forum issue.

I agreed with your response in my second paragraph. My final paragraph is about a nominally private entity.

 

[3074326]

Who cares?

Why are you acting like I'm the one who makes the rules? Ask the NHL why they made it a rule. What even are you trying to prove? The dude got fined for doing something the NHL doesn't allow. The constitution is completely irrelevant in this scenario.

Could've and should've said "who cares" to your dumbass post about your constitutional rights that are not the same as what your employer allows.

 

[gritdash60]

View attachment 972012

What will you do during this suspension?

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

I’d say 3-4 games

Should be more though

 

[CHwest]

One of the most repeated offenders ever, without exaggerati

What a shitbag on skates

Enjoy your suspension, asswipe

He has that vibe, no doubt if he wasn't playing hockey he would have been jailed on something by now, no emotional control at all.

I like Ryan Hartman as a player and I have defended him in the past.

He has been dogshit this year and his actions here are unable to be defended by any means.

He needs to decide if he want to continue to be a productive skilled agitator or if he wants to be Matt Cooke. If it’s the latter he can f*** off for good.

I think he's decided...

 

[Koivu11]

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

The dumb f*** got it easy. 10 games too short.

 

[CorgisPer60]

Called it.

 

[NyQuil]

More than I expected to be honest.