RW Matvei Michkov (2023, 7th, PHI) Part 4

[bert]

Folks are talking about him as a quasi-generational player, as someone who should go alongside Bedard, or ahead of Leo Carlsson. That raises the bar. If you want to compare him to Eduard Sale then sure we cab be a bit more patient.

He's definitely a better prospect than Carlsson.

 

[kp61c]

Folks are talking about him as a quasi-generational player, as someone who should go alongside Bedard, or ahead of Leo Carlsson. That raises the bar. If you want to compare him to Eduard Sale then sure we cab be a bit more patient.

The wjc showed Carlson is in the same tier with Sale and Fantili and that the bar is not very high.

 

[Czechboy]

The wjc showed Carlson is in the same tier with Sale and Fantili and that the bar is not very high.

I'm ecstatic that Sale is being considered in the tier of Fantili and Carlson to be honest. Michkov and Bedard are not like the others!

 

[Zine]

Folks are talking about him as a quasi-generational player, as someone who should go alongside Bedard, or ahead of Leo Carlsson. That raises the bar. If you want to compare him to Eduard Sale then sure we cab be a bit more patient.

Most people are viewing Michkov through the prism of a higher bar. They're astute enough to realize he's not playing against children like Bedard is.

What Michkov is doing is insane. He's blowing away Kucherov, Panarin, Kaprizov, etc. both in league and international play.
He also looks slightly better than Ovechkin, and way better than Malkin at the same age too. And the KHL is better than the old RSL.

Nitpicking fixable things is just petty.

What I am concerned about is his lack of size and strength. Michkov is tiny; 5-8 148. Sure he'll grow but I'm not expecting anything over 175.
Has there ever been a severely undersized generation player? I don't think so.
You can have all the talent in the world, but at some point a lack of size limits your full-range abilities. It could mean the difference between an Ovechkin and a Patrick Kane.

 

[Kamaya Painters]

The wjc showed Carlson is in the same tier with Sale and Fantili and that the bar is not very high.

Leo Carlsson played the whole WJC without being fit.

 

[Caser]

Most people are viewing Michkov through the prism of a higher bar. They're astute enough to realize he's not playing against children like Bedard is.

What Michkov is doing is insane. He's blowing away Kucherov, Panarin, Kaprizov, etc. both in league and international play.
He also looks slightly better than Ovechkin, and way better than Malkin at the same age too. And the KHL is better than the old RSL.

Nitpicking fixable things is just petty.

What I am concerned about is his lack of size and strength. Michkov is tiny; 5-8 148. Sure he'll grow but I'm not expecting anything over 175.
Has there ever been a severely undersized generation player? I don't think so.
You can have all the talent in the world, but at some point a lack of size limits your full-range abilities. It could mean the difference between an Ovechkin and a Patrick Kane.

According to Michkov's interview two years ago, he was 176cm/5'9" back then. Currently he is listed at 178cm/5'10".

 

[Fantomas]

According to Michkov's interview two years ago, he was 176cm/5'9" back then. Currently he is listed at 178cm/5'10".

Yeah I'm baffled by this recent talk of Michkov being small. He's not Lane Hutson. Bedard is small too.

 

[MichaelFarrell]

Yeah I'm baffled by this recent talk of Michkov being small. He's not Lane Hutson. Bedard is small too.

Michkov is small compared to his competition on the ice. I think that’s where it stems from. Whenever I watch Sochi, my thought is always that he is noticeably small. Obviously, he’s only 18 and Bedard would look pretty small as well in the same league.

 

[LT]

Michkov's shift-by-shift vs Ak Bars (Radulov's team), he's #39. You can get all the scouting out of it...

Thanks for posting this, very insightful.

Wicked shot and a very strong skater. Considering his age and size, it's amazing that he doesn't really look out of place physically.

Does seem to over pursue the puck a lot, and his positioning in general seems rough. He's either too close to his teammate with the puck or nowhere near the play at all fairly often.

 

[majormajor]

The wjc showed Carlson is in the same tier with Sale and Fantili and that the bar is not very high.

Regardless of whether Carlsson was fit in the WJC or not, he looks better to me vs men than Michkov does. You watch him in the SHL and he's dominating at times. Michkov isn't nearly as effective vs men. And yes that's a kid vs men and we have to be patient, but Carlsson is in the same situation and the same age. Even using the crudest NHLe models they both look high end and one of these guys looks a lot better than the other, with a better pro game and infinitely better build for the NHL game.

 

[BB88]

Most people are viewing Michkov through the prism of a higher bar. They're astute enough to realize he's not playing against children like Bedard is.

What Michkov is doing is insane. He's blowing away Kucherov, Panarin, Kaprizov, etc. both in league and international play.
He also looks slightly better than Ovechkin, and way better than Malkin at the same age too. And the KHL is better than the old RSL.

Nitpicking fixable things is just petty.

What I am concerned about is his lack of size and strength. Michkov is tiny; 5-8 148. Sure he'll grow but I'm not expecting anything over 175.
Has there ever been a severely undersized generation player? I don't think so.
You can have all the talent in the world, but at some point a lack of size limits your full-range abilities. It could mean the difference between an Ovechkin and a Patrick Kane.

You realize Kucherov was a late 2nd round pick, Kaprizov a 5th round pick, Panarin went undrafted?

 

[Zine]

Yeah I'm baffled by this recent talk of Michkov being small. He's not Lane Hutson. Bedard is small too.

Michkov is the 3rd lightest player in the entire league. 2nd lightest if we're talking regulars; 2nd to only some Chinese 4th liner on Kunlun.

 

[Zine]

You realize Kucherov was a late 2nd round pick, Kaprizov a 5th round pick, Panarin went undrafted?

That only goes to show how piss poor NHL teams are at drafting Russian talent.

 

[BB88]

At least scoring in the KHL has become a bit lower and numbers are proving that. So not sure if for an goalscorer it is easier to be successful now, although it helps that young players are getting more opportunities and trust now.

Ofcourse any league will or would suffer if they lost the amount of talent KHL did.

It’s a more forgiving league.
Easier to break in, easier to get more chances, you get easier match ups more often.

That only goes to show how piss poor NHL teams are at drafting Russian talent.

Or they were late bloomers?

 

[Zine]

Ofcourse any league will or would suffer if they lost the amount of talent KHL did.

It’s a more forgiving league.
Easier to break in, easier to get more chances, you get easier match ups more often.



Or they were late bloomers?

Only Panarin maybe. Kucherov and Kaprizov, not at all.

 

[Fantomas]

Michkov is the 3rd lightest player in the entire league. 2nd lightest if we're talking regulars; 2nd to only some Chinese 4th liner on Kunlun.

He'll fill out and go nuts on the KHL.

Or they were late bloomers?

Except maybe Panarin, these guys had impressive results all along. I think all were dismissed because they were underscouted and fairly slight of build.

Panarin would have been better known if the MHL existed before 2009. That league helped many guys get better exposure, but scouts still overlooked the results.

 

[Caser]

Ofcourse any league will or would suffer if they lost the amount of talent KHL did.

It’s a more forgiving league.
Easier to break in, easier to get more chances, you get easier match ups more often.

Easier to break in - yes.
Easier to get more chances - maybe a bit, but not much - see Yurov's chances for example.
Easier match ups - for a goalscorer likely no, as I mentioned goalscoring has become even more difficult.

Or they were late bloomers?

Late blooming Kucherov, who still holds the U18 World Championships scoring record he set in his draft year.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

Is this good or bad news for Michkov?

 

[MichaelFarrell]

Is this good or bad news for Michkov?

If anything probably bad. I don’t have the numbers, but it doesn’t seem like Michkov was buried on that team. They let him play. I was watching his game against Vityaz the other day for example and he was on the ice down a goal in some of the last few shifts of the game.

Sochi is just a bad team. They have 6 wins in 52 games.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Is this good or bad news for Michkov?

I don't think he will be impacted much.

Svetlov really started trusting Michkov a lot toward the end but the new coach is going to understand full well what situation he is in. He has also worked with Russian U18s a lot in the past so should be a pretty decent junior coach, in theory. Furthermore, the biggest upside of coaching in Sochi is to get into the SKA system. So developing Michkov and creating a good relationship with him seems like the obvious thing to do in this scenario.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I heard he's signed till 2025-26. so what are the chances he's in the NHL before this? will a team use a top 5 pick for a player they may not get until he's 23-24 years old?

 

[BB88]

He'll fill out and go nuts on the KHL.



Except maybe Panarin, these guys had impressive results all along. I think all were dismissed because they were underscouted and fairly slight of build.

Panarin would have been better known if the MHL existed before 2009. That league helped many guys get better exposure, but scouts still overlooked the results.

You think they were franchise prospects in their draft seasons?

Easier to break in - yes.
Easier to get more chances - maybe a bit, but not much - see Yurov's chances for example.
Easier match ups - for a goalscorer likely no, as I mentioned goalscoring has become even more difficult.


Late blooming Kucherov, who still holds the U18 World Championships scoring record he set in his draft year.

If the competition gets lighter and you get more easier match ups more often then absolutely it makes it easier to play in the league and succeed.

Same question, you think Kucherov was a franchise prospect at that time and didn’t have question marks around his game?

 

[SoundAndFury]

The issue with the line BB88 (and I guess others in his camp) are towing is that their whole argument revolves around "Michkov isn't as good as people say he is because there isn't enough evidence to support it / I don't find the evidence convincing".

This is fair enough, you don't find it convincing but what is the evidence that he IS NOT as good as people say? It's easy to continuously nitpick and find flaws in any argument while not providing any arguments that support your position at all. And the arguments that do come, like "oh it's easier to score in the KHL now" come from a very superficial level of KHL knowledge (discussed in length by me, Caser, and other people in the previous thread).

Other than his size which is a fairly legitimate concern mentioned by me, Zine, etc., what is the evidence that Michkov IS NOT a generational prospect (whatever that means) which can't be classified under the good old "Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man."?

 

[Caser]

You think they were franchise prospects in their draft seasons?



If the competition gets lighter and you get more easier match ups more often then absolutely it makes it easier to play in the league and succeed.

Same question, you think Kucherov was a franchise prospect at that time and didn’t have question marks around his game?

The defensive side of the competition in the KHL suffered much less if suffered at all actually: while the number of foreign goalies have notably decreased, the domestic goalie production made it almost not noticeable and the number of foreign defensive defensemen probably didn't decrease even on paper.

As for Kucherov, he (and the fact that he fell so much at the draft) was one of the main reason I started following prospects closely at all, so I guess it can be said I saw and thought something. Question marks are there for every prospect though without any exceptions, for Kucherov it was the size, as back in 2011 5'10" was considered a bit on a smaller side.

 

[Osakahaus]

Leo Carlsson played the whole WJC without being fit.

thats concerning, but it was mainly from sickness