RW Matvei Michkov (2023, 7th, PHI) Part 4

[HeadLiceHatty]

Talking about +/-

https://x.com/i/web/status/1849274615220289748

So far it's super frustrating with the Flyers and feels like Sochi all over again.

I was really hoping Zamula could figure it out but he’s actually so horrendous and so bad at making decisions it’s crazy lol, incredibly low IQ player.

Still people used to rant a lot about Bedard's +/- last season.

Neither he or Bedard are going to be defensive players, the only way I’ve ranted about it, is Bedard, he’s allowed to cheat as a Center for more points / favorable breakouts but Michkov does it too at times, so it’s tit for tat can’t hate on either. They will have very similar rookie year stats the Flyers are a complete dumpster fire as are the Blackhawk’s

 

[antman12]

Couturier still, thankfully, has some jump in him and can win faceoffs... that's a huge plus over Frost to just win Ozone draws and keep the pressure cooking.

Frost loses every single PP Faceoff…it’s maddening.

Frost loses Faceoff, puck goes behind the net and the PK dman dumps it. Repeat.

More often than not the first Flyer to touch the puck on our PP is our goalie. Lmao.

 

[Guadana]

KHL production only means something if you’re a Montreal fan and if it’s Demidov. “Generational“ btw.

Its not Demidovs fault that some part(again. some part) of Mtl fan base hate Michkov, saying that Reinbacher is more important, dying with sh1tting on him and creating some fake narratives about his character, about his desire to play only for one team etc.
Demidov is close to be generational, he is really great player. May be not as good as Michkov, may be on the level.

 

[SlobKnox]

Its not Demidovs fault that some part(again. some part) of Mtl fan base hate Michkov, saying that Reinbacher is more important, dying with sh1tting on him and creating some fake narratives about his character, about his desire to play only for one team etc.
Demidov is close to be generational, he is really great player. May be not as good as Michkov, may be on the level.

People use generational so much that it loses its meaning at this point

 

[Guadana]

People use generational so much that it loses its meaning at this point

As I said - he is close to be generational. Not saying he is. Of course we should agree what does it mean. In 21st century its only Crosby, Ovechkin and McDavid?

 

[Kshahdoo]

He's 62.5% on the dot. Yeah, just 8 attempts, but still not bad. Maybe he should play center?

 

[kp61c]

He's 62.5% on the dot. Yeah, just 8 attempts, but still not bad. Maybe he should play center?

a center that cheats on defense. great idea.

 

[SlobKnox]

As I said - he is close to be generational. Not saying he is. Of course we should agree what does it mean. In 21st century its only Crosby, Ovechkin and McDavid?

I don’t even see how he is close to generational, He is seen as a lesser prospect than Celebrini who was seen as a Fantilli level prospect

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

He's 62.5% on the dot. Yeah, just 8 attempts, but still not bad. Maybe he should play center?

No reason to burden him with the responsibilities of a center, especially under Torts.

Maybe in 2-3 years, if his top end skating improves and he shows a desire to defend more.

But his ability to delay with the puck, hold off defenders, and find trailing teammates streaking into the zone plays makes him an ideal "up ice option" for stretch passes that allow his team to gain controlled offensive zone possession without attempting a high traffic zone entry. Not dissimilar to guys like Kucherov, Tkachuk, and prime Huberdeau. As a center, that's a skillset that would largely go to waste.

I don’t even see how he is close to generational, He is seen as a lesser prospect than Celebrini who was seen as a Fantilli level prospect

Perception isn't really what dictates a generational talent.

But I agree, Michkov will be an elite offensive player, but I don't see a generational player. There hasn't been a generational talent drafted since 2015.

 

[FlyguyOX]

This is the most comfortable and "involved" hes been all year. Natural as its only his 7th game, but hes been all over the place in the ozone. Also been in a handful of caps face. He definitely has a little dawg in him.

It was funny, on the faceoff prior to his goal Carlson (I believe) tried to big brother him and rough him up and 39 was too strong on his skates and hardly moved.

Wouldn't be surprised at all to see him involved in a game tying goal down the stretch here..

Michkov showing that compete level last night that I told everyone Torts would adore him for.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Michkov showing that compete level last night that I told everyone Torts would adore him for.

Anyone questioning Michkov's competitiveness clearly wasn't watching this guy in Russia and was drinking the Canadian media kool aid. Dude has always been a puck hound.

That's not to say he hasn't been guilty of floating a bit defensively in the past, but show me a young offensive phenom who hasn't been criticized of that. His work ethic on the ice is an advantage he has over the majority of top offensive prospects.

 

[FlyguyOX]

I was really hoping Zamula could figure it out but he’s actually so horrendous and so bad at making decisions it’s crazy lol, incredibly low IQ player.



Neither he or Bedard are going to be defensive players, the only way I’ve ranted about it, is Bedard, he’s allowed to cheat as a Center for more points / favorable breakouts but Michkov does it too at times, so it’s tit for tat can’t hate on either. They will have very similar rookie year stats the Flyers are a complete dumpster fire as are the Blackhawk’s

Yeah wingers are supposed to cheat a bit, centers not lol.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

As I said - he is close to be generational. Not saying he is. Of course we should agree what does it mean. In 21st century its only Crosby, Ovechkin and McDavid?

I would add Malkin to that list, and actually put him ahead of Ovechkin on the list of generational talents. OV gets bonus points for longevity and health, but to me Malkin was the greater overall talent.

But honestly both would fall just a hair below generational for me simply because they weren't the best player in their generation.

 

[SlobKnox]

No reason to burden him with the responsibilities of a center, especially under Torts.

Maybe in 2-3 years, if his top end skating improves and he shows a desire to defend more.

But his ability to delay with the puck, hold off defenders, and find trailing teammates streaking into the zone plays makes him an ideal "up ice option" for stretch passes that allow his team to gain controlled offensive zone possession without attempting a high traffic zone entry. Not dissimilar to guys like Kucherov, Tkachuk, and prime Huberdeau. As a center, that's a skillset that would largely go to waste.


Perception isn't really what dictates a generational talent.

But I agree, Michkov will be an elite offensive player, but I don't see a generational player. There hasn't been a generational talent drafted since 2015.

Perception is indeed what determines a generational talent. A prospect is drafted on what he is “perceived” to become in the league. This is how players like Slaf go first over all

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Perception is indeed what determines a generational talent. A prospect is drafted on what he is “perceived” to become in the league. This is how players like Slaf go first over all

As a prospect, sure, but when all is said and done it that label is earned be based on their actual performance in the NHL.

Michkov being perceived as a worse prospect than Celebrini doesn't mean much. Just like how Bedard was seen as a generational talent when he pretty clearly was not.

 

[Guadana]

I would add Malkin to that list, and actually put him ahead of Ovechkin on the list of generational talents. OV gets bonus points for longevity and health, but to me Malkin was the greater overall talent.

But honestly both would fall just a hair below generational for me simply because they weren't the best player in their generation.

Malkin isn’t over Ovechkin. I don’t know is Malkin generational or not but he definitely not over Ovechkin.

And Ovechkin is ofcourse generational. He is second best scorer in the history now. Won enough of personal awards too. A couple of team awards too.

 

[Appleyard]

a center that cheats on defense. great idea.

Worked for Malkin the last 20 years or so aha.

 

[Guadana]

I don’t even see how he is close to generational, He is seen as a lesser prospect than Celebrini who was seen as a Fantilli level prospect

He can be second best modern Russian player. Not like “second best just because other are bad” but second best as regular ~85-100 points player. It’s his peak and absolute ceiling but he has tools for it. If he will be good enough - it’s close to be generational, because next step is literally top notch. But of course it’s just too early to call him generational, absolutely. But he is definitely elite prospect because he has tools and track record to be elite nhler. Of course if everything will work in right direction (it works this way for any “labeled”prospect).

As Celebrini as Demidov showing something more than Fantilli. It’s not their problem that someone are comparing them with Fantilli in one or other way. Ask who compared.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Malkin isn’t over Ovechkin. I don’t know is Malkin generational or not but he definitely not over Ovechkin.

And Ovechkin is ofcourse generational. He is second best scorer in the history now. Won enough of personal awards too. A couple of team awards too.

Agree to disagree. I think Ovechkin is a generational goal scorer, but not a generational player. Sidney Crosby was the best player of that generation.

And I would take Malkin's peak over Ovechkin's. More productive player who did more to elevate his linemates while playing the more important position.

 

[Kshahdoo]

When Malkin was "the man" and didn't have problems with health yet, he was like nobody else. Poor man Mario which was actually still crazy good.

 

[Svedu]

Agree to disagree. I think Ovechkin is a generational goal scorer, but not a generational player. Sidney Crosby was the best player of that generation.

And I would take Malkin's peak over Ovechkin's. More productive player who did more to elevate his linemates while playing the more important position.

If you can become the best goalscorer in the NHL ever this year or the next, how in the actual hell aren't you considered as generational player? Do you honestly believe your own bulls*t? Hilarious take.

Just because Crosby is generational doesn't exclude the fact that Ovie is that too. I mean the difference amongst Messi and Ronaldo is bigger imo and both are considered as generational talents and rightly so. The numbers they've produced at times when all opponents have been full time pro's in comparison with the old days?
If anything Ovies numbers are even more impressing than Gretzkys for me and this comes from a finn. He's played in a era with a lot better goalies and against a lot more even opponents with a considerably higher minimum level.

Please just stop that bogus already. It's like stating that Lemieux and Jagr weren't generational because they played at the same time. Lol!

At the end of the day, both Ovie and Crosby are better than every prospect playing now with McDavid as the only one possible to reach same heights even if he hasn't carried a lot of teams to gold. My point in this? This should open your eyes to the fact that both Ovie and Crosby are generational because history shows that it will be very difficult to achieve and repeat their success.
Like honestly, if you buy a game for an example? Say NHL, do you honestly think that only Crosby would be considered as generational? I mean no, nope, hell no, your statement is nothing but ridiculous. Ovie would probably and actually should be one of the best in a created game. Therefor he is... What? Generational. He will be far more remembered than others you consider as generational.

I mean it's consensus by now that Ovie is generational. But always entertained with your exaggerations and attempts to "Sell" your opinions and hot takes. Truly impressed.

 

[Guadana]

Agree to disagree. I think Ovechkin is a generational goal scorer, but not a generational player. Sidney Crosby was the best player of that generation.

And I would take Malkin's peak over Ovechkin's. More productive player who did more to elevate his linemates while playing the more important position.

Not agree. Ovechkin is top-13 in points and second best in goals. I didnt said Crosby wasnt. But its okay to call top-13 points scorer as generational talent, especially when he is second best goal scorer in the league history, won 9 richards. won Stanley Cup and a couple of other awards.

This bias against Ovechkin is close to call Reinbacher as more important player potentially. I would say it is more brutal. Michkov and Reinbacher didnt play full season at least. By his example and play Ovechkin already created freaking GENERATION of young players who decided to play hockey and oriented their game on Ovechkin's video on youtube. A lot of fans of hockey are existing because of Ovechkin, his game and his competition between him and Crosby. Go check how big the difference is in views between best videos of "Ovechkin highlights" and "Crosby highlights" on youtube(and dont forget about Ovechkin is 13th best in points and 2nd best in goals). And Im not telling Crosby isnt generational.

But Ovechkin is. He achieved everything and his name is in the history books of hockey on the first page. And he literally more famous hockey player all over the world of his generation. So, no. Not agree to disagree.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Agree to disagree. I think Ovechkin is a generational goal scorer, but not a generational player. Sidney Crosby was the best player of that generation.

And I would take Malkin's peak over Ovechkin's. More productive player who did more to elevate his linemates while playing the more important position.

Topic for another thread, but not sure I agree with this take. Ovechkin contributed more to his team winning and was a freak with his size/skating combo to go with it, without a generational teammate to play alongside.

 

[SlobKnox]

As a prospect, sure, but when all is said and done it that label is earned be based on their actual performance in the NHL.

Michkov being perceived as a worse prospect than Celebrini doesn't mean much. Just like how Bedard was seen as a generational talent when he pretty clearly was not.

Bedard is a generational prospect what is done once he is solidified as pro doesnt have any barring on that. If he lives up to the billing doesn’t change what he was as a prospect

 

[FlyguyOX]

Bedard is a generational prospect what is done once he is solidified as pro doesnt have any barring on that. If he lives up to the billing doesn’t change what he was as a prospect

I suppose this argument could be made merely looking at his statistical profile.