It's a pretty typical argument when it comes to projections, though. When a Prospect A is better than a Player B was as a prospect people usually consider the kid has a good chance to become the better player than the guy.
RW Matvei Michkov (2023, 7th, PHI) Part 4
- Thread starter GermanSpitfire
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It's a pretty typical argument when it comes to projections, though. When a Prospect A is better than a Player B was as a prospect people usually consider the kid has a good chance to become the better player than the guy.
TheKrebsCycle
Throwing Confetti for Perfetti
Overrated or a cancer . lol . Going to be some humble pie eaten imo once he hits the show .
People can consider whatever they want but that doesn’t make it factual or accurate. There’s plenty of data and research showing that development in elite male athletes is not linear. Michkov will likely be a superb NHL player. But he’s highly unlikely to be more productive than Kucherov, who was clearly a late bloomer. But I guess we’ll know definitively in 10-15 years.
Lol, late bloomer who set the U18 WJC scoring record. Is Hagens a late bloomer as well?
Guadana
Registered User
This reason is stupidity of a couple of GMs. Fans don't need to breath in this copium.
Its hard to be overrated with his IQ and results, its hard to be cancer with his level of competitiveness. Its a mark of star.
Guadana
Registered User
I'm big believer but it is still lower chance for Michkov to be better than Kucherov. And its not knock on Michkov. Bedard has lower chance to be better than Kucherov or AM.
Both have chances to be better, its just to early to wait for it. AM is going to be top-10/top-5 scorer in the history, may be top-3. Kucherov made 100a season - very rare destination. He is second best player of the actual generation. Even with better results Michkov and Bedard should adapt their game and learn a lot of new things on NHL level. Some players make it better, some are not as good. Im not telling that both will be busts, I don't think so, its just AM and Kucheriv who knows how to play and what they should do and they are doing it on the top level of the entire history of NHL. Its just hard. I still think that Muchkov and Bedard have potential to be 90-110+ points players (it does matter who will be their partners, McDavid, AM and even Kucherov play with great players, Michkov is in the very bad situation now in philly(sorry, fans), Bedard is in better situation but still we don't know about their talent, will they play on the level of Marner or Draisaitl). But its just hard to produce 140 points or score 65+ goals.
Sacha BOXviert
GoHawks
- Jul 20, 2022
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At the moment Bedard is already a better player than AM and Kucherov at the same age. And Michkov probably too.
we will see
we will see
TheKrebsCycle
Throwing Confetti for Perfetti
Huh ? Matthews scored 4 goals his first game and 40 his rookie season . He has the potential to pass Matthews but he didn’t top his rookie year me thinks …
which do you think is harder to acquire in the NHL.
A high-end first line winger or two-way top pairing RHD?
The Gr8 Dane
L'harceleur
I don't think the Habs passed on Michkov because of positional need , i genuinely think , right or wrong ( probably wrong ) , they were just not that high on Michkov for whatever reason
That’a a fair argument but they also said that RHD was a need and Reinbacher was up there on their list with the other top talents.
Most contenders need to patch holes here and there via trade or FA to take the next step and become favorites to win cups. Some are able to and some aren’t (Toronto being a good example here).
Which comes back to my initial question when you think long term and building out a winner; Is it harder to find a high-end first line winger or two-way top pairing RHD?
Logic would say it is much easier to find an elite winger on the trade market or FA than filling out a top pairing RHD need and it would cost much less in terms of assets to acquire a winger
TheKrebsCycle
Throwing Confetti for Perfetti
I’ll take the elite game changer winger over the maybe top 4 d . Right handed or not . Depends on the team situation but in a vacuum I just feel Michkov will be the more impactful player / asset moving forward . I don’t find Rein all that dynamic
Okay so now Michkov is an elite game changer and Reinbacher is maybe a top 4 D?
I’m curious about the bolded. How many games of each players have you watched over the last two years?
TheKrebsCycle
Throwing Confetti for Perfetti
A lot more of the former . That’s just what I believe . I think Michkov will be a star .
Guadana
Registered User
Its not that hard to think this way with actual info we have.
Guadana
Registered User
Games of the past season, track record, producing metrics. For everybody who cant watch games - youtube has nice shift by shift videos.
Awesome. So what makes you think that Reinbacher is *maybe* going to be a top 4 D? What did you like in his game and what didn’t you like?
Guadana
Registered User
As khl tv and some sites with translations I can't name. I watching ~40 games of Michkov and 12-15 games of Reinbacher in two years is enough.
But hockeydb helps too.
I didn't watch his AHL games, its important to mention. Im not a big fan of his skating, he is good skater for his size but he isn't very good or great. First step isn't very good. I would question his positional decision making against the cycling. Again - not bad/not very good now. And I would say he didn't look as dynamic enough as you would like to see from your defensive driver. Especially if we are comparing him with talent of Michkov level. Is Reinbacher passer or playmaker? I didn't decide yet for myself. Would be better to look at how he is adapting on AHL level.
Michkov shouldn't be very good defensively because he isn't defenseman and he has exceptional offensive tools and vision. And he still read the game well to forecheck right player in right spot in o zone.
So for me Reinbacher has 35-45 points middle and 50-60 points ceiling(1st pair defenseman still if everything will going well) on my eye test with good/very good but not great defensive game. Michkov has 100+ points ceiling if he will play with goid partners with 70-85 points(~1ppg) middle if he will not have good partners or injuries will effect his game. Its a different stratosphere. And he would have good partners in Montreal.
I would be very interested to know how you came to that conclusion for Reinbacher. His biggest strengths are by far his gap control vs attackers, defensive positioning in the slot, skating and first pass. What he needs to work on is his stick work (which isn't that bad for a 19 years old) and use his body to protect the puck better on 1 on 1 battles. He was +6 on a team that went 4-7 in the last stretch and -16 in goal diff in that span. Very small sample size but he made a difference for Laval when he was on the ice. His skating is also above average so I'm not exactly sure what's the problem here.
I do agree that he should project in the 40-50 points on average in his prime. I don't think anyone expects him to become an offensive dynamo but his puck retrivial skill, skating, first pass and ability to eat a tons of minutes should make him a prime candidate for a first pair on a contender. Think prime Devon Toews but a bit bigger and stronger.
He also doesn't need to put up 65-75 points a year to be a #1 D. Look at a guy like Pietrangelo. He never had more than 54 points in a season yet he's a very solid #1 D and is able to play in all situations. Prime Reinbacher should be able to have the same kind of impact on a game/playoff series and that is more valuable to me than an elite winger who can put up 85-90 points - or at least much, much harder to find.
TheKrebsCycle
Throwing Confetti for Perfetti
Michkov will vie for the rocket in his prime . Additionally I think you’re being optimistic w Reins offence . But time will tell
Guadana
Registered User
Gap control isn’t the same as positioning against the cycling.
His skating isn’t on the level with Heiskanen, Hughes(x2), Simashev, Sanderson etc. And he looks less mobile than Nemec on the shorter distances. So like I said - good but not great. I think Toews is better skater.
First pass isn’t the same as playmaking and decision making on the blue line in O zone cycling. And like I said I Didn’t decided yet what I thinking about this aspect, I saw as very good as not so great moments. For teenager in a good league it could be a growing process.
Puck protection against adult competition is a thing he will fix I believe. It’s more natural to develop.
So even from your words you are mentioning Pietro as his best case scenario . I don’t think Toews is more valuable than 1ppg+ winger. And I don’t think that Pietro is more valuable than 100+ points players. Offensive creators of this level is not just foundation- they are faces of franchises and league overall.
A very large number considered McDavid to be better.
Did you know Lidstrom went in the third round?? Must have been overrated or a cancer !
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