RW Matvei Michkov (2023, 7th, PHI) Part 4

[Breakfast of Champs]

This is a dishonest comparison. No one is asserting that about a bust.

We are discussing the best Russian prospect since Ovechkin.

I'm just pointing out how silly it is to call him the best in the world at anything at this point

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I'm just pointing out how silly it is to call him the best in the world at anything at this point

What about Bedard? If you were to say Bedard has the best release hypothetically, is it silly?

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

What about Bedard? If you were to say Bedard has the best release hypothetically, is it silly?

I believe it is yea because Matthews still exists, but at least bedard is showing how good he is in the NHL already.

Mkchkov is and will be great, but bedard he is not

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I believe it is yea because Matthews still exists, but at least bedard is showing how good he is in the NHL already.

Mkchkov is and will be great, but bedard he is not

You're argument makes no sense. So you claim we can't say so for Bedard, but "at least he's playing in the NHL" and is apparently better than Michkov (no one has any idea). You could've just said no. You don't have to defend Bedard's honor. The reason I asked is not to debate Bedard vs. Michkov, it's to show that you take offense to what I said and then are wishy-washy about Bedard qualifying for a similar debate because Bedard is one of the best draft prospects in a long time, as if Michkov isn't.

If someone wants to say Bedard has the best release in the NHL, I don't have a problem with that. I don't agree, but he has 9 goals in 13 goals. That's enough. He's pretty close to the best, even if I might have one or two ahead. There is no initiation process where he has to prove himself over and over again. You didn't try to explain who is the best, if it's not Michkov. If not him, then who?

And there should be no initiation process for Michkov. Who cares what league he's playing in? The NHL isn't sacred. Do you think Kaprizov, Shestyorkin, and Sorokin weren't some of the best players in the world before reaching the NHL? Not everything needs to be so NHL centric. There are going to be some who are stars before they reach the NHL, and they shouldn't have to wait until they reach the NHL to be recognized as such.

 

[Redpath]

3rd game he has missed this season with illness

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

lmao, poor Habs fans

At least we are used to it . we've seen one ppg players in like 25 years bahahaha

 

[ViD]

3rd game he has missed this season with illness

Injury prone confirmed

 

[Czechboy]

I check in occasionally on here... See he's still near a .ppg which is outrageously good. Agree he'd be in the Calder race this year.

What the hell happened to Jaskin?lol Happy for Safin.. thought he'd bust out tbh.

Spooner 3rd in league scoring with 38 points in 28 games. Hard league to gauge.

 

[JRichard]

View attachment 769804

I check in occasionally on here... See he's still near a .ppg which is outrageously good. Agree he'd be in the Calder race this year.

What the hell happened to Jaskin?lol Happy for Safin.. thought he'd bust out tbh.

Spooner 3rd in league scoring with 38 points in 28 games. Hard league to gauge.

AHL leaders: Gaudette, Denisenko, Nathan Walker
SHL: Rattie, Veronneau
Swiss: Daniel Carr
SM Liiga: Reid Gardiner

better look at results from NHL players coming from these leagues.

 

[Guadana]

Misyul is immediately dynamic two way defenseman in AHL, Mukhamasullin is 0.7+ ppg defenseman, one was borderline third pair defenseman in KHL, other one was second pair PP qb with 20+ points in ~60 games. AHL isn't even close to KHL, it isn't even close to SHL

 

[Fantomas]

And there should be no initiation process for Michkov. Who cares what league he's playing in? The NHL isn't sacred. Do you think Kaprizov, Shestyorkin, and Sorokin weren't some of the best players in the world before reaching the NHL? Not everything needs to be so NHL centric.

This is pretty much the flaw in these people's argument. They claim that unless a guy arrives in the NHL you're supposed to be agnostic about his abilities.

It's like he doesn't exist until he's in the NHL. Like a tree that falls in a forest can't make a sound unless these people are there to hear it.

But yeah, of freaking course Kaprizov, Shestyorkin, Sorokin were all elite in the KHL. Some people were just slow on the uptake but many already knew about them.

Mkchkov is and will be great, but bedard he is not

I love Bedard, but Michkov's offensive IQ is beyond Bedard's

 

[coooldude]

This is pretty much the flaw in these people's argument. They claim that unless a guy arrives in the NHL you're supposed to be agnostic about his abilities.

It's like he doesn't exist until he's in the NHL. Like a tree that falls in a forest can't make a sound unless these people are there to hear it.

I'm sorry, this guy is over here claiming that Michkov is the best blue paint scorer in the world after two half seasons, and you're saying anyone who disagrees has a flawed argument because they want to consider the existence of the NHL?

You guys are out to lunch. Dude is obviously going to be great, but the circle jerk is truly impressive.

 

[Fantomas]

I'm sorry, this guy is over here claiming that Michkov is the best blue paint scorer in the world after two half seasons, and you're saying anyone who disagrees has a flawed argument because they want to consider the existence of the NHL?

You guys are out to lunch. Dude is obviously going to be great, but the circle jerk is truly impressive.

The problem isn't that you're disagreeing with him. The problem is that you're disagreeing with him for stupid reasons.

 

[coooldude]

The problem isn't that you're disagreeing with him. The problem is that you're disagreeing with him for stupid reasons.

I can play stupid games too.

The problem is that you're agreeing with him for stupid reasons.

See? Stupid and unhelpful.

Want to try to make a logical argument with data why Michkov is the best blue paint scorer in the world? I'm all ears. The other guy made no good arguments. All you've done is trolled.

 

[Fantomas]

Want to try to make a logical argument with data why Michkov is the best blue paint scorer in the world? I'm all ears. The other guy made no good arguments. All you've done is trolled.

I didn't make the argument, Pavel did. My post, if you read it carefully, was about your and another poster's reaction to what he said. I laid out my points quite succinctly.

 

[FlyguyOX]

He's the absolute worst current coach in the league for flashy young stars. He has a better chance at ruining him then "rounding out his game."



Exactly this. This is already his 2nd year in Philly and Michkov is still 3 years away. No way he is the coach to start the 26-27 season. Unfortunately the Flyers are so far up his ass, he might be President by then. But at least he won't be able to hands on coach Michkov.

Torts is force feeding Foerster top line minutes and top Pp time and the dude has done nothing with it. I really don’t get where you guys get these narratives from

Have you not been paying attention to his entire coaching career? He's been clashing with his star players the entire time, at every single stop. How about the two seasons where he cratered the Sedin twins production while they were still in their prime by reducing them to shot-blocking grinders. He's a joke.

Yeah really ruined werenski eh

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I can play stupid games too.

The problem is that you're agreeing with him for stupid reasons.

See? Stupid and unhelpful.

Want to try to make a logical argument with data why Michkov is the best blue paint scorer in the world? I'm all ears. The other guy made no good arguments. All you've done is trolled.

How about you make an argument that he isn't that isn't "he's not playing in the NHL?"

 

[coooldude]

I didn't make the argument, Pavel did. My post, if you read it carefully, was about your and another poster's reaction to what he said. I laid out my points quite succinctly.

The entirety of his original argument for why Michkov is already the best blue paint scorer... IN THE WORLD... is... "watch his goals. Almost never perimeter shots. He's the best blue paint goal scorer in the world already."

That's the whole argument. Which isn't actually an argument, it's a completely unsubstantiated claim. I'm the best poster on HFBoards and you're the worst. My evidence is my observations. Prove me wrong. (see how stupid that is?)

Your "succinct points" were:
- "This is pretty much the flaw in these people's argument. They claim that unless a guy arrives in the NHL you're supposed to be agnostic about his abilities." Who said anyone was agnostic about Michkov's abilities? This is called a strawman argument. I'm sure you're smart enough to know what that is, and why this point is stupid, although it is succinct.

- "It's like he doesn't exist until he's in the NHL. Like a tree that falls in a forest can't make a sound unless these people are there to hear it." Another strawman. Succinct though! Where in here is a good argument for why Michkov is the best blue paint goal scorer in the world? Nobody (not even Garl!) is saying he doesn't exist or that he's not an extremely talented prospect and on his way to a great career.

- "But yeah, of freaking course Kaprizov, Shestyorkin, Sorokin were all elite in the KHL. Some people were just slow on the uptake but many already knew about them." Great! Does any of this have to do with whether Michkov is already the best blue paint goal scorer in the world?

You guys can circle jerk all you want on this thread, I wouldn't even have said anything if Pavel had stopped at... "he is on his way to becoming the best blue paint goal scorer in the world." Sure! why the hell not. But that's not what was said, and your responses are laughably irrelevant and unhelpful.

But I'm sure your response will be, "nuh uh." This thread really is a tire fire.

 

[coooldude]

How about you make an argument that he isn't that isn't "he's not playing in the NHL?"

You can't make a wild claim, offer no evidence other than your own opinion, and then force other people to bend over backwards to prove you wrong. Here's the example I gave to your buddy which should hopefully clear up why.

I'm the best poster on HFBoards and you're the worst. My evidence is my observations. Prove me wrong. (see how stupid that is?)

If I made a wild, stupid claim, like... the KHL is the worst professional league in the world. And then you say "that's stupid, it's the second best league in the world" and I say, "prove it, I think it's the worst." Wouldn't you be really annoyed? That's exactly what you're doing.

There is absolutely, positively no possible way you could credibly make an argument that Michkov is already the best blue paint scorer in the world because he's scoring at a PPG this season over 25 games. In any league. He hasn't even finished a full season. I wouldn't agree with saying any player, of any position, in any league, for any particular skill, is "already the best X in the world" after 25 games of a rookie season. Not Bedard, not McDavid, not Crosby. Let alone something as nebulous as "blue paint scorer." How do you even measure that? Show me the shot charts, show me that Michkov is scoring more in the blue paint area than anyone else, show me that he's doing it at a higher difficulty / shooting%, show me anything at all that isn't pure opinion, and I would still say, "that's awesome, let's see if he can keep it up beyond this small sample size of 25 games. He's great at it so far, but let's see more evidence before we call him the best in the world."

I'm going to leave the thread now, assuming that you originally meant to say, "Michkov is on his way to becoming the best blue paint scorer in the world," shrug my shoulders with a "maybe, we'll see," and leave you to the circlejerk.

 

[Garl]

View attachment 769804

I check in occasionally on here... See he's still near a .ppg which is outrageously good. Agree he'd be in the Calder race this year.

What the hell happened to Jaskin?lol Happy for Safin.. thought he'd bust out tbh.

Spooner 3rd in league scoring with 38 points in 28 games. Hard league to gauge.

Ryan Spooner is a top player by KHL standards, plain and simple

Safin is playing for Lada, which on paper is one of if not the worst teams in KHL. But they are doing surprisingly good this season, which kinda proves my point that KHL is much worse than it used to be after loss of many imports.

Safin is their go to guy, which is interesting for someone, who was nothing special in Czech extra Liga

About Jaskin, new team, different system, as you can see, he is the Cy Denneny of KHL now. Still a star in KHL for sure

 

[Garl]

This is pretty much the flaw in these people's argument. They claim that unless a guy arrives in the NHL you're supposed to be agnostic about his abilities.

It's like he doesn't exist until he's in the NHL. Like a tree that falls in a forest can't make a sound unless these people are there to hear it.

But yeah, of freaking course Kaprizov, Shestyorkin, Sorokin were all elite in the KHL. Some people were just slow on the uptake but many already knew about them.



I love Bedard, but Michkov's offensive IQ is beyond Bedard's

Kaprizov, Shestyorkin, Sorokin argument is a manipulation, since "Pavel" maid a different claim. He did not say "Michkov is elite, and can be a top 6 NHLer already" he said "he is the best in the World at scoring from certain areas"

And yes, you can not make claims like that in modern hockey world. Because NHL is absolutely dominant, it is way better than KHL, so extraordinary abilities of certain players can only be proven on a certain level. Unless it's something very technical like trick penalty shots like Rob Schremp

 

[Fantomas]

Your "succinct points" were:
- "This is pretty much the flaw in these people's argument. They claim that unless a guy arrives in the NHL you're supposed to be agnostic about his abilities." Who said anyone was agnostic about Michkov's abilities?

You did.

We can't even start to have the debate about whether Michkov is the best blue paint scorer in the world, until Michkov plays at least a season in the best league in the world.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Ryan Spooner is a top player by KHL standards, plain and simple

Safin is playing for Lada, which on paper is one of if not the worst teams in KHL. But they are doing surprisingly good this season, which kinda proves my point that KHL is much worse than it used to be after loss of many imports.

Safin is their go to guy, which is interesting for someone, who was nothing special in Czech extra Liga

About Jaskin, new team, different system, as you can see, he is the Cy Denneny of KHL now. Still a star in KHL for sure

Lol, where did you study this kind of logic, I wonder...

 

[Garl]

You're argument makes no sense. So you claim we can't say so for Bedard, but "at least he's playing in the NHL" and is apparently better than Michkov (no one has any idea). You could've just said no. You don't have to defend Bedard's honor. The reason I asked is not to debate Bedard vs. Michkov, it's to show that you take offense to what I said and then are wishy-washy about Bedard qualifying for a similar debate because Bedard is one of the best draft prospects in a long time, as if Michkov isn't.

If someone wants to say Bedard has the best release in the NHL, I don't have a problem with that. I don't agree, but he has 9 goals in 13 goals. That's enough. He's pretty close to the best, even if I might have one or two ahead. There is no initiation process where he has to prove himself over and over again. You didn't try to explain who is the best, if it's not Michkov. If not him, then who?

And there should be no initiation process for Michkov. Who cares what league he's playing in? The NHL isn't sacred. Do you think Kaprizov, Shestyorkin, and Sorokin weren't some of the best players in the world before reaching the NHL? Not everything needs to be so NHL centric. There are going to be some who are stars before they reach the NHL, and they shouldn't have to wait until they reach the NHL to be recognized as such.

You forgot Rykov

Lol, where did you study this kind of logic, I wonder...

VHL level team enters KHL and is 2nd(or 3rd) in the East. What is it that you don't get?

 

[Garl]

Misyul is immediately dynamic two way defenseman in AHL, Mukhamasullin is 0.7+ ppg defenseman, one was borderline third pair defenseman in KHL, other one was second pair PP qb with 20+ points in ~60 games. AHL isn't even close to KHL, it isn't even close to SHL

That doesn't mean much. Tkachyov flopped in AHL, Ivan Morozov aswell, so what now?
AHL is a development league, it is natural that they will give more opportunities to young prospects. And besides, young players progress you know