RW Matvei Michkov (2023, 7th, PHI) Part 4

[FlyguyOX]

Interested to see how this move impacts Michkov.

They're gonna cook

 

[Fantomas]

So in that vein, most top 10 picks have the potential to be better than Kucherov, because they were better as prospects?

Development isn't linear.

"Development isn't linear" is a banality. It's understood, and yet you present it as some kind of trenchant insight.

I'll put it to you this way: if I said the same things here about Bedard you probably would not be interjecting. Nothing would be said about development not being linear.

I think folks here are having a hard time giving Michkov his due as a prospect. Perhaps it's due to his nationality.

 

[LeProspector]

That is a crazy high bar. Are we forgetting just how good Kucherov is/has been?

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

"Development isn't linear" is a banality. It's understood, and yet you present it as some kind of trenchant insight.

Because you keep trying to make the comparison between them as prospects when it has no relevance to the type of player Kucherov became. Shane Wright was a better prospect than Kucherov, it doesn't mean he had the potential to exceed Kucherov's level in the NHL.

I'll put it to you this way: if I said the same things here about Bedard you probably would not be interjecting. Nothing would be said about development not being linear.

Have you read my posts on Bedard? I absolutely would interject if you said the same thing about Bedard. I've already had issue with people projecting Bedard to be better than Matthews.

I think folks here are having a hard time giving Michkov his due as a prospect. Perhaps it's due to his nationality.

I've given Michkov plenty of praise, that doesn't mean his potential is much higher than Kucherov.

 

[Postulates]

Clearly the KHL is just a bad retirement league nowadays

I look at the clips of how Siliyav scores for examples and there is no defensive effort shown from the defenders

The goalies look asleep

I think the KHL is more in terms of the quality of NA3HL or ACHA D3

If Michkov wants to be seen as a future star he should be putting up 2 ppg minimum in this league.

 

[Garl]

Lol, have you ever checked facts before saying something?

All of this guys are late bloomers, none of them was a 1st round proapect at 18 unless you consult a time traveller

 

[Garl]

Also, LOL at Khusnutdinov for Rendulic trade. Only possible in KHL
For Michkov it might be a problem, since Sochi first line is now demolished, so Michkov is Sochi's best player now and he will have to play against better competition

 

[Fantomas]

Because you keep trying to make the comparison between them as prospects when it has no relevance to the type of player Kucherov became. Shane Wright was a better prospect than Kucherov, it doesn't mean he had the potential to exceed Kucherov's level in the NHL.

I'm not actually making a comparison between Michkov and Kucherov as prospects. I'm just straight up saying that Michkov has the potential to be an Ovechkin/Malkin-level player. Which Kuch is not.

Kucherov was also very underrated as a prospect because he was mis-scouted by NHL teams. I've also never much liked Shane Wright as a prospect. NHL teams being wrong on Kucherov and Shane Wright is not germane.

Have you read my posts on Bedard? I absolutely would interject if you said the same thing about Bedard. I've already had issue with people projecting Bedard to be better than Matthews.

So if I said right now that Bedard projects to be better than Kucherov, you'd interject and say that development isn't linear? I'd laugh, but go for it.

 

[Kshahdoo]

All of this guys are late bloomers, none of them was a 1st round proapect at 18 unless you consult a time traveller

So you haven't. As I thought...

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I'm not actually making a comparison between Michkov and Kucherov as prospects

You actually did compare them as prospects multiple times

Exactly. Completely different level as a prospect. If he turns into Kucherov I'll be a little disappointed.

I like Kucherov, he's a star. He's just not on the same level as Ovechkin, Malkin and Michkov far ahead of him currently at 18.

You even defended the comparison when I said it had no merit:

Holds a lot of merit. We can only talk of Michkov as a prospect and therefore of his potential.

Seems like you're back tracking.

. I'm just straight up saying that Michkov has the potential to be an Ovechkin/Malkin-level player. Which Kuch is not.

Kucherov's peak and prime is every bit as impressive as Ovechkin's. It just took him a lot longer to reach it.

So if I said right now that Bedard projects to be better than Kucherov, you'd interject and say that development isn't linear? I'd laugh, but go for it.

I have Bedard as a Kucherov level talent, it's actually the exact comparison I've made several times. Could he be better than Kucherov? Possibly. But I very much doubt he'll be much better than Kucherov.

 

[Garl]

So you haven't. As I thought...

Your argument is just bad, draft is a meritocratic system and existence of late bloomers doesnt change it. Can someone be underscouted? Sure. But not in Top 10

 

[WarriorofTime]

I think the KHL is more in terms of the quality of NA3HL or ACHA D3

Thanks for your insight

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I think career wise Kuch is now in the same tier +/- as Malkin. I see it like this:

Ovechkin - ATG top 6-15, peak multiple MVPs/best player in the world years, prime multiple years around top 5-10 player in the world.

Malkin, Kucherov - ATG top 30-50, peak MVP/Hart season at least once, prime multiple years around top 5-10 player in the world.

Fedorov - ATG top 100, peak MVP/Hart season at least once, prime few years top 10-20 forward.

Bure, Datsyuk - ATG top 100, peak top 3/5 multiple years but where never considered best player in the world (even without Gretzky/Mario), prime multiple years top 10-20 forward.

Mogilny, Yashin, Kovalev, Kovalchuk, Panarin - superstar/star, peak around top 5 player in the world at least once, multiple years top 10-20 forward in the world.

Michkov is in my eyes a candidate for group 2/3 - in his peak compete for the best player in the world at least once with multiple years a top 5/10 player. But if Bedard or someone else turns out the be the next Gretzky, Michkov should at very least have a career like Datsyuk/Bure, without MVP title but several years around that top 5 player tier.

Btw, found this highlight video of Kuch with all his U18 WJC goals (for those who want to compare):



He looked like a light version of Michkov. Pretty similar style: high IQ game with great positioning, passing and feeling for the game. Scored most of his goals also from the same area around the slot. Not the fastest skater too. Kuch was almost 18 years back then.

Great video nice find man thanks

 

[Dr Jablonski PhD]

Do we suspect Khusnutdinov will center Michkov?

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

That is a crazy high bar. Are we forgetting just how good Kucherov is/has been?

I am the kids biggest fan but yeah some posters are super over the top . He could be twice the player Kuch was at 16-19 it doesn't mean he will be better at the NHL level automatically like some people are claiming

 

[Zine]

All of this guys are late bloomers, none of them was a 1st round proapect at 18 unless you consult a time traveller

Kucherov wasn't a late bloomer per se.

-His draft year he set the all-time record for points at U18s.
-Led his age group in points in MHL, as he did the previous year.
-Played the most KHL games of anybody in his age group

Yet who was taken ahead of him? CHLers Namestnikov and Khokhlachev
Assessing Russian talent based on NHL draft criteria/position is beyond stupid. The NHL often has no clue.
Talent wise Kucherov was easily 1st round material at the time of his draft.

 

[Fantomas]

You actually did compare them as prospects multiple times

You even defended the comparison when I said it had no merit:

Seems like you're back tracking.

You're grasping at straws here. The points are clear, you disagree with them. Maybe you should move on rather than accusing me of "back tracking" or some such nonsense. If you're bored and itching for a time-wasting argument, look elsewhere.

Kucherov's peak and prime is every bit as impressive as Ovechkin's. It just took him a lot longer to reach it.

Disagree. In fact, this stance calls your objectivity into question.

I have Bedard as a Kucherov level talent, it's actually the exact comparison I've made several times. Could he be better than Kucherov? Possibly. But I very much doubt he'll be much better than Kucherov.

Good to know. I don't share this view.

 

[Fantomas]

Assessing Russian talent based on NHL draft criteria/position is beyond stupid. The NHL often has no clue.
Talent wise Kucherov was easily 1st round material at the time of his draft.

Kucherov destroyed the U18s in his draft year much like Will Smith did this year, and the competition was fiercer.

NHL scouts are bad at evaluating Russians, especially those who play in Russia.

 

[Lavar Ball]

Being a better prospect than Kuch with the potential to be a better player is one thing, and I would agree. But saying this is just bonkers

If he turns into Kucherov I'll be a little disappointed.

 

[Fantomas]

Being a better prospect than Kuch with the potential to be a better player is one thing, and I would agree. But saying this is just bonkers

As I've said before, there will be Kucherovs. But Michkov is the next great hope.

 

[Rebels57]

Exactly. Completely different level as a prospect. If he turns into Kucherov I'll be a little disappointed.

Are you high?

 

[Garl]

Kucherov wasn't a late bloomer per se.

-His draft year he set the all-time record for points at U18s.
-Led his age group in points in MHL, as he did the previous year.
-Played the most KHL games of anybody in his age group

Yet who was taken ahead of him? CHLers Namestnikov and Khokhlachev
Assessing Russian talent based on NHL draft criteria/position is beyond stupid. The NHL often has no clue.
Talent wise Kucherov was easily 1st round material at the time of his draft.

I agree. And there were other obvious mistakes, like Tarasenko at #17 or Kuznetsov at #25.
He was not a TOP 10 level prospect at that time though

 

[Kshahdoo]

Your argument is just bad, draft is a meritocratic system and existence of late bloomers doesnt change it. Can someone be underscouted? Sure. But not in Top 10

What argument, I don't have any arguments and I don't need them, because you don't have any...

Being a better prospect than Kuch with the potential to be a better player is one thing, and I would agree. But saying this is just bonkers

Why? Yeah, Kucherov is great, but he isn't the greatest Soviet/Russian player ever. Not even top5. Maybe top10, and even this is debatable.

 

[montreal]

Only 1 Russian player in NHL history has had a higher ppg then Kucherov and it's Malkin by .01 and Kaprizov/Bure are .02 behind him.

Elite Prospects - NHL Stats All-time totals

All-time/historical overall totals stats and leaders for NHL, including top goal scorers, most games played, PPG leaders and more.

www.eliteprospects.com

To expect Michkov to better is flat out insane. Of course it could happen but why would you even put such lofty comps on him is nuts.

 

[Fantomas]

Only 1 Russian player in NHL history has had a higher ppg then Kucherov and it's Malkin by .01 and Kaprizov/Bure are .02 behind him.

Why does it matter that he's Russian? By being Russian, is Michkov somehow in a special bubble from which he can't get out?

Do we place the same constraints on golden boy Bedard? Or does he come with some special Tim Hortons glazed magic?