RW Matvei Michkov (2023, 7th, PHI) Part 4

[Sasha Orlov]

I don't follow the KHL at all, but aren't the coaches trying to win instead of showcasing prospects for the entertainment of HFB posters?

Yeah for sure lol but the lack of trust in young players runs deep in the KHL, that’s what I’m getting at

 

[josra33]

Why would Russian teams put the resources into improving a player who they think is going to be gone in 2-3 years? If the other players help them win now over Michkov, then they will go other routes.

 

[Goldenhands]

Grant McCagg (former Habs 'scout') has done nothing but trash Michkov online since the Habs passed on him. Very odd behavior.

Grant is a Habs fan himself and most Habs fans wanted Michkov, so he tried to explain why Michkov would drop on draft day and why it was unlikely the Habs pick him at 5th OV. While the geopolitical situation was scary, Michkov didnt only drop for non hockey related factors, something Grant, Basu and some others tried to explain to the fans, the lack of control over his develpment, his off the puck work and defensive game were also question marks and Grant just keeps pointing out why it was so risky to pick him.

Personally Ive nothing against McCagg, I even subscribed to his content last year and was surpringly satisfied with his Habs coverage + prospects content. I know some people wake up in the morning to hate on the guy, but he has his good and bad takes like everyone.

 

[ponder]

I think it’s no coincidence that Tolvanen has the highest scoring U19 KHL season of all time (in terms of both points and goals). He’s not even remotely close to the most talented U19 KHL player ever, but he was a Finnish kid on a Finnish team, that treated him with a more Liiga style “let’s see what the kid can do” approach, than a classic KHL “grind it out for years before you get a real chance” approach.

A very large number of KHL teams/coaches simply don’t trust young players, and will never give them a serious shot. There’s also countless examples of young players moving from the KHL to the NHL, and instantly getting a much bigger role and seeing way more success, despite the NHL being a much better league, that like the KHL isn’t a development league. It’s a cultural thing with a tonne of KHL coaches, very “old school” mentality, and it’s not changing anytime soon.

It’s possible Michkov sees consistent top 6 minutes this year, but I’m not holding my breath. He’d probably get more minutes (and more prime offensive opportunities) playing for the Flyers than SKA this year, if he hadn’t signed that contract. Not because SKA are more talented/deep than the Flyers (again not even close), but simply due to cultural differences between the leagues/teams.

 

[ItWasJustified]

Grant McCagg (former Habs 'scout') has done nothing but trash Michkov online since the Habs passed on him. Very odd behavior.

Maybe he's thinking that if he trashes the player Habs passed, they might hire him again.

 

[Zine]

Why would Russian teams put the resources into improving a player who they think is going to be gone in 2-3 years? If the other players help them win now over Michkov, then they will go other routes.

Depends on the team.

Clubs with lesser budgets would love it if their young players developed into regulars…. even if only for 2-3 years.

 

[Garl]

I think it’s no coincidence that Tolvanen has the highest scoring U19 KHL season of all time (in terms of both points and goals). He’s not even remotely close to the most talented U19 KHL player ever, but he was a Finnish kid on a Finnish team, that treated him with a more Liiga style “let’s see what the kid can do” approach, than a classic KHL “grind it out for years before you get a real chance” approach.

A very large number of KHL teams/coaches simply don’t trust young players, and will never give them a serious shot. There’s also countless examples of young players moving from the KHL to the NHL, and instantly getting a much bigger role and seeing way more success, despite the NHL being a much better league, that like the KHL isn’t a development league. It’s a cultural thing with a tonne of KHL coaches, very “old school” mentality, and it’s not changing anytime soon.

It’s possible Michkov sees consistent top 6 minutes this year, but I’m not holding my breath. He’d probably get more minutes (and more prime offensive opportunities) playing for the Flyers than SKA this year, if he hadn’t signed that contract. Not because SKA are more talented/deep than the Flyers (again not even close), but simply due to cultural differences between the leagues/teams.

Tolvanen is not even remotely close to the most talented player in KHL history. Who is though?

 

[Zine]

I think it’s no coincidence that Tolvanen has the highest scoring U19 KHL season of all time (in terms of both points and goals). He’s not even remotely close to the most talented U19 KHL player ever, but he was a Finnish kid on a Finnish team, that treated him with a more Liiga style “let’s see what the kid can do” approach, than a classic KHL “grind it out for years before you get a real chance” approach.

A very large number of KHL teams/coaches simply don’t trust young players, and will never give them a serious shot. There’s also countless examples of young players moving from the KHL to the NHL, and instantly getting a much bigger role and seeing way more success, despite the NHL being a much better league, that like the KHL isn’t a development league. It’s a cultural thing with a tonne of KHL coaches, very “old school” mentality, and it’s not changing anytime soon.

It’s possible Michkov sees consistent top 6 minutes this year, but I’m not holding my breath. He’d probably get more minutes (and more prime offensive opportunities) playing for the Flyers than SKA this year, if he hadn’t signed that contract. Not because SKA are more talented/deep than the Flyers (again not even close), but simply due to cultural differences between the leagues/teams.

The NHL isnt a good example for the ‘cultural’ argument.
Granted its a better league, but still only 13 players aged u20 played at least a game in the NHL last year. In the KHL it was 80 players.

 

[ponder]

Tolvanen is not even remotely close to the most talented player in KHL history. Who is though?

In terms of guys who played in the KHL as teenagers, and specifically just the KHL (not the RSL), I’d be looking at Kaprizov, Kucherov, Kuznetsov, Panarin, Tarasenko, etc.

 

[Garl]

In terms of guys who played in the KHL as teenagers, and specifically just the KHL (not the RSL), I’d be looking at Kaprizov, Kucherov, Kuznetsov, Panarin, Tarasenko, etc.

All of this guys except Kucherov were getting the ice time. Panarin and Kaprizov played for horrible teams, Tarasenko was coached by his father, Kuznetsov was his teams 1st line center and go to guy at 19. Not to mention that both Kaprizov and esp Panarin are late bloomers and were worse players than Tolvanen at 18

 

[Zine]

In terms of guys who played in the KHL as teenagers, and specifically just the KHL (not the RSL), I’d be looking at Kaprizov, Kucherov, Kuznetsov, Panarin, Tarasenko, etc.

All those guys received quality playing time, sans Kucherov.

Russia doesnt have an all-encompassing ‘anti-young player’ cultural problem.

The problem is teams like SKA hoard all the talent (including many top young talents). This inadvertently makes it difficult for youngsters to get into games, and their TOI is predicated on the decisions/opinions of a small handful of coaches like Rotenberg.

 

[Hanji]

no michkov today

All things being equal, also not dressing are regulars like Nikolayev, Falkovsky, Galimov, Gritsyuk, Leipsic, Zykov and Kadeykin.

 

[Guadana]

I don't follow the KHL at all, but aren't the coaches trying to win instead of showcasing prospects for the entertainment of HFB posters?

No-no-no. Beef only. They dont like young players because they are old.

 

[Redpath]

 

[Nikolajs Sillers]

Second line center is Sabres legend Glotov. Good guy.

 

[Fatass]

All things being equal, also not dressing are regulars like Nikolayev, Falkovsky, Galimov, Gritsyuk, Leipsic, Zykov and Kadeykin.

Yup. Top guys reading while the bubble boys fight it out for spots. SKA wants to win. Playing Michkov play centre will help them win. If NHL clubs knew Michkov was going to transition to centre he definitely goes top five at the draft. Too much elite talent there to pass on, especially just to draft only okay D men.

 

[wankstifier]

Why would Russian teams put the resources into improving a player who they think is going to be gone in 2-3 years? If the other players help them win now over Michkov, then they will go other routes.

Maybe they want to win in the short term by using their best players. Michkov is inarguably one of the top players

 

[josra33]

Maybe they want to win in the short term by using their best players. Michkov is inarguably one of the top players

If hes having inopportune turnovers, maybe they feel differently....

 

[tnfrs]

its crazy that even with reduced time these last few games he still had more dangerous scoring chances than any other player on the ice. i dont think he had any points in the last two games, maybe an assist i cant remember but he still finished the pre season as one of the top scorers on the team, demidov was right up there with him too so its going to be interesting to see SKA's lineup when the season opens next week. I just hope Michkov gets time in the top of the lineup even if it means putting him back on wing. he still needs to work on his defensive zone reads tho, hes has a tendency to cheat up the ice before his teammate wins a battle and when they dont win, hes caught. I say let him cook, he's gonna learn from making mistakes but the risk/reward is worth it if he scores enough, and hes already shown hes capable of that. When he was given 2nd line minutes the first 2 games of the Sochi open he had 4 points I think, and ever since then his minutes have gone down, let the kid play. Defense he can learn with experience, and by drilling, and watching tape but nobody else on the team can do what he can do offensively.

 

[Xirik]

Wish I knew what Gritsyuk and Bardakov's name was in Russian language. This thread seems like the fastest way to keep up to date on when they are playing along with Mitchkov.

 

[tnfrs]

Wish I knew what Gritsyuk and Bardakov's name was in Russian language. This thread seems like the fastest way to keep up to date on when they are playing along with Mitchkov.

I only know to watch for 39 but hes usually easy to spot, and demidov stands out because of his full cage

 

[LetsGoFlyers12]

its crazy that even with reduced time these last few games he still had more dangerous scoring chances than any other player on the ice. i dont think he had any points in the last two games, maybe an assist i cant remember but he still finished the pre season as one of the top scorers on the team, demidov was right up there with him too so its going to be interesting to see SKA's lineup when the season opens next week. I just hope Michkov gets time in the top of the lineup even if it means putting him back on wing. he still needs to work on his defensive zone reads tho, hes has a tendency to cheat up the ice before his teammate wins a battle and when they dont win, hes caught. I say let him cook, he's gonna learn from making mistakes but the risk/reward is worth it if he scores enough, and hes already shown hes capable of that. When he was given 2nd line minutes the first 2 games of the Sochi open he had 4 points I think, and ever since then his minutes have gone down, let the kid play. Defense he can learn with experience, and by drilling, and watching tape but nobody else on the team can do what he can do offensively.

This is all spot on. He averages about 11 mins a game over 7 games and had 6 points. Only on the ice for 2 even strength goals against too.

He looked the part of a top 6 forward for sure. I highly doubt he'll start there. I'm very interested to see the opening night roster and lineup

 

[Zine]

Wish I knew what Gritsyuk and Bardakov's name was in Russian language. This thread seems like the fastest way to keep up to date on when they are playing along with Mitchkov.

Gritsyuk was out of the lineup last game. So was Bardakov, but Bardakov is recovering from injury.. took a hit to the head 2 games ago.

 

[wankstifier]

If hes having inopportune turnovers, maybe they feel differently....

Oh, no... Not turnovers!

 

[Petes2424]

With everything going on the last few weeks, it’s safe to say the Flyers are probably a little concerned with the decision SKA will make over the next week, to get under the cap.

We already know they’re loaning Buchelnikov to Sochi unless something crazy happens. That should make Detroit pretty happy. He’ll get the ice time and important minutes they were hoping for.

That’s all the Flyers want for Michkov too. They don’t care where it’s at. Just that he’s in a spot to play important minutes in the KHL.

With the Gakchenyuk signing and Michkov’s play over the last couple of weeks, you almost have to wonder if he’s also been told he’s going out on loan again, and he’s not happy about it.

It would at least explain some things, because there’s no sugar-coating that play. There’s just not. That was a player who didn’t seem to wanna be out there. That’s the type of lazy effort that doesn’t get you loaned out, but sent down, or buried on the roster. He didn’t even turn back, or make any effort to recover. He’s going to be lucky if he’s only scratched for the one game.

Unfortunately, his teammates all seen it too, and I’m sure they’ve already talked to him about it. You just hope if SKA keeps him, that the coach doesn’t hold it against him too long. That he’s said his peace and the kid learns his lesson. It will get real bad if his effort is questioned again though.

After the last couple of weeks, maybe it is better if he’s loaned out again.