RW Matvei Michkov (2023, 7th, PHI) Part 4

[hotcabbagesoup]

Well, I wouldn't say his goal-scoring is based off his shot. Michkov probably scores more goals around the net for a smaller player than any player we've seen so far. His net sense is the best I've ever seen. Most of his goals are because of his mind. They are because he outmaneuvered defenseman and the goalie.

And sure, he can shoot it pretty well too. His shot is more about deception than power. The deception is among the best you'll see. The power is very good.

Homie please,
Beating goalies with his mind,
That's as believable as moving his moms out the projects with his rhymes

From the MMdoom album Matvillainy

 

[NatusVincere]

Michkov played 11 games for NT this season, scored 3 pts, best season evar confirmed

First, he scored 4 points… check your facts first, stat watcher… Second, about the series with Belarus, Michkov/Russia destroyed Belarus in the first two games 10:2, Michkov was 1+1 and everything was said and done. Nobody wanted to play against Belarus again and the players of both teams admitted that they had massive motivation problems… besides that, as stat watchers like Garl the great can’t know, Michkov didnt play much in the last games … in some he was the 13th forward and played only few seconds/minutes, every time when Rotenbergs Russia looked like shit and they needed some momentum.

 

[HeadLiceHatty]

If he had a better season he would have been 2nd overall regardless of his contract status. All of this additional factors became relevant because he had a pedestrian year by the standarts that he set himself before.

You’re kidding yourself, GMs try to protect their jobs too. You know that y’all took a safer pick, and you know damn well you could get burned for it. Relax, Carlssonis an awesome prospect and the right pick before Fantilli, I think he’s a top 3 pick in most every draft but Michkov has tools that are beyond him, if he puts it together he’ll be the better player. Just what I think, it’s ok to have diff opinions. Agree to disagree lol.

 

[Garl]

You’re kidding yourself, GMs try to protect their jobs too. You know that y’all took a safer pick, and you know damn well you could get burned for it. Relax, Carlssonis an awesome prospect and the right pick before Fantilli, I think he’s a top 3 pick in most every draft but Michkov has tools that are beyond him, if he puts it together he’ll be the better player. Just what I think, it’s ok to have diff opinions. Agree to disagree lol.

My argument during the 22-23 was that Michkov lost his 1-2 draft place due to pedestrian season. Other than that his achievments and stats were of a first overall in majority of drafts.
So, I was arguing that due to how 22-23 went it is perfectly reasonable for GMs to consider selecting Carlsson and Fantilli ahead of him.

Again if Michkov scored 30 in 40 games for SKA and 10 in 11 for National Team, he would have been a 2nd overall no doubt. But his season was not that good and thats why people suddenly started to get worried about his height and attitude. As rightfully pointed by many people, nobody is having issues with Bedard's height. You know why? He had a dominating season, so nobody cares, just like nobody cared about Gretzky being small and soft.

It is absolutely possible that next season, I will come here and say that looks like Michkov is in fact dominating KHL and looks like a generational talent. We shall see, but this seasob he was just not that good.

 

[Zine]

My argument during the 22-23 was that Michkov lost his 1-2 draft place due to pedestrian season. Other than that his achievments and stats were of a first overall in majority of drafts.
So, I was arguing that due to how 22-23 went it is perfectly reasonable for GMs to consider selecting Carlsson and Fantilli ahead of him.

Again if Michkov scored 30 in 40 games for SKA and 10 in 11 for National Team, he would have been a 2nd overall no doubt. But his season was not that good and thats why people suddenly started to get worried about his height and attitude. As rightfully pointed by many people, nobody is having issues with Bedard's height. You know why? He had a dominating season, so nobody cares, just like nobody cared about Gretzky being small and soft.

It is absolutely possible that next season, I will come here and say that looks like Michkov is in fact dominating KHL and looks like a generational talent. We shall see, but this seasob he was just not that good.

Your argument is well known. You'be been saying the same thing for 75 pages. We get it already.
You're wrong, but your opinion is acknowledged.


I have yet to understand why certain posters feel the need to come to this thread and downplay and 18 year old's achiements like a broken record....over and over and over and over again.
It's weird, seriously.

 

[Garl]

Your argument is well known. You'be been saying the same thing for 75 pages. We get it already.
You're wrong, but your opinion is acknowledged.


I have yet to understand why certain posters feel the need to come to this thread and downplay and 18 year old's achiements like a broken record....over and over and over and over again.
It's weird, seriously.

If I was wrong he would have been 2nd overall, it is that simple.

Now draft is history, I am just coming here when I see the dumb "best season evar" argument coming back to life.

Believe it or not, I am not rooting against him, if next season he will be great, I will say that he is.

 

[Zine]

If I was wrong he would have been 2nd overall, it is that simple.

Now draft is history, I am just coming here when I see the dumb "best season evar" argument coming back to life.

Believe it or not, I am not rooting against him, if next season he will be great, I will say that he is.

No, you're coming to this thread ad nauseam saying the same crap over and over again. You're going around in circles.

It'd be cool to actually discuss Michkov instead of Garl showing up every day telling how Michkov's season was a disappointment and how CARLSSON IS BETTER!!!!

Jesus Christ enough already.
.

 

[BB88]

You’re kidding yourself, GMs try to protect their jobs too. You know that y’all took a safer pick, and you know damn well you could get burned for it. Relax, Carlssonis an awesome prospect and the right pick before Fantilli, I think he’s a top 3 pick in most every draft but Michkov has tools that are beyond him, if he puts it together he’ll be the better player. Just what I think, it’s ok to have diff opinions. Agree to disagree lol.

If Fantilli& Carlsson become franchise C’s it really doesn’t matter what Michkov becomes.

This league runs through the middle.

 

[Snotbubbles]

If Fantilli& Carlsson become franchise C’s it really doesn’t matter what Michkov becomes.

This league runs through the middle.

Define franchise C.

If Michkov becomes the next Ovechkin, will those organizations care if those players become...Sean Couturier? Barkov? Toews? Bergeron? Bergeron is a damn good center, but Ovechkin has outscored him by over 400 points in their careers. That's a large gap. How good a center do those guys have to become? Do they need to get to MacKinnon or Crosby-levels for those teams not to care?

If my team passed on the next Ovechkin, I think a Bergeron level center would be my minimum standard for me. That's a pretty high bar though. History tells us that there will be one or more players drafted ahead of Michkov that will not reach their potential.

DISCLAIMER: I'm just assuming that Michkov could become the next Ovechkin for arguments sake. He very well could flame out as well.

 

[Garl]

No, you're coming to this thread ad nauseam saying the same crap over and over again. You're going around in circles.

It'd be cool to actually discuss Michkov instead of Garl showing up every day telling how Michkov's season was a disappointment and how CARLSSON IS BETTER!!!!

Jesus Christ enough already.
.

You are not arguing in a good faith, but it was expected. Draft has proven me right rest doesn't matter

I never said Carlsson is better. He had a better season though. Next season? We will see

See ya in Demidov thread!

 

[Hanji]

My argument during the 22-23 was that Michkov lost his 1-2 draft place due to pedestrian season. Other than that his achievments and stats were of a first overall in majority of drafts.
So, I was arguing that due to how 22-23 went it is perfectly reasonable for GMs to consider selecting Carlsson and Fantilli ahead of him.

Again if Michkov scored 30 in 40 games for SKA and 10 in 11 for National Team, he would have been a 2nd overall no doubt. But his season was not that good and thats why people suddenly started to get worried about his height and attitude. As rightfully pointed by many people, nobody is having issues with Bedard's height. You know why? He had a dominating season, so nobody cares, just like nobody cared about Gretzky being small and soft.

It is absolutely possible that next season, I will come here and say that looks like Michkov is in fact dominating KHL and looks like a generational talent. We shall see, but this seasob he was just not that good.

This might have something to do with Michkov going 7th. It somewhat validates only a few select teams were on his "I will play for them" list and GMs knew it.

But if GMs chose not to even speak to Michkov because they were confident in Fantilli, Carlson, Simashev, Reinbacher, etc., the NHL is more of an amateur hour shitshow than I thought.

 

[ReimanSum1908]

the NHL is more of an amateur hour shitshow than I thought.

I honestly don't think that it's possible for the NHL to exceed my expectations for them in that regard, confirmed once again with Michkov and both the hack-jobs surrounding him, and the pre-draft scouting and interview process.

 

[Snotbubbles]

This might have something to do with Michkov going 7th. It somewhat validates only a few select teams were on his "I will play for them" list and GMs knew it.

But if GMs chose not to even speak to Michkov because they were confident in Fantilli, Carlson, Simashev, Reinbacher, etc., the NHL is more of an amateur hour shitshow than I thought.

I'm a Flyers fan and I'm struggling to see the appeal of wanting to play in Philly. I can see not wanting to play in Arizona because that franchise has been a perennial dumpster fire, but the other teams would have been fine destinations.

 

[Garl]

This might have something to do with Michkov going 7th. It somewhat validates only a few select teams were on his "I will play for them" list and GMs knew it.

But if GMs chose not to even speak to Michkov because they were confident in Fantilli, Carlson, Simashev, Reinbacher, etc., the NHL is more of an amateur hour shitshow than I thought.

This is just speculation, that he had only select number of teams. His agent said he didn't want to go to Arizona and Washington. That's it. He also said they had a video call with Anaheim.

 

[FlyguyOX]

I'm a Flyers fan and I'm struggling to see the appeal of wanting to play in Philly. I can see not wanting to play in Arizona because that franchise has been a perennial dumpster fire, but the other teams would have been fine destinations.

You think SJS and ANA have same international brand recognition as Philly as hockey towns?

And tons of players dislike playing in Canada/Montreal so not a big surprise on that one, either. He probably would prefer to just learn English and not deal with the French aspect, too.

 

[Snotbubbles]

You think SJS and ANA have same international brand recognition as Philly as hockey towns?

And tons of players dislike playing in Canada/Montreal so not a big surprise on that one, either. He probably would prefer to just learn English and not deal with the French aspect, too.

Flyers have been a dumpster fire for nearly a decade. Philly isn't a hockey town. You have your stepford fans and the rest don't give a crap. It's a football city. Then a baseball city. Then a basketball city. Then maybe, they care about hockey. The Flyers "brand" is as low as I've ever seen it in the past 50 years.

 

[Hanji]

This is just speculation, that he had only select number of teams. His agent said he didn't want to go to Arizona and Washington. That's it. He also said they had a video call with Anaheim.

There is no speculation. When the top 6 teams of the draft do not personally meet with a player of Michkov's calibre, it prooves 100% that his fall to 7 was greatly affected by outside influences.

In any normal situation there's no justification, whatsoever, for these teams to not personally meet with a player of Michkov's talent level; even if they prefer someone else.

It's one of 2 things:
A. His fall to 7 was not on-ice related, or
B. These 6 GMs are the most incompetent and inept GMs in the history of professional sports.

 

[Dr Jablonski PhD]

Well, I wouldn't say his goal-scoring is based off his shot. Michkov probably scores more goals around the net for a smaller player than any player we've seen so far. His net sense is the best I've ever seen. Most of his goals are because of his mind. They are because he outmaneuvered defenseman and the goalie.

And sure, he can shoot it pretty well too. His shot is more about deception than power. The deception is among the best you'll see. The power is very good.

Well said. His shot is a plus shot but the special aspect of it is the deception and his IQ. I repeatedly see him aiming for areas that I don't see really anyone else aim for. He's probably the most original/innovative player I've ever watched in their draft year. His understanding of the game and ability to implement that in real time is on another level

Homie please,
Beating goalies with his mind,
That's as believable as moving his moms out the projects with his rhymes

From the MMdoom album Matvillainy

Tell me you don't understand hockey on a deep level without telling me. So much of hockey is about IQ and creativity. Have you ever seen someone do a lacrosse goal and tuck it low instead of high? His ability to read situations in real time and change on the fly is otherworldy. Sometimes it almost seems like he knows the state of the whole ice surface without having to look

 

[Sasso09]

Why do you think Fantilli is a worse prospect than Michkov? Fantilli is Eichel level prospect and no his ceiling isn’t just ppg but Mackinnon level player.

& you’re not landing Mackinnon in a trade for any similar aged winger in this league period

Fantilli is my favorite prospect in at least 5 years. I think he is a better prospect than Eichel.

Neither of them are remotely close to Michkov. Literally only Bedard, Crosby and McDavid match him as a prospect in their draft year in the last 20 years

 

[Sasso09]

I don't think Fantilli is an Eichel level prospect. I think people have grouped them together because they are roughly the same size/good skaters, have a bunch of basic similarities (yet the details are quite different), and played their draft season in NCAA and succeeded as late-birthdays. I'll leave it at that to not make this point too long.

As for Fantilli and Michkov, Fantilli is a very good prospect but we've kind of seen his flaws show up at times. He didn't have a good World Juniors. He wasn't good the prior WJC18's. His first USHL season wasn't that good. There are people that think he has weak hockey sense. There are also questions if he truly has NHL level elite offense to be a dude that you turn to and ask to make a play when you are down late in a game and need a goal.

With Michkov, what are the true questions about his hockey game, not the other stuff? Look at his EP page, like 75% of the seasons or teams listed there, he's breaking some sort of record. He puts up absolute video game numbers we've never seen before (in a lot of cases). No one (except the odd really hot-take) seems to doubt that he has otherworldly scoring instincts, hockey sense and puck skills. And maybe most importantly, the dude has literally scored goals at unprecedented rates since there are seasons on his EP page. You can talk about Fantilli being a two-way center, this or that, he'll probably be a pretty good offensive player, he skates well. That's all cool. I'm sure he'll be a good NHL player and maybe very good, but if Michkov continues scoring goals at the rate he has once he gets to the NHL, he'll become the best goal-scorer in the world. Fantilli's ceiling simply doesn't come close to that. Even if he's Jack Eichel, Jack Eichel's best season he was maybe the 3rd best player in hockey. Since then he's a borderline top 10 center, at best.

Same you could probably say for Bedard's potential as Michkov's, but I guess that's the point. When you have such a lengthy and historic record at lower levels of doing the most important thing in hockey (putting the puck in the net), that trumps all the dependable elements you think Fantilli and Carlsson might bring.

Explain how Eichel was a better prospect than Fantilli?

Fantilli had more goals in less games and a higher total PPG in the same league with much less help.

Eichel's teammates put up 61, 51 and 50 points to his 71

Fantilli played 5 less games than the next 3 top scorers, he had 65 in 38 games, teammates 48, 43, 39 all in 39 games.

On top of that, Fantilli is the more complete prospect at the time in terms of defense and physicality.

I'd be shocked if Fantilli doesn't have a much better first 8 years than Eichel had, and during their draft years no one is taking Eichel over him

There's a difference between having some cockiness and arrogance like Brad Marchand and being a serious locker room cancer teams won't put up with. Things like SKA sending Michkov away to Sochi because they don't want to deal with him anymore, Washington scouts being disgusted with his disrespect when meeting him, Columbus not even bothering to book an interview, Montreal and San Jose implicitly speaking about this kid not fitting with their culture and how there are aspects about him they don't like, how he talks to his teammates, how he talks to the coaches and how he behaves off the ice is really concerning. You even see it all the time with teams like Nashville buying out the contract of Duchene despite being their best forward for the past 4 years, Winnipeg stripping Wheeler of captaincy then buying out his contract a year later, Laine as a big-time 30 to 40 goal scorer in the league being traded away and Subban a fan-favorite in Montreal traded for a 3 year older but better leader in Weber. Again wish him the best of luck in Philly but if you thought the relationship between Torts and PLD was bad, wait till he comes to North America with this attitude.

You literally have no idea what you're talking about lmao, none of those things are facts.

 

[Sasso09]

Co-director of amateur scouting Nick Bobrov when asked why the Habs opted to draft Reinbacher over Michkov : "We're building a culture; we want certain things that permeate that culture as we keep building this. We felt that this player embodies the type of culture that Jeff, Kent, Marty and the coaching staff are trying to build, and that was not a trivial matter to us. So, culture was an important word."

Lapointe and Bobrov: Culture an important factor at this year's Draft | Montréal Canadiens

The Habs' lead scouts reflected on a busy two days in Tennessee

www.nhl.com

Washington Capitals scout Andrei Nikolishin concerning Matvei Michkov:
"To me, he's first or second in skill [in the draft]. But when it comes to character, to attitude to his teammates, coaching staff, management, fans - the man has now fallen very low in the eyes of all the scouts, all the managers. It has nothing to do with the tragedy. Information about the player is collected - how he talks to his partners, how he talks to the coaches, how he behaves off the ice. And that's where it gets rough for Matvey. There are a lot of nuances that could be revealed. I can show you the correspondence when I wanted to meet with him and, as a scout, ask him some questions and do an interview, how he responds. I've never seen such disrespect in my life for other people"

Blue Jackets GM Jarmo Kekäläinen when asked if they met with Michkov or whether were planning on having a meeting with him before the draft, his response? : a resounding no


Anonymous SKA Petersburg teammate: "He doesn't listen to anything the veterans tell him, he doesn't listen to the coaches, he doesn't hesitate to laugh at them and send them away. He only does what he wants. We really tried to give him a chance and understand him, but we realized he's just a piece of shit."

Sharks GM Mike Grier why he didn't choose Michkov with the 4th pick :


You can choose to believe what you want but by connecting the dots, it's clear his attitude and major character problems are the reasons why he fell to #7, and it had little to do with his 2026 contract in Russia.

For every article you pull up that is opinion based I can pull up 4 to show Michkov Ghosted Columbus who made several attempts to contact him, as well as Arizona and the Sharks who came very close to drafting him. MANY execs in MTL were pissed they didn't take him.

At the end of the day, it's confirmation bias, not fact. None of us know what's real or fake, what we DO KNOW is that teams release these lies regularly to tame fanbases that are pissed at their GM for fumbling the bag.

Seems pretty obvious that's what's going on here, many of his teammates already spoke out in his defense, 3 of them were with him at the draft for support

Homie please,
Beating goalies with his mind,
That's as believable as moving his moms out the projects with his rhymes

From the MMdoom album Matvillainy

Rappers pull this off every day

 

[Sasso09]

Lol what? Michkov had a generational year

If he had a better season he would have been 2nd overall regardless of his contract status. All of this additional factors became relevant because he had a pedestrian year by the standarts that he set himself before.

Not only is 20 points in 30 games impressive for a 17 year old in the world's 2nd biggest league that's much lower scoring in the NHL, the fact he did it with 3rd line minutes and a putrid team makes it the best KHL season of any draft year player ever. What do you mean?

I don't understand either. 20 points in 30 games is not impressive, nor is 24 points in 53 games or 32 points in 52 games.

Not suggesting that this is the case with Michkov, but a team could certainly showcase and inflate a players stats by giving more favorable ice time and linemates, than was given to ov and malkin, respectively.

Because I refuse to believe that an 18 year old ovechkin was less of a player offensively than 95% of the players on this list

Statistics Russian Superleague 2003-2004 - Eurohockey.com

www.eurohockey.com

 

[Frank Drebin]

Lol what? Michkov had a generational year


Not only is 20 points in 30 games impressive for a 17 year old in the world's 2nd biggest league that's much lower scoring in the NHL, the fact he did it with 3rd line minutes and a putrid team makes it the best KHL season of any draft year player ever. What do you mean?

Do you have the ice time and linemate stats for other noteworthy young players? I couldn't find anything even for Michkov

 

[FlyguyOX]

Flyers have been a dumpster fire for nearly a decade. Philly isn't a hockey town. You have your stepford fans and the rest don't give a crap. It's a football city. Then a baseball city. Then a basketball city. Then maybe, they care about hockey. The Flyers "brand" is as low as I've ever seen it in the past 50 years.

While all are true to an extent, it’s still an internationally recognizable brand

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Explain how Eichel was a better prospect than Fantilli?

Fantilli had more goals in less games and a higher total PPG in the same league with much less help.

Eichel's teammates put up 61, 51 and 50 points to his 71

Fantilli played 5 less games than the next 3 top scorers, he had 65 in 38 games, teammates 48, 43, 39 all in 39 games.

On top of that, Fantilli is the more complete prospect at the time in terms of defense and physicality.

I'd be shocked if Fantilli doesn't have a much better first 8 years than Eichel had, and during their draft years no one is taking Eichel over him

Did you read my post or just skim it?

I said the details of how they play are different, and you then put forth their stats, as if they are the same player and stats are going to be a tiebreaker.

Let's get the stats stuff out of the way. They both had great statistical seasons as freshman. Eichel played on a much worse team, and carried them. Fantilli played on a much better team, and was merely their best player. You could come down on either side of who had the better freshman season. It doesn't matter much, especially for this discussion, as they play the game differently.

There are some basic similarities between them being 6'2 centers that skate well with a significant amount of offense. I guess people also want to compare them because they are late birthdays and played NCAA their draft season.

That's where the similarities end. The details suggest two very different players at that age. Let's start with the first obvious difference. Eichel shoots right and Fantilli shoots left. That on it's own isn't enough to suggest they are different, but typically people don't compare two players that shoot with different hands. Eichel is a very smooth player with the puck. He has a very long skating stride that is very distinctive, and isn't something you often see out of players taller than 6'0. Fantilli's skating stride is good. It's just not as smooth. He skates well. Maybe as well, but the mechanics of their skating are different. As to their skillsets, Eichel is more naturally gifted. He's an equal threat passing, shooting, puck-handling, puck-protection, hockey sense. He can do it all offensively. Probably the most naturally talented draft pick among forwards outside of McDavid in the last 10 years pure tools-wise. He's grade A in all of them on the offensive end.

Fantilli is talented offensively, but doesn't have the control of a game on his stick the way Eichel does. He's more of a shooter stylistically than Eichel. His playmaking and hockey sense aren't bad, but not Eichel level. He's a more competitive player. More grit. More physical. Probably a better defensive player at the same age. He also has a different demeanor. Comes off quiet, lead by his play on the ice, plays hard every game and in every zone. Eichel at that age was known as very cocky, vocal leader, and takes plenty of shifts off, especially on the defensive end.

So I don't know if Fantilli will be a better player. Maybe he will. Eichel's career has been upended by injuries, some of those Buffalo teams in his early years being terrible, and then probably his own lack of maturity early in his career. I generally think he's living up to his potential since 2019-20, and he's finally put it all together, but there was also that unfortunate injury saga with Buffalo where the injury was unlucky and I thought Buffalo really shafted him with how it was handled before he was traded. Didn't help him at the start with Vegas that he missed so much time and jumped right into the middle of an NHL season when he returned. We've seen at times that his top-end is literally one of hockey's best players. He showed that the 2019-20 season, and then he showed that in the past playoffs. Maybe he's better off not being the captain on Buffalo and better off being only the best player on the best team in the NHL.

Wouldn't be shocked if Fantilli had a better career, especially if he remains injury free. He's probably more ready to be a pro athlete from the non-talent standpoint than Eichel was, but he simply wasn't Eichel as a prospect. Eichel was a whole different level. Fantilli is like a high class Matty Beniers as a prospect.