Olympics: Russia possibly disqualified from Pyeongchang (UPD: IOC Suspends Team Russia)

[TheSituation]

So you are okay with those who've worked their whole lives to get to the Olympics and are clean not being allowed to compete because some person in their country who they might've never heard of cheated?

For christ's sake did you even watch it? All athletes can apply to compete, even the team sports athletes.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

The athletes can still participate and win medals and accomplish success as individuals, what they've been practicing long and hard for. What's the problem?

So you think they'll be allowed to go? I don't think they will.

Also, no one grows up wanting to represent the corrupt Olympic flag in the Olympics, its a national pride event. It's not fair to paint all with a broad brush, which is exactly what this is doing.

 

[Jablkon]

They punished the athletes, which makes no sense. Dilutes the brand of the Olympics, and punishes people who had no part in the cheating.

I would understand to it, but what kind of penalty you can choose against state system. Final report is obviously from july 2016. It doesnt look that Russia was much helpfull to IOC in regards to investigation. I didnt also read any official Russia statement to IOC in regards to that report. So I guess it didnt really help to convince IOC that things are changing. But I am admitting here this is my speculation.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

For christ's sake did you even watch it? All athletes can apply to compete, even the team sports athletes.

Under a different flag for the biggest National Pride event in the world.

Punish the country and their athletes for the actions of a few? Makes no sense to me.

 

[TheSituation]

Under a different flag for the biggest National Pride event in the world.

Punish the country and their athletes for the actions of a few? Makes no sense to me.

Punish their country for a state sponsored cheating system? Where government officials facilitated the compromise of over 1,000 drug tests?? Sounds absolutely fair. Those atheletes will get to compete. They can blame their leaders for failing them.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I would understand to it, but what kind of penalty you can choose against state system. Final report is obviously from july 2016. It doesnt look that Russia was much helpfull to IOC in regards to investigation. I didnt also read any official Russia statement to IOC in regards to that report. So I guess it didnt realy help to convince IOC that things are changing. But I am amditting here this is my speculation.

I think there are measures that can be taken, whether its the Olympic committee, make them clean house, take away funding. But punishing the athletes who are clean and the citizens? I don't think thats fair, at all. It would be like FIFA saying Peru can't compete in the World Cup because of Guerrero's failed drug test.

 

[IslesNorway]

So you think they'll be allowed to go? I don't think they will.

Also, no one grows up wanting to represent the corrupt Olympic flag in the Olympics, its a national pride event. It's not fair to paint all with a broad brush, which is exactly what this is doing.

Going to the Olympics is a matter of national pride for all athletes but it is only in Russia that the government decides to dope it's athletes right under the nose of the IOC in Sotchi and before. Don't you see this had to be done? Russia has such a long and sinister history of doping that nobody will trust them if only individuals were punished. Those who can prove themselves to be clean can still take part, so if they have nothing to hide, then it's not a huge problem.

It's the Russian people who should protest to their own government for f***king up the Olympics for them. I guess that in true Russian manner there will be no coverage allowed of the games at all.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Punish their country for a state sponsored cheating system? Where government officials facilitated the compromise of over 1,000 drug tests?? Sounds absolutely fair. Those atheletes will get to compete. Blame your leaders for failing them.

My leaders? My leaders are in Washington, DC. I guess now if you don't support a blanket ban for all Russians, like people like you support, you will get construed as Russian.

You are taking out your anger at the government on the citizens. That should never happen in sport. Don't blame the citizens and athletes for the mistakes of a few athletes and the government. Of course, I don't support anarchy, you can't have complete chaos, there needs to be rules and regulations, but if those aren't followed, those who didn't follow them should be punished, not those who did. Banning everyone doesn't solve any problems.

 

[IslesNorway]

I think there are measures that can be taken, whether its the Olympic committee, make them clean house, take away funding. But punishing the athletes who are clean and the citizens? I don't think thats fair, at all. It would be like FIFA saying Peru can't compete in the World Cup because of Guerrero's failed drug test.

If the Peruvian football association decided to dope it's entire national team for several years then yes, but they didn't did they? That's what the Russians did. When the GOVERNMENT cheats, the country suffers - very easy.

 

[KrejciMVP]

My leaders? My leaders are in Washington, DC. I guess now if you don't support a blanket ban for all Russians, like people like you support, you will get construed as Russian.

You are taking out your anger at the government on the citizens. That should never happen in sport. Don't blame the citizens and athletes for the mistakes of a few athletes and the government. Of course, I don't support anarchy, you can't have complete chaos, there needs to be rules and regulations, but if those aren't followed, those who didn't follow them should be punished, not those who did. Banning everyone doesn't solve any problems.

I just find it hilarious for Americans to lecture anyone on steroids and doping.

Lance Armstrong conned the world for years

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Going to the Olympics is a matter of national pride for all athletes but it is only in Russia that the government decides to dope it's athletes right under the nose of the IOC in Sotchi and before. Don't you see this had to be done? Russia has such a long and sinister history of doping that nobody will trust them if only individuals were punished. Those who can prove themselves to be clean can still take part, so if they have nothing to hide, then it's not a huge problem.

It's the Russian people who should protest to their own government for f***king up the Olympics for them. I guess that in true Russian manner there will be no coverage allowed of the games at all.

My problem with this and I guess you'd fall under the Olympic decision is painting with a broad brush, which is exactly what you responded to, but still ended up doing.

I'm not arguing with you about the Russian government, I don't see how it helps the situation at all to ban athletes under their flag. By making them compete under the Olympic flag, you are saying all of the country did something wrong, not just a few dopers and the government.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

If the Peruvian football association decided to dope it's entire national team for several years then yes, but they didn't did they? That's what the Russians did. When the GOVERNMENT cheats, the country suffers - very easy.

So the entire Russian hockey team doped? Where is proof of that?

 

[TheSituation]

My leaders? My leaders are in Washington, DC. I guess now if you don't support a blanket ban for all Russians, like people like you support, you will get construed as Russian.

You are taking out your anger at the government on the citizens. That should never happen in sport. Don't blame the citizens and athletes for the mistakes of a few athletes and the government. Of course, I don't support anarchy, you can't have complete chaos, there needs to be rules and regulations, but if those aren't followed, those who didn't follow them should be punished, not those who did. Banning everyone doesn't solve any problems.

I apologize for my misconceptions. However, how can the IOC punish the officials of a sovereign nation???

 

[IslesNorway]

My problem with this and I guess you'd fall under the Olympic decision is painting with a broad brush, which is exactly what you responded to, but still ended up doing.

I'm not arguing with you about the Russian government, I don't see how it helps the situation at all to ban athletes under their flag. By making them compete under the Olympic flag, you are saying all of the country did something wrong, not just a few dopers and the government.

It's not a few dopers I'm afraid. Russia has already been stripped off a third of their medals from Sotchi and there will be more. They practically doped anyone with an outside chance of winning...It's the only right thing to do.

 

[Jablkon]

I think there are measures that can be taken, whether its the Olympic committee, make them clean house, take away funding. But punishing the athletes who are clean and the citizens? I don't think thats fair, at all. It would be like FIFA saying Peru can't compete in the World Cup because of Guerrero's failed drug test.

I dont know who is Guerrero but did you read this https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/resources/files/20160718_ip_report_newfinal.pdf ? Its tough penalty but I would really say athletes can blame only system. I mean even officials could expect such a penalty is a serious option so I just wonder whether they cooperated with IOC or what they did. I mean its a loose loose situation for everybody but saying its IOC mistake....I see alot could have been done from russian side first.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I apologize for my misconceptions. However, how can the IOC punish the officials of a sovereign nation???

I don't claim to be an expert in this subject, the IOC is, this is their thing, but I clearly don't agree with banning all. They should've found a better solution here that doesn't paint the whole country with a broad brush.

 

[bottomofthefoodchain]

So you are okay with those who've worked their whole lives to get to the Olympics and are clean not being allowed to compete because some person in their country who they might've never heard of cheated?

It sucks for them but they should not blame the IOC, but their own country.
And as others have already stated, they can still compete.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

It's not a few dopers I'm afraid. Russia has already been stripped off a third of their medals from Sotchi and there will be more. They practically doped anyone with an outside chance of winning...It's the only right thing to do.

The exact number is irrelevant. The people who relate to this thread on HF did not dope, and therefore should not be painted with a broad brush.

 

[FiLe]

Guys, don't you read this thread? It was already mentioned here that the neutrality thing does not just concern the individual athletes. The Russian hockey team is allowed to compete too. The IOC confirmed this. So they didn't really ban the squad, just their colors.

 

[swiftwin]

My leaders? My leaders are in Washington, DC. I guess now if you don't support a blanket ban for all Russians, like people like you support, you will get construed as Russian.

You are taking out your anger at the government on the citizens. That should never happen in sport. Don't blame the citizens and athletes for the mistakes of a few athletes and the government. Of course, I don't support anarchy, you can't have complete chaos, there needs to be rules and regulations, but if those aren't followed, those who didn't follow them should be punished, not those who did. Banning everyone doesn't solve any problems.

They didn't ban all Russians. They banned the Russian state, the Russian flag, the Russian anthem. Which is the correct punishment for Russian state agents tampering with samples at an IOC facility. They are allowing clean Russian athletes to participate under a neutral flag. The hockey team is among those allowed to participate under a neutral flag.

 

[kunekune]

Guys, don't you read this thread? It was already mentioned here that the neutrality thing does not just concern the individual athletes. The Russian hockey team is allowed to compete too. So they didn't really ban the squad, just their colors.

But most likely KHL won't allow their players to to compete under neutral colors.

 

[FiLe]

But most likely KHL won't allow their players to to compete under neutral colors.

There was a statement here that also mentioned the players are in favor of going, despite losing their national colors.

Plus the KHL is contractually obligated by the IIHF to release non-Russian players.

 

[Mattilaus]

The exact number is irrelevant. The people who relate to this thread on HF did not dope, and therefore should not be painted with a broad brush.

I agree, stupid Russia making all their athletes look bad. They should have thought of this before they instituted their doping program.

 

[kunekune]

There was a statement here that also mentioned the players are in favor of going, despite losing their national colors.

Plus the KHL is contractually obligated by the IIHF to release non-Russian players.

There are also statements that KHL will just remake their schedule. Resign from IIHF if necessary.

Here are couple links.

After Russia ban, more chaos for 2018 Olympic hockey
Bob McKenzie (@TSNBobMcKenzie) | Twitter


But in the end it would hilarious if the most nationalist country in the world would allow their biggest propaganda product to compete under IOC colors.

IOC is the organization that just banned the country from Olympics.

 

[PanniniClaus]

The competed as the CIS in 92 and won Gold.