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Olympics: Russia possibly disqualified from Pyeongchang (UPD: IOC Suspends Team Russia)

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Fantomas said:
Rodchenkov's alleged mental illness is irrelevant. What's relevant is the fact that this expert witness is the only one to provide any substantial testimony to the IOC, that his story is being accepted uncritically and without any opportunity for Russia to redirect or to provide its own witnesses and expertise. In fact, this is how things are done in all civilized trials. But this matter is too much of a sham to let such due process happen.
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Not true. Russia were allowed in Rio because they had not been allowed to properly defend themselves, but this time they have - and they have failed. Their arguments have been heard and found to be unsatisfactory. The evidence is damning and the only Russian athletes who didn't look doped in Sochi were the hockey team...

Russia really should be banned from all sports until they clean up their act properly. The sporting world is poorer without good Russian competing but the world needs to be 100% sure that they are clean or else we are better off without. The fact that they continue in the ways of the Soviets and East Germany speaks volumes about their general attitude.

One can only hope that the IOC will continue to show balls like this and take a good long look at how China runs its system. I will not be surprised if there suddenly appear som great skiers out of nowhere from there for Beijing...
 
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I think many of you are missing the key point why Russia was banned as country. It was because they refused to comply WADA's and IOC's road map on how to fix their current anti-doping system. One can only wonder why Russians didn't want a tighter control system in place.

And actually this ban is not harsh at all, Russians are still allowed to compete and are even allowed in team events. Only thing that is missing is not playing the hymn of Soviet Union if they happen to win.
 
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I don't see KHL not going to Korea if the Russian team is allowed to play, even if under international flag. It is their best shot at gold in 20+ years.

The rhetoric might be suiting for as well - 'they tried to stop us, they ridiculed us, our home grown players practiced like hell. we proved them wrong. we will play the national anthem in our hearts and in the red square, when our heroes return.' heck, they could easily do a film based on this.
 
Fantomas said:
Rodchenkov's alleged mental illness is irrelevant. What's relevant is the fact that this expert witness is the only one to provide any substantial testimony to the IOC, that his story is being accepted uncritically and without any opportunity for Russia to redirect or to provide its own witnesses and expertise. In fact, this is how things are done in all civilized trials. But this matter is too much of a sham to let such due process happen.
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At first that report mentioned specifically one more person and others under confidentiality. And you are right. Its from July 2016. So you had one year to react.Thats what everybody suppose from you, that when you were awared about risks you took your own initiative and react. Iam not disappointed you didnt because at least somebody on very top of Russia probably still has some morale that it was even impossible for him to deny it all.But stop blaming your "west" and pretend your country is full of incompents who dont know what options they have.
 
Jablkon said:
At first that report mentioned specifically one more person and others under confidentiality. And you are right. Its from July 2016. So you had one year to react.Thats what everybody suppose from you, that when you were awared about risks you took your own initiative and react. Iam not disappointed you didnt because at least somebody on very top of Russia probably still has some morale that it was even impossible for him to deny it all.But stop blaming your "west" and pretend your country is full of incompents who dont know what options they have.
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When the West gets to be judge, jury and executioner there is a problem. They decide who gets to speak under confidentiality, they pick the witnesses, ban athletes without evidence of doping, set all the rules of the process and somehow you think that's ok.

It's not even a black-and-white matter of guilt but rather one of proportion. Not only has the IOC's burden of proof not been met as for the accusation of state-sponsored doping, they choose to overreach and punish innocent athletes. That is over the line and Russia will be justified in abandoning the Olympics altogether.

tomi2 said:
They should also ban China and the US...What a joke this is.
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Gee, I wonder if some "confidential" informants can be found to speak out about doping in Western countries.

GX said:
I don't see KHL not going to Korea if the Russian team is allowed to play, even if under international flag. It is their best shot at gold in 20+ years.

The rhetoric might be suiting for as well - 'they tried to stop us, they ridiculed us, our home grown players practiced like hell. we proved them wrong. we will play the national anthem in our hearts and in the red square, when our heroes return.' heck, they could easily do a film based on this.
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I agree because this is all about framing. But as I have argued the Russians need to address their long-term intentions about the Olympic process before attending and reject the accusations made against them.

If any athletes actually go they should participate in protest of the system.

IslesNorway said:
One can only hope that the IOC will continue to show balls like this and take a good long look at how China runs its system. I will not be surprised if there suddenly appear som great skiers out of nowhere from there for Beijing...
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IOC's actions toward China have nothing to do with balls. It is not politically expedient to go after China, but it made sense to do so with Russia due to their political and economic vulnerabilities.

People want to treat this matter like it has something to do with justice and science, whereas it's just a simple case of power in politics.
 
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Fantomas said:
Gee, I wonder if some "confidential" informants can be found to speak out about doping in Western countries.
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Western countries with established black labs that accept samples through a hole in the wall ? I'm sure there are TONS of them, but they pay the extortion to the WADA cabal to keep their names out of it, I'm pretty sure. it's all very hush hush.
 
Fantomas said:
When the West gets to be judge, jury and executioner there is a problem. They decide who gets to speak under confidentiality, they pick the witnesses, ban athletes without evidence of doping, set all the rules of the process and somehow you think that's ok.

It's not even a black-and-white matter of guilt but rather one of proportion. Not only has the IOC's burden of proof not been met as for the accusation of state-sponsored doping, they choose to overreach and punish innocent athletes. That is over the line and Russia will be justified in abandoning the Olympics altogether.
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It's not the West- It's the World. Blaming the West is just more of the classic " the West hates Russia" mentality that you've been taught for the past 100 years. If the IOC didn't find the evidence damning they wouldn't have done this and got massive worldwide support in doing so.
The clean Russian athletes (If they even exist) should be the ones to speak out against their bosses in the Ministry of Sports and the Olympic committee because they are the true losers in all of this.
Nobody outside Russia are inclined to believe the Kremlin propaganda this time - and rightly so. The earth is still round even if your leaders tell you it is not
 
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sandysan said:
Western countries with established black labs that accept samples through a hole in the wall ? I'm sure there are TONS of them, but they pay the extortion to the WADA cabal to keep their names out of it, I'm pretty sure. it's all very hush hush.
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It doesn't necessarily have to be this complicated. With the meldonium scandal we have learned that the definition of doping is extremely fluid and that certain governing bodies have unlimited freedom in setting parameters and applying them toward drugs. Meldonium wasn't doping for many years, but suddenly it became doping. A drug that is scientifically known to not be performance enhancing was banned very suddenly by persons who knew that it was extremely widespread in certain countries in the former Soviet block. The same persons also most likely knew that the drug took months to clear an athlete's system.

They banned it anyway, knowing what would happen. Suddenly scores of athletes from Russia and these other countries became dopers. Just like that. What a propaganda coup.

And now every one of these athletes is tainted as a result of political moves. That's what power in politics can do.
 
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IslesNorway said:
It's not the West- It's the World. Blaming the West is just more of the classic " the West hates Russia" mentality that you've been taught for the past 100 years. If the IOC didn't find the evidence damning they wouldn't have done this and got massive worldwide support in doing so.
The clean Russian athletes (If they even exist) should be the ones to speak out against their bosses in the Ministry of Sports and the Olympic committee because they are the true losers in all of this.
Nobody outside Russia are inclined to believe the Kremlin propaganda this time - and rightly so. The earth is still round even if your leaders tell you it is not
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Your problem here is that you think propaganda only flows one way.
 
IslesNorway said:
It's not the West- It's the World. Blaming the West is just more of the classic " the West hates Russia" mentality that you've been taught for the past 100 years. If the IOC didn't find the evidence damning they wouldn't have done this and got massive worldwide support in doing so.

The world actually wants to see Russian athletes compete and win - if they play by the rules, but when the desire to win at home makes you bend the rules you get punished.

The clean Russian athletes (If they even exist) should be the ones to speak out against their bosses in the Ministry of Sports and the Olympic committee because they are the true losers in all of this.

Nobody outside Russia are inclined to believe the Kremlin propaganda this time - and rightly so. The earth is still round even if your leaders tell you it is not
Click to expand...
 
Fantomas said:
IOC's actions toward China have nothing to do with balls. It is not politically expedient to go after China, but it made sense to do so with Russia due to their political and economic vulnerabilities.

People want to treat this matter like it has something to do with justice and science, whereas it's just a simple case of power in politics.
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If evidence surfaced of state run doping program or cover up, the IOC would 100% go after China.
 
Gotta love this line from IslesNorway: "The clean Russian athletes (If they even exist)"

This is precisely the kind of intimidation Russian athletes (if they attend) will face in Korea. Forget that Russian athletes are getting banned without an ounce of proof, certain people have already made up their minds. And Russians are brainwashed?
 
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Jussi said:
If evidence surfaced of state run doping program or cover up, the IOC would 100% go after China.
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Evidence does not simply "surface." Cases are made based on political expedience, awareness of geopolitical implications and in many cases specific dealings (like the one made with Rodchenkov).
 
Reading the usual Russian posters response here is exactly like reading their responses after their National team loses a hockey game, anti-russian west conspiracies everywhere.

There is a slight variation in that sloppy ice,reffing and traveling schedules, bad accomodations aren't involved but evil west political powerplays and mental illnesses take their place.

We should have just one thread for this, call it Russian complaints or something like that.
 
Fantomas said:
Gotta love this line from IslesNorway: "The clean Russian athletes (If they even exist)"

This is precisely the kind of intimidation Russian athletes (if they attend) will face in Korea. Forget that Russian athletes are getting banned without an ounce of proof, certain people have already made up their minds. And Russians are brainwashed?
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The proof is against individuals ( think Legkov and all the cross country skiers) and the Federation for being behind it. It is there for all to read but perhaps they are not telling you that in Russia? Has Russian media even published the report? Have they published the threats made by the Minister of Sport? If Russia wants to be taken seriously, complying with the rules and having its officials behave is rule no.1!
 
The ban gets more interesting when IOC doesn't do anything about rampart North American doping issues. Human growth hormone is a good example...

Now that Russians are dealt with, we can expect US ADA to monitor NHL?
 
gwh said:
The ban gets more interesting when IOC doesn't do anything about rampart North American doping issues. Human growth hormone is a good example...

Now that Russians are dealt with, we can expect US ADA to monitor NHL?
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When it's individuals doing it, the IOC nor WADA can't really do much about it until someone gets caught (see Marion Jones and the Balco case).
 
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Jussi said:
I'm not sure you have followed the proceedings. BobbyMac tweeted last week that Fasel told him Russia would face consequences if KHL were to block players from other countries participating in the Olympics" Boris Mihailov said Russia could be thrown out of international hockey altogether and said KHL blocking player would backfire on them. In case you didn't know, KHL operates under the Russian federation and therefore must follow IIHF regulations/rules/whatever. All federations are required to release player for international duty.
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If the top political leadership is in favor of it, do you think the KHL will say, "No Volodya, we must defy your wishes, because we have been threatened by Rene Fasel, the mustachioed man from Switzerland, who might provisionally suspend us from the WC in May. Obviously, Volodya, the World's attention is much more intensively focused on the IIHF May championships than on the Olympic Games." I think, overall, the KHL is equal as frightened of Fasel as the NHL is.
 
Jussi said:
Probably not public but I'd guess it involves tampring with samples rather than a positive test. Actually according to Swedish sources it's exactly that. His and two other skiiers test were switched.
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Yeah based on Rodchenkov's testimony. Meanwhile Legkov has never tested positive.
 
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