GDT: Running Preseason GDT | Game 2 09/25/24 | STL @ CBJ | 7 PM EST

[CBJ goalie]

Sawchenko with poise on that PK.
I see a better team D structure already, and we're only on game 2 in pre-season.

 

[ThirdPeriodTurtle]

Sawchenko looking good here towards the end.

 

[Seedtype]

NOOOOOOOO!! *as I react to the chili chant*

 

[ThirdPeriodTurtle]

3-0 Guddy puts it in from the d-zone, probably accidentally. Edit: I guess it's Johnson then.

 

[Viqsi]

Well, crud. Now I have no idea what's going to happen.

 

[CBJx614]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1839118364783833129

 

[Seedtype]

Double shutout baby.

 

[Viqsi]

I really should have predicted a goal for Kent Mohnson.

 

[ThirdPeriodTurtle]

It's preseason. Still leaves a better feeling to win. Both goalies played well. Johnson was fun to watch. JvR surprised me and seems like a good match with some of our more skilled guys like Johnson, he seems to have a playmaking mind, hopefully he can keep up. McElligott mentioned Pyyhtia many times and said he does the little things right, I guess that's good. Christiansen looked good, he just might make the team like some here have been thinking/hoping.

Johnson becoming Gaudreau 2.0 would be a great story for the season.

 

[KJ Dangler]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1839120814878187781

 

[CBJx614]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1839126432598876417

Well I said Elvis needed a confidence boost. Let's see how he plays moving forward as the competition gets harder and the actual team takes shape. Having solid and healthy goaltending would do absolute wonders for a young team, but is also very dependent on competent D in front of them.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

as a guy who has been pumping kent johnson, luca pinelli and denton mateychuk's tires around these parts for a while, last night was a fun game to watch.

kent looks poised and dangerous out there. mateychuk is the platonic ideal of a modern defenseman and is probably one of their four best guys there right now. and pinelli looks like he definitely has a path to being an NHL player.

 

[Doggy]

I thought the team played pretty well as a whole last night and St Louis did send some talent to Columbus. The PK was good all night and the passing was far crisper than I was expecting for game two of the pre-season. Mala-testy seemed to be in mid-season form and liked Guddy keeping the Blues honest from a physical stand point.

Like others have said, KJ looks thicker and played real well. He is the only guy on this team that has Johnny's playmaking skill set and we need him to take a jump in his third season.

Mateychuk looks good but I hope they are patient and start him in Cleveland.

One thought on Christiansen. I think he looks NHL ready. I cannot imagine GMDW risking losing him for nothing by sending him back to Cleveland and passing him through waivers. For all the times we bitch about how shitty the organization has been at developing players, this is a player they handled correctly. Took their time with him and showed patience. To develop him correctly just to lose him through waivers seems negligent. I don't expect he will ever be more than a 3rd+ pairing guy but teams need reliable third pairing defenseman. Maybe there is a logjam now between JMFJ, Harris and Christiansen plus Mateychuk and Jiricek on the way but if we have learned anything...injuries happen and teams will use much more than seven to get through a season. I see this team carrying eight into the regular season while they figure things out (unless GMDW has the cojones to start Jiricek in Cleveland). Maybe GMDW is working the phones to trade a d-man.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

One thought on Christiansen. I think he looks NHL ready. I cannot imagine GMDW risking losing him for nothing by sending him back to Cleveland and passing him through waivers. For all the times we bitch about how shitty the organization has been at developing players, this is a player they handled correctly. Took their time with him and showed patience. To develop him correctly just to lose him through waivers seems negligent. I don't expect he will ever be more than a 3rd+ pairing guy but teams need reliable third pairing defenseman. Maybe there is a logjam now between JMFJ, Harris and Christiansen plus Mateychuk and Jiricek on the way but if we have learned anything...injuries happen and teams will use much more than seven to get through a season. I see this team carrying eight into the regular season while they figure things out (unless GMDW has the cojones to start Jiricek in Cleveland). Maybe GMDW is working the phones to trade a d-man.

agree that christiansen 100% looks like an NHL defenseman at this point but if they're working the phones to trade a defenseman, it's probably him.

as much as i want a provorov trade it just doesn't seem feasible right now until they know what the league and PA are going to rule on the cap floor stuff. christiansen is still cheap and they need a forward – seems like they could work a deal around moving him for a pricier forward.

 

[majormajor]

Mateychuk looks good but I hope they are patient and start him in Cleveland.

He seems to be past that point in my opinion.

My development philosophy is that you put prospects in the AHL largely so they can develop in a situation where they're not the worst players on the ice, or where they are slightly better than most of the players around them. They'll get more touches and more confidence that way. Mateychuk looks like he's already going to have those advantages in the NHL with the puck on his stick, and possibly be one of our better players right now. Am I crazy for thinking Mateychuk is already at that point?

One thought on Christiansen. I think he looks NHL ready. I cannot imagine GMDW risking losing him for nothing by sending him back to Cleveland and passing him through waivers. For all the times we bitch about how shitty the organization has been at developing players, this is a player they handled correctly. Took their time with him and showed patience. To develop him correctly just to lose him through waivers seems negligent. I don't expect he will ever be more than a 3rd+ pairing guy but teams need reliable third pairing defenseman. Maybe there is a logjam now between JMFJ, Harris and Christiansen plus Mateychuk and Jiricek on the way but if we have learned anything...injuries happen and teams will use much more than seven to get through a season. I see this team carrying eight into the regular season while they figure things out (unless GMDW has the cojones to start Jiricek in Cleveland). Maybe GMDW is working the phones to trade a d-man.

Werenski - Mateychuk
Provorov - Severson
Harris/Christiansen - Gudbranson
#7:Harris/Christiansen
#8:JJ

Injuries will come soon, don't worry.

 

[ThirdPeriodTurtle]

Sadly I also read too much into the quotes and believe that they will start Jiricek over Mateychuk, when it should be the opposite. Mateychuk is a good all-around player while Jiricek shows flashes of offense but gets walked around too easily.

 

[GoJackets1]

He seems to be past that point in my opinion.

My development philosophy is that you put prospects in the AHL largely so they can develop in a situation where they're not the worst players on the ice, or where they are slightly better than most of the players around them. They'll get more touches and more confidence that way. Mateychuk looks like he's already going to have those advantages in the NHL with the puck on his stick, and possibly be one of our better players right now. Am I crazy for thinking Mateychuk is already at that point?



Werenski - Mateychuk
Provorov - Severson
Harris/Christiansen - Gudbranson
#7:Harris/Christiansen
#8:JJ

Injuries will come soon, don't worry.

I also think Mateychuk is probably already one of our better players. He looked essentially ready last preseason. Now he’s likely beyond that, as in ready to meaningfully contribute. Which, as has been talked about frequently on this board, is where guys should be before making the big club.

 

[CBJx614]

He seems to be past that point in my opinion.

My development philosophy is that you put prospects in the AHL largely so they can develop in a situation where they're not the worst players on the ice, or where they are slightly better than most of the players around them. They'll get more touches and more confidence that way. Mateychuk looks like he's already going to have those advantages in the NHL with the puck on his stick, and possibly be one of our better players right now. Am I crazy for thinking Mateychuk is already at that point?



Werenski - Mateychuk
Provorov - Severson
Harris/Christiansen - Gudbranson
#7:Harris/Christiansen
#8:JJ

Injuries will come soon, don't worry.

That's exactly where I'm at. Keep Jiricek in the AHL, if Mateychuk proves he's ready in the next few games, give him that spot until his play says otherwise.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

mateychuk is one of their four best defensemen right now and should start in the NHL, but with the numbers being what they are i think they'll either send him down for a little bit or carry 8 (or even 9) defensemen to start, given the forward numbers.

no way jiricek's going back down, as bad as many on this board want it. he didn't stand out against buffalo the same way mateychuk did against st. louis, but also… he was one of a few NHL guys on what was basically a junior-level roster, going against all of buffalo's stars.

jiricek's also been in their (nominal) top four all throughout camp and his name has been mentioned by evason as a potential power play guy. he'll be on the second pair.

harris and christiansen both look good, and they're not gonna waive jack after signing him. i wonder if they maybe try to accelerate a provorov deal (retain + bring back a bigger contract and net some picks) and embrace playing the kids.

 

[majormajor]

no way jiricek's going back down, as bad as many on this board want it. he didn't stand out against buffalo the same way mateychuk did against st. louis, but also… he was one of a few NHL guys on what was basically a junior-level roster, going against all of buffalo's stars.

jiricek's also been in their (nominal) top four all throughout camp and his name has been mentioned by evason as a potential power play guy. he'll be on the second pair.

He did stand out vs Buffalo, just not in the positive way.

I agree with you that they've already got Jiricek penciled in. But it's certainly not based on play. He hasn't looked even close to ready at any point, and I'm including his AHL play where he is one of the weaker players at 5v5. This is just the organization not having the confidence to go against draft pedigree and a very entitled prospect.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

He did stand out vs Buffalo, just not in the positive way.

I agree with you that they've already got Jiricek penciled in. But it's certainly not based on play. He hasn't looked even close to ready at any point, and I'm including his AHL play where he is one of the weaker players at 5v5.

i thought he was largely solid in game conditions that made it near-impossible for any cbj player to move the needle in a positive way. the only player who really held his own in that game imo was harris. i'm sure he'll look a lot better in future preseason action.

the data bears that out, btw.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1838410734218121668

positive value for on-ice defense. negative numbers for on-ice offense. seems pretty good overall given that it was a CBJ roster that had no business producing any kind of offense against a team of NHLers – not to mention that jiricek's individual offensive (and defensive) impact metrics were positive.

This is just the organization not having the confidence to go against draft pedigree and a very entitled prospect.

to be fair to the 'organization' (meaning the new guy in charge of hockey ops + new coach, in this instance), they inherited a relationship that the previous two guys (a GM who didn't communicate clearly to the player, and a coach who refused to use him) had utterly soured.

clearly the new coaching staff has an actual plan for the player beyond "give him 9 minutes a night and never use him on special teams" – to wit, he had nearly 7x as much power play time against buffalo (2:46) as he had during pascal vincent's entire tenure as head coach (0:25).

he also led the team in PK ice time in that buffalo game, going against their top NHL unit, and per the advanced stats performed well in those situations.

the new regime seems to believe that an extremely talented player will benefit from actually playing, getting into the flow of the game, and getting time on special teams units. based on last night, that approach sure looks to be working for kent johnson. jiricek should benefit as well.

 

[Monstershockey]

I am thinking Jiricek having all that special teams ice time had more to do with it being the first preseason game, and none of the higher up d-men played, than anything about the previous regime.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

I am thinking Jiricek having all that special teams ice time had more to do with it being the first preseason game, and none of the higher up d-men played, than anything about the previous regime.

it does, but evason has also said that jiricek will get power play time.

these preseason games are also a microcosm of the value of getting young guys into the flow of a game rather than letting them sit on the bench for extended periods of time.

pascal gave jiricek basically zero special teams ice time last year. even kent johnson didn't get much power play time, and zero PK time. then both guys would get benched for extended stretches when vincent would get scared of losing a lead, only for the team to cough it up anyway.

giving guys special teams time (i.e. kent on the PK) gets them into the game flow and gets them comfortable.

 

[Monstershockey]

it does, but evason has also said that jiricek will get power play time.

these preseason games are also a microcosm of the value of getting young guys into the flow of a game rather than letting them sit on the bench for extended periods of time.

pascal gave jiricek basically zero special teams ice time last year. even kent johnson didn't get much power play time, and zero PK time. then both guys would get benched for extended stretches when vincent would get scared of losing a lead, only for the team to cough it up anyway.

giving guys special teams time (i.e. kent on the PK) gets them into the game flow and gets them comfortable.

I guess it gets young guys into a flow, but preseason games aren't like regular season games. Really the main goal is to get out healthy and have the players build up their stamina a bit. I think most of the real work right now is during practice.

I really don't think Jiricek or KJ deserved special teams time as they had other parts of their games to straighten out first. Both should have spent more time in the AHL last year. Giving them more responsibility at the NHL level could have hurt their games more than help them.

Usually when you have late leads you go with guys you trust more than just throwing out a couple young guys to see what they could do. Vincent was let down by the guys he played, just as much as he failed at his job. The guys he did play late should have been able to hold on to leads. Hopefully they learned from last year and improve.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

I really don't think Jiricek or KJ deserved special teams time as they had other parts of their games to straighten out first. Both should have spent more time in the AHL last year. Giving them more responsibility at the NHL level could have hurt their games more than help them.

the very reason why AHL time is good for development is why both guys needed more defined roles + higher ice time last year in the NHL in my eyes.

it's really hard for young players to get used to NHL game speed when you're sitting on the bench for long stretches. combine that with a minimal number of shifts, and that leads to them overthinking and forcing things when they're out there, as they try to make the most of their ice time.

that's why the AHL is a good place for development – because skill guys can get acclimated to playing a faster + tougher game, and learn shift-to-shift how to make their game work within that environment.

the FO's initial decision (deciding they were both NHL players) may have been a poor one, but pascal's utter refusal to try to set them up for success was the bigger issue. young skill players simply have to be able to make mistakes in order to grow.

rather than letting them make mistakes, or giving them consistent roles, he tried to hide them away on the bench and instead ride sean kuraly and justin danforth to the eastern conference's worst record.

even brad larsen – a guy who embodies the peter principle – understood the assignment better than pascal did. that's why kent johnson looked awesome as a rookie, and patrik laine played the best hockey of his career in 22-23. with vincent, they looked like the two of the worst players in the league. even johnny had a career-worst season under vincent.

i'm not sure if it was fear or incompetence – or if it was a youth thing or simply a skill player thing – but pascal was simply not fit to coach last year's roster.

Vincent was let down by the guys he played, just as much as he failed at his job. The guys he did play late should have been able to hold on to leads. Hopefully they learned from last year and improve.

'the guys he played' in those situations – jenner, kuraly, danforth, provorov, gudbranson, severson and so on – were all basically getting double shifted for an entire third period every single night, and being told to simply rim the puck out and sprint to the bench for minutes at a time.

if they failed pascal vincent, it was a product of pascal's own choice to absolutely gas the hell out of those guys by playing them that much that late in a game. there were nights where kuraly and jenner in particular were playing 10+ minutes in the third period alone.

it's a recipe for failure, and the only thing on the menu in pascal's kitchen every night during his tenure here.

my expectation is that both jiricek and kj will thrive under dean evason, seeing as he is an actual honest-to-god NHL head coach who understands the value of learning mistakes and knows how to get a roster to be more than the sum of its parts.