Rumour, Trade & Free Agent Discussion

[Hunter368]

It’s a #12 pick. Pretty early.

Cirelli is a very good young player, Lowry is a good 4C making 2.9 million......pretty sure if the Bolts were going to make Cirelli available other teams would step up and beat that offer.......FYI that draft position isn’t necessarily finalized yet depending on how the season ends.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Cirelli is a very good young player, Lowry is a good 4C making 2.9 million......pretty sure if the Bolts were going to make Cirelli available other teams would step up and beat that offer.......FYI that draft position isn’t necessarily finalized yet depending on how the season ends.

I was only referring to you saying it was a late pick. I’m aware Cirelli would cost a lot more. If we really needed a 2c we would have to offer Connor or Ehlers +. With either of those players cap retained to make it work for the lightning.
Also they would be nuts not to do that as Connor is a 1st line player and they probably value Cirelli as a 2c. That would be a heck of a lot more than Farabee and Frost. Cirelli is better than Schenn.

 

[Hunter368]

I was only referring to you saying it was a late pick. I’m aware Cirelli would cost a lot more. If we really needed a 2c we would have to offer Connor or Ehlers +. With either of those players cap retained to make it work for the lightning.
Also they would be nuts not to do that as Connor is a 1st line player and they probably value Cirelli as a 2c. That would be a heck of a lot more than Farabee and Frost. Cirelli is better than Schenn.

Bolts can't take cap back, that's why they might have to trade him and the only reason to trade him. They handcuffed themselves with too many No move contracts clauses and now either some very good young players have to give the team a huge break at contract time or someone needs to be traded. Either way if they do trade him, they can't take contracts (of any significant value) back is the point. Bolts are hard up against the cap, will be interesting how it works out.

PS is the 12th OA is a mid range pick, but depending how the season ends it could get worse no one knows yet (not late though, 20+).

 

[Adam da bomb]

Bolts can't take cap back, that's why they might have to trade him and the only reason to trade him. They handcuffed themselves with too many No move contracts clauses and now either some very good young players have to give the team a huge break at contract time or someone needs to be traded. Either way if they do trade him, they can't take contracts (of any significant value) back is the point. Bolts are hard up against the cap, will be interesting how it works out.

PS is the 12th OA is a mid range pick, but depending how the season ends it could get worse no one knows yet (not late though, 20+).

So someone is going to be offering two high end prospects? I’d trade both our 1st this year and 2021 for him as well as any of our prospects. But don’t think Heinola or Samberg’s has the highest value. Well Heinola and next years first or Samberg’s and a 1st. Or 2 first.

 

[Hunter368]

So someone is going to be offering two high end prospects? I’d trade both our 1st this year and 2021 for him as well as any of our prospects. But don’t think Heinola or Samberg’s has the highest value. Well Heinola and next years first or Samberg’s and a 1st. Or 2 first.

A trade for him is likely heavy futures, possible with a cheap roster contract. Example: Lowry (50% retained), 1st & still a decent plus (pick/prospect) I suspect. Lowry at 50%retained helps them win the cup next year plus two nice futures (including a 1st). I'm not advocating doing it at this point, just speculating the cost.

I wonder how many would do Lowry @ 50%, 2020 1st & Jack/2nd Rd pick. Very expensive yes, but if it resolved our 2C issue for years to come.......might be interesting.

 

[BatVader]

A trade for him is likely heavy futures, possible with a cheap roster contract. Example: Lowry (50% retained), 1st & still a decent plus (pick/prospect) I suspect. Lowry at 50%retained helps them win the cup next year plus two nice futures (including a 1st). I'm not advocating doing it at this point, just speculating the cost.

I wonder how many would do Lowry @ 50%, 2020 1st & Jack/2nd Rd pick. Very expensive yes, but if it resolved our 2C issue for years to come.......might be interesting.

If that’s what it would take, I’d do that in a heartbeat.
A 2C is our biggest need and Cirelli is a good young one. Yes it would hurt to lose Jack, but to add a good young 2C, it would be worth while

 

[Adam da bomb]

A trade for him is likely heavy futures, possible with a cheap roster contract. Example: Lowry (50% retained), 1st & still a decent plus (pick/prospect) I suspect. Lowry at 50%retained helps them win the cup next year plus two nice futures (including a 1st). I'm not advocating doing it at this point, just speculating the cost.

I wonder how many would do Lowry @ 50%, 2020 1st & Jack/2nd Rd pick. Very expensive yes, but if it resolved our 2C issue for years to come.......might be interesting.

Easy yes. That’s quite cheap compared to quite I suggested of Heinola and a 1st. Samberg and a 1st or 2 1st. Copp is better than Lowry. Heck I’d give up Lowry retained, A 1st, jack and a second.

 

[Hunter368]

If that’s what it would take, I’d do that in a heartbeat.
A 2C is our biggest need and Cirelli is a good young one. Yes it would hurt to lose Jack, but to add a good young 2C, it would be worth while

Agreed, I would do it also........the problem is it's not about fair value it's about meeting the Bolts needs & outbidding the next closest team......as expensive as that package is to lose I'm not sure if it would get it done. Depends on what the Bolts want/like & how much other teams want him & are willing to pay.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Agreed, I would do it also........the problem is it's not about fair value it's about meeting the Bolts needs & outbidding the next closest team......as expensive as that package is to lose I'm not sure if it would get it done. Depends on what the Bolts want/like & how much other teams want him & are willing to pay.

I doubt it gets it done. If we are all willing to do it in a heartbeat. Trades usually feel like they hurt for both clubs. Jones for johansen both teams gave up something the fans were sore to lose. I’d upgrade Lowry to Copp. Ves, Heinola, Jack and a 1st I imagine would be closer.

 

[SM]

I doubt it gets it done. If we are all willing to do it in a heartbeat. Trades usually feel like they hurt for both clubs. Jones for johansen both teams gave up something the fans were sore to lose. I’d upgrade Lowry to Copp. Ves, Heinola, Jack and a 1st I imagine would be closer.

Sorry, a 1st, plus three of our most recent 1st rounders? Why not just OS at that point?

 

[Adam da bomb]

Sorry, a 1st, plus three of our most recent 1st rounders? Why not just OS at that point?

If it means we have our 2c
Csw
Ecl
As our top 6 looks pretty great.

our D is still
Mo demelo
Samberg pionk
Sbisa poolman
I don’t see Ves or Jack being in our top 6. That means we are really only losing Copp Heinola and the 31st pick as we win the cup. Totally worth it.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Pretty sure other teams can beat an offer of a late 1st and Lowry at 50%......IMO

#12 is not a late 1st. It is early middle. It is first half of the draft.

Of course other teams could beat that. You can say that about any offer anyone makes for any player.

Keeping in mind the cap situations of TBL and whichever other team you think might be in on Cirelli, who do you think would beat that? Any competing offers would need to be at least as cap friendly, if not more, so it is limited to picks, prospects and low cost players.

We could add to that offer. The add would be similarly limited to cap friendly assets. Add Niku. They need RD, not LD but he plays better on the right side. Add any prospect not named Samberg, Heinola, Berdin or Vesalainen. Add our 2nd. Or add any future pick you like.

This is something Chevy needs to be all in on. Most people are in favour of trading valuable assets for rentals to support a Cup run. The arithmetic of spending heavily to get a long term fix of a weakness is many times better. Spend as necessary to build a team that doesn't need rentals.

 

[surixon]

#12 is not a late 1st. It is early middle. It is first half of the draft.

Of course other teams could beat that. You can say that about any offer anyone makes for any player.

Keeping in mind the cap situations of TBL and whichever other team you think might be in on Cirelli, who do you think would beat that? Any competing offers would need to be at least as cap friendly, if not more, so it is limited to picks, prospects and low cost players.

We could add to that offer. The add would be similarly limited to cap friendly assets. Add Niku. They need RD, not LD but he plays better on the right side. Add any prospect not named Samberg, Heinola, Berdin or Vesalainen. Add our 2nd. Or add any future pick you like.

This is something Chevy needs to be all in on. Most people are in favour of trading valuable assets for rentals to support a Cup run. The arithmetic of spending heavily to get a long term fix of a weakness is many times better. Spend as necessary to build a team that doesn't need rentals.

Good post. I have to think that there won't be that many teams that will have the cap space to accommodate the Lightning.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I’d even tack a young player onto that. Niku would be preferred, but I doubt he moves the needle for Tampa.

I was thinking of Niku as the kicker. They have only 3 D men under contract for next year, plus 2 RFA's. Unfortunately the 3 under contract and 1 of the RFA's are all LHD. One of those under contract is 35 YO. That means they need D help, but they need RHD. That makes Niku less than ideal but he plays the right side better than the left. It is what he is accustomed to, so he should have some value for them. I can't guess how much.

Assuming we sign DeMelo, I wouldn't mind giving them Poolman. We can play a lefty on the 3rd pair. Maybe Kovacevic will be ready to step up. But I wouldn't do that without DeMelo signed.

 

[Hunter368]

#12 is not a late 1st. It is early middle. It is first half of the draft.

Of course other teams could beat that. You can say that about any offer anyone makes for any player.

Keeping in mind the cap situations of TBL and whichever other team you think might be in on Cirelli, who do you think would beat that? Any competing offers would need to be at least as cap friendly, if not more, so it is limited to picks, prospects and low cost players.

We could add to that offer. The add would be similarly limited to cap friendly assets. Add Niku. They need RD, not LD but he plays better on the right side. Add any prospect not named Samberg, Heinola, Berdin or Vesalainen. Add our 2nd. Or add any future pick you like.

This is something Chevy needs to be all in on. Most people are in favour of trading valuable assets for rentals to support a Cup run. The arithmetic of spending heavily to get a long term fix of a weakness is many times better. Spend as necessary to build a team that doesn't need rentals.

All those points already covered in posts after the one you quoted.

 

[Hunter368]

Good post. I have to think that there won't be that many teams that will have the cap space to accommodate the Lightning.

I don't see a trade of an older player from the Bolts happening b/c they all have no moves and doubtful they waive them to leave Tampa......so that really isn't a likely outcome IMO. I think either the young guys take a short 1-2 yr bridge doing the team a favour (like they have done in the past) or a young guy will be traded. So I don't see the subject of other teams accommodating the Bolts cap wise as even a likely subject. IMO

 

[surixon]

I don't see a trade of an older player from the Bolts happening b/c they all have no moves and doubtful they waive them to leave Tampa......so that really isn't a likely outcome IMO. I think either the young guys take a short 1-2 yr bridge doing the team a favour (like they have done in the past) or a young guy will be traded. So I don't see the subject of other teams accommodating the Bolts cap wise as even a likely subject. IMO

That is a possibility but even with bridge deals they likely can't fit everyone. They really have little if any space to work with. They will have a lot of positions to fill on defense as well.

 

[BatVader]

I was thinking of Niku as the kicker. They have only 3 D men under contract for next year, plus 2 RFA's. Unfortunately the 3 under contract and 1 of the RFA's are all LHD. One of those under contract is 35 YO. That means they need D help, but they need RHD. That makes Niku less than ideal but he plays the right side better than the left. It is what he is accustomed to, so he should have some value for them. I can't guess how much.

Assuming we sign DeMelo, I wouldn't mind giving them Poolman. We can play a lefty on the 3rd pair. Maybe Kovacevic will be ready to step up. But I wouldn't do that without DeMelo signed.

Or we could sign a cheap RHD vet for that bottom pair and keep Beaulieu.
Lots of options and possibilities

 

[Whileee]

I don't see a trade of an older player from the Bolts happening b/c they all have no moves and doubtful they waive them to leave Tampa......so that really isn't a likely outcome IMO. I think either the young guys take a short 1-2 yr bridge doing the team a favour (like they have done in the past) or a young guy will be traded. So I don't see the subject of other teams accommodating the Bolts cap wise as even a likely subject. IMO

They can trade Killorn, and likely will, but they'll still have a very tight cap situation and will have a very tough time signing Cirelli and Sergachev unless they take huge discounts.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think it's the most realistic approach, unless they can snag Cirelli somehow. That seems doubtful.

I also think there's a chance that the Jets move Wheeler back to C, or give Roslovic a more substantial run at C. They might need to get creative...

Copp-Scheifele-Laine
Connor-Wheeler-Ehlers
Perreault-Little-Roslovic
Harkins-Lowry-Appleton

or maybe

Connor-Scheifele-Wheeler
Ehlers-Roslovic-Laine
Copp-Lowry-Appleton
Harkins

or

Connor-Scheifele-Laine
Ehlers-Roslovic-Wheeler
Copp-Little-Appleton
etc.

If we can't acquire a 2C somewhere I see it as a choice between Little and Wheeler there. Little started last year playing better than he had recently. Only 7 games, but looking promising. If he can pick up where he left off, he would clearly be the best option. I'm not confident of that but time will tell.

Connor - Scheifele - Laine
Ehlers - Little - Wheeler
Harkins - Roslovic - Appleton
Copp - Lowry - Perreault

If Little isn't up to the job and we have to go with Wheeler we have Laine, Roslovic, Appleton and Little at RW. Playing Ehlers at RW is also an option but it shouldn't be necessary as long as we are healthy. If we have injuries that lead to playing Ehlers on the right side, I would look to moving Harkins up to fill the spot on LW.

Connor - Scheifele - Laine
Ehlers - Wheeler - Little/Roslovic
Harkins - Roslovic/Little - Appleton
Copp - Lowry - Perreault

I like it a lot better with Cirelli at 2C though.

Connor - Scheifele - Laine
Ehlers - Cirelli - Wheeler
Harkins - Roslovic - Appleton
Perreault - Copp - Little

Those bottom 6 lines could be 3a and 3b. For that matter, swap Laine and Wheeler and we could have 1a and 1b too.

 

[surixon]

Or we could sign a cheap RHD vet for that bottom pair and keep Beaulieu.
Lots of options and possibilities

Jets will have to sign a cheaper vet dmen to a two year deal to expose in the expansion draft.

 

[Hunter368]

They can trade Killorn, and likely will, but they'll still have a very tight cap situation and will have a very tough time signing Cirelli and Sergachev unless they take huge discounts.

That’s what I said.....young guys will have to do the team a favour like the team has convinced players to do in the past via short term low cap hit deals. Bolts have been very successful using them in the past.....that’s not a guarantee they will this summer but they done it many times in the past and have a lot of things going for them that players like. Time will tell......I’m just saying assuming the Bolts are screwed and that we’re going to steal Cirelli dirt cheap is highly unlikely to happen.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Cirelli is a very good young player, Lowry is a good 4C making 2.9 million......pretty sure if the Bolts were going to make Cirelli available other teams would step up and beat that offer.......FYI that draft position isn’t necessarily finalized yet depending on how the season ends.

True the draft position isn't finalized. It is currently #12 and not likely to change - though it is still possible. For discussion purposes right now, it makes a lot more sense to call it #12 than it does to call it a late 1st.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I was only referring to you saying it was a late pick. I’m aware Cirelli would cost a lot more. If we really needed a 2c we would have to offer Connor or Ehlers +. With either of those players cap retained to make it work for the lightning.
Also they would be nuts not to do that as Connor is a 1st line player and they probably value Cirelli as a 2c. That would be a heck of a lot more than Farabee and Frost. Cirelli is better than Schenn.

Either Connor or Ehlers is worth more than Cirelli, or at least they are more than I would offer. But neither could fit TBL for cost. We can't retain more than 50%. There is no way I would retain salary on either of them, considering the remaining terms.

 

[Hunter368]

True the draft position isn't finalized. It is currently #12 and not likely to change - though it is still possible. For discussion purposes right now, it makes a lot more sense to call it #12 than it does to call it a late 1st.

The post you liked.....I akowledged it is a mid ranged pick.....not late.