Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[TageGod]

You're treating Buffalo like they have been a top scoring team for years. They had one good year of scoring, with many players having career years at once. They are showing themselves to be exactly what they have been for years, and that's a below average scoring team.

One could say they have never really knew how to play hockey in the first place, as in having a complete game where they had to participate on the defensive side of the game as well.

To go from career years to crap players, the real player is likely in between.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

With Hanifin, at least they could work out an extension before a deal (for the record, I do not want Hanifin and his upcoming new contract), whereas Chychrun was always going to be a huge gamble for any small market team to take.

Most of us wanted Chychrun as a rental, so there's really no risk there. If you don't make the playoffs, you just sell him at the deadline like Ottawa is going to do. If you do make the playoffs, it was worth the cost.

Despite your yearlong argument against acquiring Chyschrun, it would actually have been the right move to make to add some experience to the backend without having to commit. The asset cost would be worth it...we aren't getting much for our army of small wingers anyway.

This team only recently actually plays defense. You watch, they will be fighting for a playoff spot.

Yes, they will. In 2027.

 

[Dirty Dog]

KA’s lack of activity has dodged a lot of mines that this board wanted. But it’s also gotten us stagnant and has wasted this year…so lose-lose

 

[Duddy]

Get talent that can play, get better, keep talent that can play because you can win as a team.
Waiting is never the right strategy, unless you just started your rebuild. And we're way past that.

 

[OkimLom]

To go from career years to crap players, the real player is likely in between.

They're not even crap players. They have talent, it's just there isn't a quality support system implemented that is able to hide their weaknesses or lowers the risk of their growing pains to impact the play on the ice at consistent level. They are going against a large number of teams that have better systems that provide that support, which improves the chances of the individual talent having greater impacts on the ice. It's why some teams that have lesser talent but have guys that buy in are competitive on a nightly basis and why Buffalo can look bad those nights, but at times look like equals to a team like Toronto (where those games are pure talent vs talent, with poor team structures)

 

[Chainshot]

Being a rush team is easier than being a team that establishes cycle and makes plays to the front of the net from being in the offensive zone. They remain all sizzle.

 

[toddkaz]

Of course it can't be proven.

But, what is more important to you? Your family or people you went to HS with?

If it's not your family, I feel sorry for you.

Considering during the draft Chychrun said he would love to play for Buffalo because of Pegula I would say I would be more right and you wrong.

You mean Chychrun's family can't hang out with Pegs and the hockey games? They lived beside each other.

Do you think Pegula will ban Chychrun's family from the games?

I feel sorry for you if you think its just either or and cant be both.

 

[TageGod]

They're not even crap players. They have talent, it's just there isn't a quality support system implemented that is able to hide their weaknesses or lowers the risk of their growing pains to impact the play on the ice at consistent level. They are going against a large number of teams that have better systems that provide that support, which improves the chances of the individual talent having greater impacts on the ice. It's why some teams that have lesser talent but have guys that buy in are competitive on a nightly basis and why Buffalo can look bad those nights, but at times look like equals to a team like Toronto (where those games are pure talent vs talent, with poor team structures)

Idk how you can watch this team excel against top teams in the NHL playing great hockey and say, "the system sucks". That is such a lazy answer. Systems don't tell you to make bad passes in the neutral zone or fail to dump the puck deep when you can't get the line. Systems don't tell you to shoot the puck into a defender or not to go to the net. The PLAYERS are not performing. No system can cover up for the mistakes this team makes.

 

[Fezzy126]

Idk how you can watch this team excel against top teams in the NHL playing great hockey and say, "the system sucks". That is such a lazy answer. Systems don't tell you to make bad passes in the neutral zone or fail to dump the puck deep when you can't get the line. Systems don't tell you to shoot the puck into a defender or not to go to the net. The PLAYERS are not performing. No system can cover up for the mistakes this team makes.

I even think this is too broad a statement. The whole "everyone had career years" argument that continuously gets thrown around is so lazy. I did a quick check, and the majority of our players are scoring at or near career rates, here's their 5v5 scoring rates over the last 3 years from left to right, with the right most column being this year:

The biggest variances from last year are Tage and Cozens, and to a lesser extent the checking line of Girgs/Krebs/KO. both had slow starts and Tage has been fighting injuries more recently. Despite the variances, our team's 5v5 performance has actually improved since last year:

Despite a slight downtick in scoring, our goal and expected goal differentials have actually improved, so one could argue that the coaches shift to a slightly more defensive focus has shown improvement (we're also still sitting at 11th in 5v5 GF/60, so we're still in the top half of the league in scoring).

The biggest culprit remains the special teams. Last year we were a +4 in total special teams goal differential - factoring in all PPG, PK Goals, and Shorties, both for and against. This year we're a -14 so far. If we get PP scoring back up it would solve A LOT of issues.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I even think this is too broad a statement. The whole "everyone had career years" argument that continuously gets thrown around is so lazy. I did a quick check, and the majority of our players are scoring at or near career rates, here's their 5v5 scoring rates over the last 3 years from left to right, with the right most column being this year:

View attachment 805610

The biggest variances from last year are Tage and Cozens, and to a lesser extent the checking line of Girgs/Krebs/KO. both had slow starts and Tage has been fighting injuries more recently. Despite the variances, our team's 5v5 performance has actually improved since last year:

View attachment 805614

Despite a slight downtick in scoring, our goal and expected goal differentials have actually improved, so one could argue that the coaches shift to a slightly more defensive focus has shown improvement (we're also still sitting at 11th in 5v5 GF/60, so we're still in the top half of the league in scoring).

The biggest culprit remains the special teams. Last year we were a +4 in total special teams goal differential - factoring in all PPG, PK Goals, and Shorties, both for and against. This year we're a -14 so far. If we get PP scoring back up it would solve A LOT of issues.

Playing "as good" as they did last year isn't the compliment you think it is. They sucked last year and missed the playoffs. Fans of other teams would expect improvement.

Every other team in the Division and Conference got better, outside of the ones who are rebuilding. Buffalo has the same ES stats and much worse special teams stats and that's supposed to be a good thing?

 

[MOGlLNY]

KA’s lack of activity has dodged a lot of mines that this board wanted. But it’s also gotten us stagnant and has wasted this year…so lose-lose

Funny, isn’t it? A lot of us wanted to act like the Senators have and a lot of Senators fans wanted to be more like us.

Turns out neither worked!

 

[Ace]

Guess what team has the most cap space in the league again?

Mission accomplished!

 

[Jim Bob]

Considering during the draft Chychrun said he would love to play for Buffalo because of Pegula I would say I would be more right and you wrong.

You mean Chychrun's family can't hang out with Pegs and the hockey games? They lived beside each other.

Do you think Pegula will ban Chychrun's family from the games?

I feel sorry for you if you think its just either or and cant be both.

His grandpa lives in Ottawa and Chychrun is going to be able to spend a lot more time with him playing in Ottawa than in Buffalo. That is a fact.

And the Pegulas living in Florida, where Chychrun grew up, will not be around him a ton in Buffalo.

It's just really weird to me that you are trying to argue that playing in Buffalo for the Pegulas would be more meaningful than playing in Ottawa where his grandparents and other family members live.

 

[Fezzy126]

Playing "as good" as they did last year isn't the compliment you think it is. They sucked last year and missed the playoffs. Fans of other teams would expect improvement.

Every other team in the Division and Conference got better, outside of the ones who are rebuilding. Buffalo has the same ES stats and much worse special teams stats and that's supposed to be a good thing?

You missed my overall point:

The hyperbole around the statement that "everyone had career years and has now predictably regressed" continually gets thrown around and is factually incorrect.

I was never complimenting them as you're suggesting.

 

[Ace]

KA’s lack of activity has dodged a lot of mines that this board wanted. But it’s also gotten us stagnant and has wasted this year…so lose-lose

I don’t even know where to begin with how flawed this is. Something not working in one place doesn’t have any bearing on it working somewhere else. Are you saying that every single thing you thought was a bad move…those players will never be a good fit anywhere? Or do you understand that isnt the case?

All not doing anything has done is deliver the exact expected result while keeping Adams in a state of waiting to be judged. I was promised by everyone on this board that last year was a year off because this was when Adams would make his moves. He didn’t. Now what? This year doesn’t count either and he’s bought himself another try at actually building a roster. A FIFTH OFF-SEASON upcoming despite zero signs anything is heading anywhere.

But he’s cut that payroll down again. A franchise bought for 189 million now valued at 900 spending the least in the league…again….under the guise of money “lost”

It’s not changing when the guy in charge demands no changes. And his yes man is there to shake his head in agreement like the world‘s least qualified bobblehead.

 

[K8fool]

Funny, isn’t it? A lot of us wanted to act like the Senators have and a lot of Senators fans wanted to be more like us.

Turns out neither worked!

We are better off than senators w guys that can grow and self reflect and say fook it w their bodies and sell out nightly to create a different identity, amongst other improvements. Senators are just mercs w way less likelihood of becoming more w passion for the group as many are not honorable and hard to follow .
The league loves scumbag captains thiught. Nyr vegas etc

 

[Irie]

The asset cost would be worth it...we aren't getting much for our army of small wingers anyway.

With 20-20 hindsight I have a difficult time seeing the justification here.

Chychrun's on ice contributions will never amount to Benson Kulich/Savoie + in value. Ottawa is going to sell JC at a reduced cost due to him being a One year rental now. The chances the Sabres would have a better roster going forward if they made that deal is highly unlikely imo.

While I agree some moves need to be made, I am still a firm believer that Chychrun was never the wise move for this team. Buffalo has to stay out of bidding wars for short term contracts right now. There is an air if desperation for a move to maybe change the team's luck. The correct move would be a coaching change, not a bad buy trade.

 

[Chainshot]

Idk how you can watch this team excel against top teams in the NHL playing great hockey and say, "the system sucks". That is such a lazy answer. Systems don't tell you to make bad passes in the neutral zone or fail to dump the puck deep when you can't get the line. Systems don't tell you to shoot the puck into a defender or not to go to the net. The PLAYERS are not performing. No system can cover up for the mistakes this team makes.

The lazy is in how they approach the non-top level teams - that's on inexperience in part and certainly the players are the root cause. Getting more out of them is the job of the coaching staff. Moving some of them who can't be bothered to show up for less-than teams is the job of the GM. All three need a kick in the proverbial ass.

 

[Chainshot]

With 20-20 hindsight I have a difficult time seeing the justification here.

Chychrun's on ice contributions will never amount to Benson Kulich/Savoie + in value. Ottawa is going to sell JC at a reduced cost due to him being a One year rental now. The chances the Sabres would have a better roster going forward if they made that deal is highly unlikely imo.

While I agree some moves need to be made, I am still a firm believer that Chychrun was never the wise move for this team. Buffalo has to stay out of bidding wars for short term contracts right now. There is an air if desperation for a move to maybe change the team's luck. The correct move would be a coaching change, not a bad buy trade.

I would also like to think they could see a bump by plucking someone out of another organization to put into a role they don't seem to have well covered. Vegas has done a couple of those - the Nic Roy deal from Carolina got them a viable 3/4 C, or how Colorado fleeced the Islanders for Toews at the expense of a couple of draft picks. Finding that sort of value rather than chasing a pending UFA type or worse, signing the UFA guy above market rate, is a missing for this team. Same with finding the Goodrow or Coleman types before they become the type of player who gets overpaid in UFA or over-priced in trade - get to it.

There is so much comment from Adams about not putting players in the way of the prospects, yet they have to get to the roster building now instead of just remaining a clearing house for prospects. This is where the hard decisions on who stays, who goes, and most importantly, who comes in are going to be needed.

 

[Sabresbyswords104]

What is the main reason sabres arent winning?

They have talent But what lines/players are the reasons they cant make it ?

or is it just coaching?

 

[Zman5778]

What is the main reason sabres arent winning?

They have talent But what lines/players are the reasons they cant make it ?

or is it just coaching?

There isn't one main reason, and that's bearing out in the completely unpredictable nature of the results we get.

In absolutely no order of importance:

1.) Our better talents not always playing well
2.) Our lack of commitment to team defense
3.) Goaltending inexperience
4.) Lack of commitment to getting to the front of the net in the offensive zone
5.) Brain-dead decisions by some defensemen
6.) Our apparently lack of any sort of system/structure -- offensively OR defensively
7.) Our PP has been utter shit most games
8.) Our PK takes games off
9.) Forward injuries out the ass
10.) The general youth and inexperience of our team

And even in those reasons, there are multiple elements. And some of the reasons listed above are interconnected.

When a team looks like the worst team in the league some nights, a mediocre team some nights.....and then goes out and consistently competes with and beats some of the best teams in the league...........there's never ONE reason.

 

[Irie]

What is the main reason sabres arent winning?

They have talent But what lines/players are the reasons they cant make it ?

or is it just coaching?

In my view, the problem lies in that Granato is asking his team to play one way, and this roster is ill equipped to play that style.

If you want to have a modicum of success in this league playing a style that prioritizes compete level over Xs and Os, then your roster better be loaded with a lot of high-compete muckers and grinders.

Also with that gameplan, you are relying extra heavily on the success of your Powerplay, so you need to have a well executing highly dynamic PP to give you an edge, which is sorta the polar opposite of what this team has going for it.

 

[KeyserSoze81]

What is the main reason sabres arent winning?

They have talent But what lines/players are the reasons they cant make it ?

or is it just coaching?

Unbalanced lineup, lack of experience, players who have grown up in a losing atmosphere, poor coaching (specifically special teams), lack of addressing gaping holes in the roster, and presumably karma for the Pegula's fracking empire.

They assembled a bunch of talented offensive players who are very similar in skillset. None of their core 4 players (Thompson, Cozens, Dahlin, and Power) are defensively sound. The veterans on the team played on non competitive teams for most of their careers. The coaching staff chose not to implement much defensive structure for multiple years. There is little accountability throughout the organization.

They need a seismic shift.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

There isn't one main reason, and that's bearing out in the completely unpredictable nature of the results we get.

In absolutely no order of importance:

1.) Our better talents not always playing well
2.) Our lack of commitment to team defense
3.) Goaltending inexperience
4.) Lack of commitment to getting to the front of the net in the offensive zone
5.) Brain-dead decisions by some defensemen
6.) Our apparently lack of any sort of system/structure -- offensively OR defensively
7.) Our PP has been utter shit most games
8.) Our PK takes games off
9.) Forward injuries out the ass
10.) The general youth and inexperience of our team

And even in those reasons, there are multiple elements. And some of the reasons listed above are interconnected.

When a team looks like the worst team in the league some nights, a mediocre team some nights.....and then goes out and consistently competes with and beats some of the best teams in the league...........there's never ONE reason.

This all falls into one bullet point for me: youngest team in the league.

The idea that you can have 100 fewer years of collective experience than other teams and still be competitive is insane.

It'll take about two or three more years until we have a team of average aged players, and that's when I expect that this team will start getting good.

 

[Chainshot]

This all falls into one bullet point for me: youngest team in the league.

The idea that you can have 100 fewer years of collective experience than other teams and still be competitive is insane.

It'll take about two or three more years until we have a team of average aged players, and that's when I expect that this team will start getting good.

Yep. There is one defenseman on this team over 28 and that's EJ who is playing the least of any of their defensemen. Look at contenders - actual contenders - and the bluelines are far more experienced both for their top minute guys and their depth. Just one player isn't going to alter that. Similarly, they rely upon the couple of vets they have in a checking role (Girgensons, Okposo) when other teams have far more available candidates. It's refreshing to see some younger legs working into PKing roles (Quinn in particular), but they're still so very inexperienced seemingly everywhere.

------------------------------------------
(Not to your point, just circling back to the comments about Chychrun above.)

It's interesting to see Chychrun actually has some very good underlying stuff for the Sens, even with their poor coaching and distribution of under-performing forward talent. He's going to get paid and that seems inevitable. Buffalo needs to pump up their pro scouting to turn out their version of a Siegenthaler trade or find their version of Marino coming out of the college ranks but not being willing to sign with his drafting team. Or some sort of Whitecloud or Malinski UDFA to give them economy and the missing sort of stoutness in their blueline that's missing currently.