Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[BFLO]

And replacing Okposo or Girgensons with a guy like Hathaway is unlikely to have made things better, either.

The issues with this roster are bigger than who is playing on the 4th line.


I think the much bigger issue that who is on the 4th line were things like who was replacing Quinn until he was back, who is Power's D partner, and who is the #1 goalie.

IMO, those were the hard decisions that Adams punted on during the offseason that had a much bigger negative impact on the team's results than punting on replacing the 4th line veteran leaders.

I agree that the issues on the roster are much bigger than who is playing on the 4th line.

I think heading into the offseason, that most of us agreed that Goalie, Top 4 RHD and remaking the bottom 6 were the obvious roster moves that Adams needed to make. And yet he did none of those.

I agree that if the only difference to the roster over what we actually got is Hathaway over Okposo it's not a big enough change to make things better.

Adams had like 5 or 6 roster moves he should have made, this being just one of them, and he made 0. Hathaway over Okposo is like the low hanging fruit, and Adams didn't even pick that, let alone the more difficult to reach stuff like goalie or top 4 rhd.

You completely missed the point.

32 year old Hathaway is not 28 year old Hathaway any longer. He is not a player that makes a difference on Buffalo's PK. (I am sure I am going to see a chart of Hathaway's metrics any minute now playing in Torts' system compared to Okposo's metrics playing in Granato's ) If you watched him play this year, you would know where I am coming from.

Yes, the Okposo signing and the Jost Signing were atrocious. I said so when they were inked. This discussion is not about Adams, that is why there is an Adams thread.

The point is that players available now for late round picks are not really going to be the solution.

I will give you that Hathaway would add some Snarl that this team sorely lacks, but at 32 and on the decline, I don't think the rest of his game is good enough any more to be an answer here.

I think my above response to Jim Bob is mostly applicable in response to you too.

To the bolded: This is the roster thread. Adams is responsible for the roster. Can't talk about the roster without some overlap of talking about the guy who is responsible for the roster.

 

[TehDoak]

A quick thought:

If you are serious about saving the season, the best chance is probably a dice roll on Merzlikins. Riding a hot goalie for an extended streak is probably the only thing that could potentially work. It might fail, but if it does, you are in the same spot you are now. You simply have to be willing to buy him out if he goes south. He's a clear upgrade on Comrie. It also lets you send Levi to Rochester. Let him and UPL battle it out for the starter spot.

If he sucks, you can either retain or straight out buy him out in a year or two.

Not sure what else you can reasonably do at this point that doesn't risk a top 5 draft pick.

​

 

[StrompTroller]

A quick thought:

If you are serious about saving the season, the best chance is probably a dice roll on Merzlikins. Riding a hot goalie for an extended streak is probably the only thing that could potentially work. It might fail, but if it does, you are in the same spot you are now. You simply have to be willing to buy him out if he goes south. He's a clear upgrade on Comrie. It also lets you send Levi to Rochester. Let him and UPL battle it out for the starter spot.

If he sucks, you can either retain or straight out buy him out in a year or two.

Not sure what else you can reasonably do at this point that doesn't risk a top 5 draft pick.

​

Boy won't that be a fun discussion on here...who can we buy out first...skinner or Merz lol. Good grief. Buy out both the same year and have so much dead space we can't re-sign quinn and we lose him over the hail mary Merz throw....seems Buffalo-esque though so I'm down.

 

[TehDoak]

Boy won't that be a fun discussion on here...who can we buy out first...skinner or Merz lol. Good grief. Buy out both the same year and have so much dead space we can't re-sign quinn and we lose him over the hail mary Merz throw....seems Buffalo-esque though so I'm down.

It would be a complete hail mary at this point.

But...the other option is praying UPL or Levi suddenly runs super hot for an extended period.

At least with Merz we've seen that kind of performance before.

 

[StrompTroller]

It would be a complete hail mary at this point.

But...the other option is praying UPL or Levi suddenly runs super hot for an extended period.

At least with Merz we've seen that kind of performance before.

we could trade for 2 goalies and see if someone sells a 7 person tandem bike for our goalies under contract to race our coaches still under contract....

 

[Irie]

A quick thought:

If you are serious about saving the season, the best chance is probably a dice roll on Merzlikins. Riding a hot goalie for an extended streak is probably the only thing that could potentially work. It might fail, but if it does, you are in the same spot you are now. You simply have to be willing to buy him out if he goes south. He's a clear upgrade on Comrie. It also lets you send Levi to Rochester. Let him and UPL battle it out for the starter spot.

If he sucks, you can either retain or straight out buy him out in a year or two.

Not sure what else you can reasonably do at this point that doesn't risk a top 5 draft pick.

​

A tandem of prime Patrick Roy and Martin Brodeur couldn't save this season without a coaching change to change the way the team plays in front of it's goalies.

 

[StrompTroller]

A tandem of prime Patrick Roy and Martin Brodeur couldn't save this season without a coaching change to change the way the team plays in front of it's goalies.

yessir, The time to get a goalie has passed. Now its time to let UPL and Levi take their lumps, learn and kiss the season goodbye and run em back again next year, hey at least comrie would be convoluting things....

 

[Irie]

I agree that the issues on the roster are much bigger than who is playing on the 4th line.

I think heading into the offseason, that most of us agreed that Goalie, Top 4 RHD and remaking the bottom 6 were the obvious roster moves that Adams needed to make. And yet he did none of those.

I agree that if the only difference to the roster over what we actually got is Hathaway over Okposo it's not a big enough change to make things better.

Adams had like 5 or 6 roster moves he should have made, this being just one of them, and he made 0. Hathaway over Okposo is like the low hanging fruit, and Adams didn't even pick that, let alone the more difficult to reach stuff like goalie or top 4 rhd.

I think my above response to Jim Bob is mostly applicable in response to you too.

To the bolded: This is the roster thread. Adams is responsible for the roster. Can't talk about the roster without some overlap of talking about the guy who is responsible for the roster.

Do you honestly believe that adding a #4 defensman and replacing Okposo with a Hathaway and bringing in another average goalie would make any difference in how much this team puck chases? How often they are caught out of position? How the entire team misses assignments every single shift? How there is almost zero communication in the D zone? Or the way they completely lack transitional chemistry up and down the lineup?

This Narrative is misguided. This team plays crappy team hockey. Jokiharju or Erik Johnson or Girgensons or Okposo are not the reason this team looks like shit on the ice most nights. You bring in another average goalie and they are going to look disturbingly similar to Comrie behind this team.

You want to blame Adams for something, blame him for not seeing the blindingly obvious fact that his coaching staff has a game plan that is incapable of producing consistent results in the NHL. Until he addresses that, any other move won't change a thing.

 

[BFLO]

Do you honestly believe that adding a #4 defensman and replacing Okposo with a Hathaway and bringing in another average goalie would make any difference in how much this team puck chases? How often they are caught out of position? How the entire team misses assignments every single shift? How there is almost zero communication in the D zone? Or the way they completely lack transitional chemistry up and down the lineup?

This Narrative is misguided. This team plays crappy team hockey. Jokiharju or Erik Johnson or Girgensons or Okposo are not the reason this team looks like shit on the ice most nights. You bring in another average goalie and they are going to look disturbingly similar to Comrie behind this team.

You want to blame Adams for something, blame him for not seeing the blindingly obvious fact that his coaching staff has a game plan that is incapable of producing consistent results in the NHL. Until he addresses that, any other move won't change a thing.

Complaining about coaching in the roster thread after trying to call me out for complaining about the roster moves the GM didn't make in the roster thread. Have you no shame sir?

Do I think that improving the roster would make a difference? Yes.
Do I think we need new coaches? Also yes.

 

[Irie]

Complaining about coaching in the roster thread after trying to call me out for complaining about the roster moves the GM didn't make in the roster thread. Have you no shame sir?

Do I think that improving the roster would make a difference? Yes.
Do I think we need new coaches? Also yes.

Touché

But I didn't go into details and climb on my soapbox to make a diatribe I have posted dozens of times before with specific points about the coaching staff.

The roster is not built well. Adams seems to be providing players to Granato that Granato is requesting. I blame them both for this unbalanced mess, and I believe granato convinced Adams he could build a competitive team with a fullblown play the kids youth movement, and Adams went all in.

The reality is that Okposo was brought back for leadership alone. He was overpaid out of loyalty, both decisions are poor GM moves. Okposo is a terrible team captain. I made the claim he was a bad choice in the captain thread years ago and received a lot of irrational hate for my position. Kyle is a good calming vet presence and a great team dad, but he doesn't have the fire to get the guys juiced in the room before games and they come out flat more often than not. He is not the leadership solution this team needed then and is a waste of cap now, but... He is still the adult in the room, along with Girgensons, Tuch and Thompson, (all the guys that ditched the media after the CBJ debacle proved that point.)

As for improving the roster, I agree it needs changes, but I am pragmatic about the prices and realistic in the sense that getting the guys that this team needs (strong defensive players with leadership skills that are good in the dressingroom) to replace KO and Girgensons is a mighty tall task. Those players just are not available... Ever. You have to grow them or totally luck into them if you are a small market team like Buffalo.

Giving up a ton for a #4 D that will likely leave in a year or two is also a bad move right now.

I am a strong believer that if you fix the coaching the other parts will fall into place. Solutions often come from very unlikely sources, but they do come.

 

[Chainshot]

Hey, with multiple injured defensemen, I'm sure we're all excited for the potential return of Bryson or Stillman...

 

[Vito_81]

Hey, with multiple injured defensemen, I'm sure we're all excited for the potential return of Bryson or Stillman...

I’ll take Girgensons on D for a full gane instead of Bryson.

 

[NotABadPeriod]

Hey, with multiple injured defensemen, I'm sure we're all excited for the potential return of Bryson or Stillman...

How is Novikov looking? I imagine not ready for a callup...but that would at least be exciting instead of the known quantities.

 

[slip]

Time to shake up the lines:

Peterka/Thompson/Tuch
Benson/Mitts/Quinn
Girgensons/Cozens/Greenway
Robinson/Krebs/Okposo

Keeping Mitts and Thompson on same line has reduced us to really one line that can score. Also this ain’t last year’s kid line — break’em up. My only reservation is bumping JJ to first because he really doesn’t deserve it, but I really want to see what Mitts can do for Quinn and Benson offensively. Cozens down to third line to focus on basic, simple hockey because the offense just ain’t there for him so stop forcing it.

 

[OkimLom]

Time to shake up the lines:

Peterka/Thompson/Tuch
Benson/Mitts/Quinn
Girgensons/Cozens/Greenway
Robinson/Krebs/Okposo

Keeping Mitts and Thompson on same line has reduced us to really one line that can score. Also this ain’t last year’s kid line — break’em up. My only reservation is bumping JJ to first because he really doesn’t deserve it, but I really want to see what Mitts can do for Quinn and Benson offensively. Cozens down to third line to focus on basic, simple hockey because the offense just ain’t there for him so stop forcing it.

I’d do:

Quinn-Thompson-Tuch
Benson-Greenway-Peterka
Cozens-Mittelstadt-Girgensons/Robinson
Robinson/Girgs-Krebs-Okposo/VO

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

I hear what you’re saying, but honestly, is Greenway-Girgensons-Okposo really that bad? To me that’s a pretty solid 4th line. And the top-9 is filled out too. Replace Olofsson with Kulich next year and I like the forward lines.

I swear looking at your roster on paper the biggest hole is #3D. Maybe the coaching/ system is a bigger issue, but adding a puck moving d would do wonders at both ends of the ice imo. If Poser could find his groove and the second pair becomes a strength it will have a big impact. Then, once you address that and have playoff caliber d you can start upgrading the bottom-6. And I don’t think you need the Coleman’s that cost a 1st. I think a Jake Evans from MTL for example would be a fantastic fit. Maybe Parker Kelly from Ottawa.

Then, if you’re still not having success, you consider flipping one of the higher-paid forwards and a blue-chip prospect or two for an upgrade.

All-time great Freudian typo by our Flames fan visitor.

Edit: FTR, I'm a Power fan. We're expecting too much too soon from him, but I understand the impatience, given his draft pedigree and extension.

 

[Matt Ress]

Touché

But I didn't go into details and climb on my soapbox to make a diatribe I have posted dozens of times before with specific points about the coaching staff.

The roster is not built well. Adams seems to be providing players to Granato that Granato is requesting. I blame them both for this unbalanced mess, and I believe granato convinced Adams he could build a competitive team with a fullblown play the kids youth movement, and Adams went all in.

The reality is that Okposo was brought back for leadership alone. He was overpaid out of loyalty, both decisions are poor GM moves. Okposo is a terrible team captain. I made the claim he was a bad choice in the captain thread years ago and received a lot of irrational hate for my position. Kyle is a good calming vet presence and a great team dad, but he doesn't have the fire to get the guys juiced in the room before games and they come out flat more often than not. He is not the leadership solution this team needed then and is a waste of cap now, but... He is still the adult in the room, along with Girgensons, Tuch and Thompson, (all the guys that ditched the media after the CBJ debacle proved that point.)

As for improving the roster, I agree it needs changes, but I am pragmatic about the prices and realistic in the sense that getting the guys that this team needs (strong defensive players with leadership skills that are good in the dressingroom) to replace KO and Girgensons is a mighty tall task. Those players just are not available... Ever. You have to grow them or totally luck into them if you are a small market team like Buffalo.

Giving up a ton for a #4 D that will likely leave in a year or two is also a bad move right now.

I am a strong believer that if you fix the coaching the other parts will fall into place. Solutions often come from very unlikely sources, but they do come.

I've evaluated a lot of leadership teams and it's often difficult for a group to internally realize that they are lacking great leadership. From the outside, it's all you can see.

We all know that they will need to consolidate young players. My hope is that Adams has been waiting for them to mature a bit more and the right trade targets shake loose. We do know more about guys like Savoie, Kulich, Benson, Johnson and none of them have hurt their value so that's a step in the right direction of addressing leadership.

Player friendly coaches are great. But there needs to be balance. There has to be a culture of accountability and pride driven by success and being part of a tight knit family. The disorganization on ice and lack of success driven pride is most concerning. Those things don't often occur organically in groups lacking great leadership... from an outside perspective

 

[Fearnot]

Hey, with multiple injured defensemen, I'm sure we're all excited for the potential return of Bryson or Stillman...

I'm always down to seeing Stillman get rocked.

 

[Djp]

I agree that the issues on the roster are much bigger than who is playing on the 4th line.

I think heading into the offseason, that most of us agreed that Goalie, Top 4 RHD and remaking the bottom 6 were the obvious roster moves that Adams needed to make. And yet he did none of those.

Why doesn’t Greenway count?
Why doesn’t RyJo count? Most of this board said trade him/ don’t sign.
he signed Levi…but that doesn’t count Either

I agree that if the only difference to the roster over what we actually got is Hathaway over Okposo it's not a big enough change to make things better.

Adams had like 5 or 6 roster moves he should have made, this being just one of them, and he made 0. Hathaway over Okposo is like the low hanging fruit, and Adams didn't even pick that, let alone the more difficult to reach stuff like goalie or top 4 rhd.

like what?

I think my above response to Jim Bob is mostly applicable in response to you too.

To the bolded: This is the roster thread. Adams is responsible for the roster. Can't talk about the roster without some overlap of talking about the guy who is responsible for the roster.

8 of top 9 F were known coming into thr drsft last year. What changes should have been made?

 

[Chainshot]

Time to shake up the lines:

Peterka/Thompson/Tuch
Benson/Mitts/Quinn
Girgensons/Cozens/Greenway
Robinson/Krebs/Okposo

Keeping Mitts and Thompson on same line has reduced us to really one line that can score. Also this ain’t last year’s kid line — break’em up. My only reservation is bumping JJ to first because he really doesn’t deserve it, but I really want to see what Mitts can do for Quinn and Benson offensively. Cozens down to third line to focus on basic, simple hockey because the offense just ain’t there for him so stop forcing it.

It feels like this is the time to give Kulich some time in a more important role as a scoring winger. Then again, that would fly in the face of them using him mostly in Rochester at center. So who knows...

 

[Fearnot]

Almost to 10 wins below league average.
Sens could be almost identical to us once those games in hand are done.

 

[Mattilaus]

Sens could be almost identical to us once those games in hand are done.

They could also be even lower on the chart with how they have been playing

 

[toddkaz]

Playoffs as of Today.

 

[Nikolajs Sillers]

All-time great Freudian typo by our Flames fan visitor.

Edit: FTR, I'm a Power fan. We're expecting too much too soon from him, but I understand the impatience, given his draft pedigree and extension.

Googled FTR. Got answer F..k The Rest

 

[Nikolajs Sillers]

Playoffs as of Today.

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